USA High School Graduation Rates...PROBLEMS?!

[Jerusha]

Unfortunately, if you’re not a parent of kids in the local public schools, the board may not be too receptive to you. That’s not right, of course. Everybody has a right to see that our youth are properly educated, not just those who have kids in the school system. That’s our responsibility as citizens.

And those parents who pay taxes for public education while sending their children to parochial school have a moral responsibility to support adequate funding for public schools, so long as the money is spent responsibly for the benefit of students.

 

[Karin]

Jerusha:

And those parents who pay taxes for public education while sending their children to parochial school have a moral responsibility to support adequate funding for public schools, so long as the money is spent responsibly for the benefit of students.

Vouchers sound like a wonderful thing!
**Our town gets school funding 88% from property taxes and 12% from federal and state sources. With spending for each child at approx. $16,000 that makes for a rather large tax bill! The topper is the education the kids get is sub-standard…why am I paying for that??? On top of paying $7500 for a Catholic high school education for my eldest son…his tuition and my school tax portion of property taxes are just about the same…go figure! **

 

[Karin]

Oh and doesnt the GOVERMENT have a responsibilty to fund its schools properly???

 

[MooCowSteph]

“The parents don’t care” is a universal excuse.

There is a Gresham’s Law in education – bad schools drive out good parents. And then the bad schools claim “the parents don’t care.”

It’s universal because it’s so often true. It’s cultural in so many areas. Take Baltimore City - the parents there just don’t value education. And the ones that do use private schools or move out of the city. Unless we have parents who see the importance of education, there is little the schools can do.

We can throw all the money in the world at Baltimore City public schools and it would do little good. Washington, DC is another example. If I’m not mistaken, they have among the highest, if not the highest, per student budget in the country and it’s one of the lowest preforming systems.

Isidore_AK:

Frankly they would do a lot better if they trimmed the fat from the public schools. Cut the budgets for all extracurricualr arts & sports. I know its harsh, but it shouldn’t be part of the educational system anyway. After school programs can be fee based. I’m sure most schools could probably get local businesses to sponsor sports teams (just like the pee-wee’s & little leagues). Get back to basics.

I agree that we need to “trim the fat” but the FIRST place to cut is administrative. Again using Baltimore City schools (I’m still looking for the actual figure), more than half of their per student budget goes to administrative uses. Half or more of the employees in public schools tend to be non-teaching positions.

And, RE: vouchers, we can complain about the costs, but in many places the per student expenditure is similar in public schools to the tuition rates in private schools.

I remember a news story from a couple of years ago in which is discussed testing a group of teachers’ math and reading skills:

More than half a million Florida students sat in classrooms last year in front of teachers who failed the state’s basic skills tests for teachers.

Many of those students got teachers who struggled to solve high school math problems or whose English skills were so poor, they flunked reading tests designed to measure the very same skills students must master before they can graduate.

These aren’t isolated instances of a few teachers whose test-taking skills don’t match their expertise and training. A Herald-Tribune investigation has found that fully a third of teachers, teachers’ aides and substitutes failed their certification tests at least once.

The Herald-Tribune found teachers who had failed in nearly every school in each of the state’s 67 counties.

 

[Jerusha]

Vouchers sound like a wonderful thing!

I agree with vouchers. However, there are going to be some private schools that will disagree with the loss of control in terms of curriculum that goes with them. Catholic schools don’t have that problem, but others will. Vouchers will RAISE taxes for everyone, because the fincancial load will be distributed to everyone. That is why public schools and parents are opposed.

Oh and doesnt the GOVERMENT have a responsibilty to fund its schools properly???

We, as citizens, are part of the government and its system of checks and balances.

More than half a million Florida students sat in classrooms last year in front of teachers who failed the state’s basic skills tests for teachers.

Shameful.

I agree that we need to “trim the fat” but the FIRST place to cut is administrative. Again using Baltimore City schools (I’m still looking for the actual figure), more than half of their per student budget goes to administrative uses. Half or more of the employees in public schools tend to be non-teaching positions.

Instead of hiring competent, responsible teachers, they hire more administrators to crack the whip on everyone?

If I’m not mistaken, they have among the highest, if not the highest, per student budget in the country and it’s one of the lowest preforming systems.

The politicians and government bigwigs have no investment in the situation.

There is a Gresham’s Law in education – bad schools drive out good parents. And then the bad schools claim “the parents don’t care.”

And further alienate minority/poor/troubled/uneducated parents from the educational process with negative and judgmental attitudes.

 

[Kay_Cee]

Unless you’ve got a school with severe financial problems (not enough books, classrooms, desks, or teachers), throwing money at the problem never works. As a poster above pointed out, a huge chunk of it goes to the administration, not the kids.

All the Catholic schools I’ve been associated with have managed to turn out a top-notch education despite a low dollar per student ratio. But it’s not just that these schools are doing better (they are, in my experience). When parents care enough to pay tuition, they usually care enough to make sure their kids make it to school on time (or just plain make it to school, period), do their homework, respect their teachers, etc. As I’ve stated before, it is the parents who are primarily responsible for the education of their children. Please note that I said *primarily. *Obviously, schools play a significant role, but they’ll never substitute for the love and care parents can give.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Kay Cee:

Unless you’ve got a school with severe financial problems (not enough books, classrooms, desks, or teachers), throwing money at the problem never works. As a poster above pointed out, a huge chunk of it goes to the administration, not the kids.

All the Catholic schools I’ve been associated with have managed to turn out a top-notch education despite a low dollar per student ratio. But it’s not just that these schools are doing better (they are, in my experience). When parents care enough to pay tuition, they usually care enough to make sure their kids make it to school on time (or just plain make it to school, period), do their homework, respect their teachers, etc. As I’ve stated before, it is the parents who are primarily responsible for the education of their children. Please note that I said *primarily. *Obviously, schools play a significant role, but they’ll never substitute for the love and care parents can give.

The problem is, I can show you districts where almost half the parents are illiterate and on welfare. And so are the grandparents and great-grandparents.

It’s very difficult to expect these families to suddenly discover an attitude of respect for education.

Also, look at the pressures around us. Hewlett Packard is running an ad campiagn showing college students tuning out the lecturer to play computer games – cool, man!

 

[Karin]

It would seem that a large percent of parents care about the education or their kids. But I think the tides are turning on this…I think more and more parents are saying it is the schools job. So how do we as a society solve the problem of parents or families not playing an active enough role in their kids education development??? I think if we can solve this problem the education of our kids will greatly improve!!!
In regards to $$$ spent on education look at this article … more money does not buy a better education as some NY schools found out!!! nypost.com/news/regionalnews/50463.htm

 

[siamesecat]

Surprising. MA, where Im from, only gets a 78. I thought we were pretty educated, and yet Nebraska’s graduation rate is better? That almost doesnt make sense. I dont mean to be offensive, but what colleges are there in Nebraska or businesses? New England overall did worse than I thought, although we were terrible. Alabama, Georgia, they FAILED? thats terrible! If I lived there I wouldnt be feeling much ‘southern pride.’ Texas did better than i thought, and CA did worse. Wow, as a country we’re in rough shape. Kudos to Pennsylvania, Nebraska, and those other states that did well. Its pathetic when you think about it. So many kids just dont care at all about grades. I dont know what they think theyre gonna do when theyre older.

 

[Kay_Cee]

vern humphrey:

The problem is, I can show you districts where almost half the parents are illiterate and on welfare. And so are the grandparents and great-grandparents.

It’s very difficult to expect these families to suddenly discover an attitude of respect for education.

True, but that doesn’t mitigate the parents’ responsibility. Unfortunately, in cases like that, the schools need to take over.

One thing schools can do is point out to students what their earning potential will more likely be if they stay in school and do well–and what it will more likely be if they drop out or do poorly.

Also, look at the pressures around us. Hewlett Packard is running an ad campiagn showing college students tuning out the lecturer to play computer games – cool, man!

I can’t begin to tell you how much I hate that commercial.

 

[Karin]

siamesecat:

I dont know what they think theyre gonna do when theyre older.

**Scary thing to think of…but many will be running the goverment!:bigyikes: **

 

[Karin]

Jerusha:

No, you cannot punish kids for academic problems by retention in grade. Adequate remedial programs is the answer. How would you feel being a 16- year old in a classroom with 14-year olds, when your basic problem is something like-- many moves and discontinuities in curriculum, or language differences? Of course they end up dropping out.

**Well I was never in that position…thank GOD! But if I was…I guess i would feel stupid! But then based on your test scores, grades etc. you more than likely are in a remedial class for something or the other (math, english whatever) So IMO it is partly the kids fault (probably not studying & the parents…where are they offering these kids all the help that they can get)…there are many programs out there for this type of problem. **
I think repeating a grade is better than advancing to the next even though you have not mastered what you need…what kind of message does that send…flunk and you can still advance!

 

[TomK]

I think that Bill Cosby’s comments don’t apply only to the Black Community, but all communities.

As long as people who advocate Ebonics, Tupac as equal to Shakespeare are not whistled down by outraged parents, the situation is not likely to improve.

My eldest sons were damaged by the perpetual experimentation in public schools in California. My second son couldn’t truly read until the 4th grade because the school he was assigned to was a “dual-immersion” school whose only practical benefit was to make functional illiterates out of native English speakers, too. At the time, spelling didn’t matter, he never had to write an English paper and no amount of protests to the school mattered because it was a “California Distinguished School.” It’s marks were so abysmal that it should have been shuttered, instead the whole “Dual Immersion” program was expanded from K-3 to the entire school, in spite of a state initiative that barred bi-lingual educatio! The declaration as a “Dual Immersion” school prevented the State from having the authoritiy to go in and seize the school, turn over the staff and start fresh.

The teacher’s unions are a bunch of self-serving hypocrits.

I remember how horrified my grandfather was when I came home one summer from college and asked him to teach me his Gaellic. He told me “You’re in America now.” I am still sad that the language died with him, but can see his point.

My Portuguese grandfather was the same way, the result is that the Portuguese, even though part of Spain until very recently (relatively), do not receive preferential EEOC treatment. They have learned their new mother tongue, assimilated, and mantain their culture through Holy Ghost societies, etc., the families feel the duty to educate their children in their culture’s traditions, they don’t ask the state to bend for them.

We need to look to the success stories of the past to figure out how to brighten the future.

I watched a Disneyland special from the 50s and was amazed to see that the people knew the folk dances from Italy, Mexico and other countries. When the band moved back and forth across culteral lines, these repressed, oppressive people from the 50s could shift with the music. I don’t think today’s “culturally inclusive” society will be able to demonstrate such fluency. Each culture is too busy defending it’s turf and making up self-agrandizing holidays.