USCCB Condemns Separating Immigrant Children from Families

[pnewton]

I misunderstood a pronoun above (they) used without antecedent. The federal government can do things no reputable law enforcement department would do, like sending those accused of misdemeanors straight to a prison, yet one more similarity to totalitarian regimes.

I was referring in my earlier post to how the United States (prior to Trump and by agencies other than ICE), deal with all who are accused of a misdemeanor with punishment up to six months. That is what I thought you meant by “they.”

 

[pnewton]

It is good to seen knowledgeable information here. What you said is one of the issues. Immigration is very, very complex. This particular issue (the thread) though, should not be. Ever moral leader has denounced it as immoral that has spoken. No person in moral leadership is supporting it. Even the Methodist Church has denounced Jeff Sessions and threatened expulsion.

 

[Mi_Rose]

My bishop opposes separating children from their parents. He is my moral leader so that is all I need to know.

 

[Augustinian]

It is good to seen knowledgeable information here. What you said is one of the issues. Immigration is very, very complex.

This issue isn’t about immigrants anyhow. Its about asylum applicants. Someone seeking asylum is hopefully only requesting it for a short time, they aren’t seeking to permanently immigrate at all.

My Iranian friends hope to go back, even though they’ve been in America for more than 35 years.

Determining immigrant status is easy, no judge needed. You either meet the requirements or you don’t. Its more of a nuanced situation for asylum applicants.

 

[Ender]

You missed the context of my remark. Ender was asking me what I propose to do about not being able to screen applicants for asylum. I was answering by saying we do not need to skip screening for anyone if we have enough immigration judges. We were not talking about those that are never caught.

According to the DHS secretary there are 600,000 asylum cases pending. How many judges would have to be hired to get through that backlog within the 20 day period the law allows minors to be detained? If we are not to separate adults from children, and we cannot process applications within 20 days, what are the alternatives? There appear to be two options: admit applicants without screening or separate the minors. Which is your preference?

 

[Ender]

Please reference the source of the statistics.

They appear to be from the DHS secretary.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

LeafByNiggle:

You missed the context of my remark. Ender was asking me what I propose to do about not being able to screen applicants for asylum. I was answering by saying we do not need to skip screening for anyone if we have enough immigration judges. We were not talking about those that are never caught.

According to the DHS secretary there are 600,000 asylum cases pending. How many judges would have to be hired to get through that backlog within the 20 day period the law allows minors to be detained? If we are not to separate adults from children, and we cannot process applications within 20 days, what are the alternatives? There appear to be two options: admit applicants without screening or separate the minors. Which is your preference?

Hire more judges and give priority to cases of asylum by families with young children.

 

[pnewton]

As does mine. He wrote about it a couple of weeks ago. He is normally rather imperturbable, but this really rattled him.

 

[Augustinian]

Hire more judges and give priority to cases of asylum by families with young children.

Doesn’t sound doable to complete within 3 weeks.

The real problem is the incredible number of asylum claims, particularly as past results indicate that the vast majority are going to end up of not having merit, not qualifying.

It just seems to me that this is a clear attempt to overload the system to try and force the American government to just accepting these hundreds of thousands without proper vetting.

 

[blackforest]

The utilitarian tone of this thread is alarming to me and decidedly anti-Catholic. But since we’ve been discussing “burdens” to society, here’s one thought. (Relax, ya’ll. It’s satire). (Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[LeafByNiggle]

LeafByNiggle:

Hire more judges and give priority to cases of asylum by families with young children.

Doesn’t sound doable to complete within 3 weeks.

The real problem is the incredible number of asylum claims, particularly as past results indicate that the vast majority are going to end up of not having merit, not qualifying.

It is a matter of opinion whether that is the “real” problem, or the fact that refugees are fleeing violence and are suffering. Personally I think that is a bigger problem than the inconvenience their presence on earth causes for the US.

It just seems to me that this is a clear attempt to overload the system to try and force the American government to just accepting these hundreds of thousands without proper vetting.

Who is making this supposed “attempt?” Is it some shadowy force that has reminded suffering people that they are suffering? I don’t think they need any reminders of that. The suffering is there whether or not some nameless group wants to overload the system.

 

[Augustinian]

Is it some shadowy force that has reminded suffering people that they are suffering? I don’t think they need any reminders of that.

People want to come to the United States because they think its better here , than where they are at.

I don’t know if they are “suffering” where they are at right now at all, just that they think its better here.

Somewhere along the way people who want to immigrate to the United States found out the golden ticket is to claim Asylum Status instead of coming as an immigrant and the US Government decided to accept asylum applications at the border.

With an asylum application, the key isn’t in proving your case(that’s unlikely), but instead just applying for it. Once applied, they have been given parole during the considerable time it takes to consider their case- and it also gives them time to disappear into the American landscape.

 

[blackforest]

I don’t know if they are “suffering” where they are at right now at all, just that they think its better here.

If this were the case, they’d load up the air conditioned family minivan, or hop on a commercial carrier and --whoopsie daisy! – overstay their visas.

Do you have any idea was is involved in a desert border crossing? Are you aware of the rotting corpses on the Mexican side of the fence - dead from dehydration, heat stroke, or any number of desert dangers?

Your conspiracy theory about people pretending to be poor and oppressed so that they can lie about needing asylum has zero merit or support.

 

[MaryClare]

This is my opinion on the issue. When someone crosses the border, you first have to assess that the criminals doing this are not a threat to the safety of others. You have to assess each case on an individual basis. Sometimes people smuggle drugs and illegal things. Sometimes children are kidnapped. If the kids have to be seperated for their safety then they should be. Its not like we are torturing the children. Its for their welfare and this is highly misunderstood because of propganda that is spread by the media.

 

[blackforest]

You propose some commonsense border screening that even the most liberal among us would like to see - e.g. making sure there aren’t drugs or kidnapped children.

But remember that in the context of this thread, many if not all people that we’re discussing are not “criminals doing this” but people legally petitioning for asylum.

 

[MaryClare]

As they walk through the border you know this because of osmosis or something? Each case must be investigated.

 

[blackforest]

Keeping up with world news doesn’t require osmosis. Or snarky replies.

Do some reading. Starting with this thread and its many, many, many links.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

LeafByNiggle:

Is it some shadowy force that has reminded suffering people that they are suffering? I don’t think they need any reminders of that.

People want to come to the United States because they think its better here , than where they are at.

I don’t know if they are “suffering” where they are at right now at all, just that they think its better here.

Then you should read some of the case histories and learn about that suffering instead of ignoring it.

 

[o_mlly]

While protecting our borders is important, we can and must do better as a government, and as a society, to find other ways to ensure that safety.

Often, what we ought to do as a community is morally the same as what we ought to do individually.

• The distribution of wealth and security, personal and financial, in your neighborhood is vastly unequal.
• You are doing better than most. You and your spouse have several children for whom you presently protect and provide.
• A woman and several children (juveniles to infants) knock on your door claiming to be abused by their husband/father. They want to live in your house.
• What do you do?
• After looking in your cupboard and seeing you have enough, you say, “Yes.”
• Later, another woman and several children knock on your door claiming to be abused by their husband/father. They also want to live in your house. You look down the street and see more women and children making their way to your house.
• Your spouse and children tell you they are uneasy that so many strangers are in the house.
• What do you do?

 

[Augustinian]

Then you should read some of the case histories and learn about that suffering instead of ignoring it.

Anecdotal stories are fine, I have no doubt that such cases exist and some of them are legitimate.

My question is why the sudden spike off the charts in the number of asylum requests- far beyond what the government can process- at this point in time? Is the world this much worse abroad, or is the US this much better under President Trump than we were just a few years ago?

Or is there something else at work here?

What should America do, just schedule people for their asylum hearings when they come in, and ask them to show up 3 years or 5 years in the future to have the determination made? And then, if it turns out they are human traffickers associated with MS 13, they can be tossed out then, with full due process?