Using the Bible to support your belief and faith

[PJM]

=John17 3;11649088]Hello,
My name is Stephen and I was raised a Catholic in a very Catholic neighborhood in Philadelphia, Pa (born in 1950)
I am the product of Catholic grade school and H.S. and I can NEVER remember being taught or encouraged or even suggestions to open the Bible for any reason. The only time I ever saw the Bible in our home was for display at Christmas or Easter. Growing up in this environment I was influenced by a large family and a neighborhood of large families who accepted the “Catholic” way of life. I witnessed and participated in many things the Bible outright condemns such as prejudice, drunkenness, violence in the home, school, and in the streets. I was beaten by the nuns, the priests and my parents especially when they found out the nuns and priests beat me. In high school my father told the priest that if I step out of line you have my permission to beat the “****” out of him. (Thanks Dad)
But what was amazing is this was all accepted as “normal”.
So my interest in the Bible never left me and much later it was boosted by a priest who visited my paratroopers in Nam to go out and “get a few” after saying mass and communion. So it was not until the 80’s that I took a serious look at what the Bible says and what I believed. Needless to say I was amazed, shocked and at times humiliated to think my “normal world” could never find the smallest blessing. Speaking to a monsignor I was told that if I could not read Greek, I could not understand the Bible. So I had to search elsewhere, and I did. Most pastors or ministers did not want to take the time to answer my questions. So my research and study began and continuing.
I have been reading a lot of your questions and answers and noticed answers based on everything from the Bible to fantasy. But seldom based on true application of scripture.
I have a big problem with the “believe whatever you want as long as you are a good person” because I grew up with that and a lot of good people were doing things not approved by God but blessed by common acceptance. For example: pre-marital sex and living together were taboo then but accepted now, the same with Gays, tattoos, touching the communion host, sexual abusers being winked at by the church and Catholics who turned their heads, and so many other serious changes in acceptance and attitude.

So now when I compare what the Bible says and what the Church teaches and how Catholics act I can not help to question, why the Bible is even quoted when supporting beliefs. Jesus said, “Why call me Lord if you do not do as I say?” I believe if the Bible was taught at an early age there would have been a serious difference in the world.
Would any older person feel like responding to this because you may relate to my experiences and observations?
I hope it is understood I ask in a conversational manner and do not wish to argue.
Thank you

Hi John,

I’m 69 so I recon I qualify. And like to I have 12 years of solid catholic Education [G-1-12]

Their is a reason [actually 2 that I can think of for this]

[1] Romans10: 17: So faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes by the **preaching **of Christ"

2nd. Peter 3: 14-17 “Therefore, beloved, since you wait for these, be zealous to be found by him without spot or blemish, and at peace. And count the forbearance of our Lord as salvation. So also our beloved brother Paul wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, speaking of this as he does in all his letters. There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, beware lest you be carried away with the error of lawless men and lose your own stability"
.

2nd. Peter 1: 16-21 “You will do well to pay attention to this as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, because no prophecy ever came by the impulse of man, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God

[2] Blessed with a Catholic education we went to daily Mass and DID hear it proclaimed by the priest. Out 3 year reading cycle exoses the entire bible. So how many times did you hear my friend John

God Bless you,
Patrick

 

[bobbi_corona]

I must agree with you. My parent left the church after Vatican II and took us four kids with them. I am the only one who returned at 40.

I recently read a book about how to read scripture written by a Mr. Martin, who is Catholic.
He wrote this book for both Catholics, Protestants, or anyone who had interest in how to read the bible in a personal and effective way.

It has transformed my walk with Jesus. Jesus actually loves unworthy, sinful me.
I don’t know what kind of Catholic I am anymore.

I don’t care if the pope said that all can go to heaven, even if they are not Christian, if that is what he really said… My salvation is not based on a pope’s view or a priest.

I am honored to receive the Eucharist every Sunday and believe that it is truly the Body of Christ, and not just a symbol as 50% of catholics believe. It would deeply grieve me if I could no longer receive because I do not believe in the hierarchy of the clergy or their go between for me and my salvation.

But I must remain authentic to my beliefs and experience, and not be a square peg trying to fit into a round hole.

With all respect,

God Bless!

 

[Prayer_Warrior]

Dear John,

Please go to this link, which is the first page of the Catholic Catechism. Go to the bottom of the page, to see the Scriptural references. There are many. Then, click on next page and do the same. Repeat about a thousand times because the Catechism is long. You will find that the Scriptures are used on every page and there are thousands in our teaching.

Furthermore, the Catholic Church has actually organized the liturgy of the Word so that almost every single verse of Scripture is systematically read at the Mass over the course of three years. No other protestant church, to my knowledge, proclaims the whole Bible the way the Catholic Church does.

Please check the history of my posts, and you will see that I am one of MANY Catholics here that regularly quote from the Scriptures to support our position. I’ve been studying Scripture for many years and you will find that I am not unique among Catholics here… or in my parish here in sunny southern California. You may think we don’t read or quote the Scriptures, but you are wrong.

Also, for your education, you may want to read what the Church teaches about the Scriptures not only in the Catechism, but in Dei Verbum.

 

[po18guy]

Hello,
My name is Stephen and I was raised a Catholic in a very Catholic neighborhood in Philadelphia, Pa (born in 1950)
I am the product of Catholic grade school and H.S. and I can NEVER remember being taught or encouraged or even suggestions to open the Bible for any reason. The only time I ever saw the Bible in our home was for display at Christmas or Easter. Growing up in this environment I was influenced by a large family and a neighborhood of large families who accepted the “Catholic” way of life. I witnessed and participated in many things the Bible outright condemns such as prejudice, drunkenness, violence in the home, school, and in the streets. I was beaten by the nuns, the priests and my parents especially when they found out the nuns and priests beat me. In high school my father told the priest that if I step out of line you have my permission to beat the “****” out of him. (Thanks Dad)
But what was amazing is this was all accepted as “normal”.
So my interest in the Bible never left me and much later it was boosted by a priest who visited my paratroopers in Nam to go out and “get a few” after saying mass and communion. So it was not until the 80’s that I took a serious look at what the Bible says and what I believed. Needless to say I was amazed, shocked and at times humiliated to think my “normal world” could never find the smallest blessing. Speaking to a monsignor I was told that if I could not read Greek, I could not understand the Bible. So I had to search elsewhere, and I did. Most pastors or ministers did not want to take the time to answer my questions. So my research and study began and continuing.
I have been reading a lot of your questions and answers and noticed answers based on everything from the Bible to fantasy. But seldom based on true application of scripture.
I have a big problem with the “believe whatever you want as long as you are a good person” because I grew up with that and a lot of good people were doing things not approved by God but blessed by common acceptance. For example: pre-marital sex and living together were taboo then but accepted now, the same with Gays, tattoos, touching the communion host, sexual abusers being winked at by the church and Catholics who turned their heads, and so many other serious changes in acceptance and attitude.

So now when I compare what the Bible says and what the Church teaches and how Catholics act I can not help to question, why the Bible is even quoted when supporting beliefs. Jesus said, “Why call me Lord if you do not do as I say?” I believe if the Bible was taught at an early age there would have been a serious difference in the world.
Would any older person feel like responding to this because you may relate to my experiences and observations?
I hope it is understood I ask in a conversational manner and do not wish to argue.
Thank you

Sounds like the book you were raised by was “The Shining” rather than the bible! In your case, Catholicism was used as a weapon against you, whereas it should have been an example given you.

What you have observed, to your great dismay, is hypocrisy. What you are called to do is to pray for them, and to live Christ’s commands as revealed in the scriptures and by the Church’s teaching. Do you have a catechism? Excellent companion to your bible. In truth, you are called to be a good example to those you are speaking of.

The Catholics who struggle to keep Christ’s commands, who regularly partake of the Sacraments, and who live unremarkable but charitable lives are the least noticed. The faith of obedient Catholics is often revealed in the still, small lives they lead. They do not need to loudly assert “Well, I’m Catholic, but I don’t…(blah blah blah)…”

If you want to feel close to God once again, there is no better way on earth than to spend time with Christ in the Blessed Sacrament. Find out when your local parish offers adoration, or holy hour. Then go, take your bible, and read the scriptures in Christ’s presence. You may not believe in the true presence. However, tell the Lord that you struggle with that belief. And, as Fr. Benedict Groeschel says, “When you are aware that He is there, you will be changed.”

 

[PJM]

=Prayer_Warrior;11768996]Dear John,

Please go to this link, which is the first page of the Catholic Catechism. Go to the bottom of the page, to see the Scriptural references. There are many. Then, click on next page and do the same. Repeat about a thousand times because the Catechism is long. You will find that the Scriptures are used on every page and there are thousands in our teaching.

Furthermore, the Catholic Church has actually organized the liturgy of the Word so that almost every single verse of Scripture is systematically read at the Mass over the course of three years. No other protestant church, to my knowledge, proclaims the whole Bible the way the Catholic Church does.

Please check the history of my posts, and you will see that I am one of MANY Catholics here that regularly quote from the Scriptures to support our position. I’ve been studying Scripture for many years and you will find that I am not unique among Catholics here… or in my parish here in sunny southern California. You may think we don’t read or quote the Scriptures, but you are wrong.

Also, for your education, you may want to read what the Church teaches about the Scriptures not only in the Catechism, but in Dei Verbum.

I can add testimony to this:

There is a compendium book that HAS all of the footnote printed out [some 300+ pages] and I have read it along with the CCC. The Bible is a regular reference.

 

[fhansen]

Hello,
My name is Stephen and I was raised a Catholic in a very Catholic neighborhood in Philadelphia, Pa (born in 1950)
I am the product of Catholic grade school and H.S. and I can NEVER remember being taught or encouraged or even suggestions to open the Bible for any reason. The only time I ever saw the Bible in our home was for display at Christmas or Easter. Growing up in this environment I was influenced by a large family and a neighborhood of large families who accepted the “Catholic” way of life. I witnessed and participated in many things the Bible outright condemns such as prejudice, drunkenness, violence in the home, school, and in the streets. I was beaten by the nuns, the priests and my parents especially when they found out the nuns and priests beat me. In high school my father told the priest that if I step out of line you have my permission to beat the “****” out of him. (Thanks Dad)
But what was amazing is this was all accepted as “normal”.
So my interest in the Bible never left me and much later it was boosted by a priest who visited my paratroopers in Nam to go out and “get a few” after saying mass and communion. So it was not until the 80’s that I took a serious look at what the Bible says and what I believed. Needless to say I was amazed, shocked and at times humiliated to think my “normal world” could never find the smallest blessing. Speaking to a monsignor I was told that if I could not read Greek, I could not understand the Bible. So I had to search elsewhere, and I did. Most pastors or ministers did not want to take the time to answer my questions. So my research and study began and continuing.
I have been reading a lot of your questions and answers and noticed answers based on everything from the Bible to fantasy. But seldom based on true application of scripture.
I have a big problem with the “believe whatever you want as long as you are a good person” because I grew up with that and a lot of good people were doing things not approved by God but blessed by common acceptance. For example: pre-marital sex and living together were taboo then but accepted now, the same with Gays, tattoos, touching the communion host, sexual abusers being winked at by the church and Catholics who turned their heads, and so many other serious changes in acceptance and attitude.

So now when I compare what the Bible says and what the Church teaches and how Catholics act I can not help to question, why the Bible is even quoted when supporting beliefs. Jesus said, “Why call me Lord if you do not do as I say?” I believe if the Bible was taught at an early age there would have been a serious difference in the world.
Would any older person feel like responding to this because you may relate to my experiences and observations?
I hope it is understood I ask in a conversational manner and do not wish to argue.
Thank you

Sort of a ridiculous statement, don’t you think, when the CC is one of the few Christian groups brave enough to take an official stand against homosexuality, abortion, contraception, war, etc. And the truth is that the bible is easily used and abused to support whatever ideas people want, including some of the absurd theology of the WTBTS.

 

[DelsonJacobs]

The faith and teachings of the Catholic Church are not based on the Bible. Our religion’s foundation is based on an epiphany in the Person of Jesus Christ. His life and teachings became the basis for the Church, and faithful members of the Church passed these teachings down to others, some though not all in the form of writings. The Christian Scriptures are therefore a product of the Church, but not its basis. Jesus came first, the Church was founded by him, and faithful members thereof produced the works that would be included by the Church into the New Testament.

This is similar to the religion of the Jews which is also not based on the Bible. It is founded on the theophany and covenant promises made to Abraham and later the theophany experienced by and covenant made with Abraham’s descendants at Mount Sinai via Moses. The writings that would become the Hebrew Scriptures or the Tanakh are a product of Judaism written by faithful members thereof.

These religions are not based on the Bible. The Bible is based on these religions.

These religions came first and produced the people who were inspired to write the works that would be collected into the canon of Scripture.

These works are not exhaustive in the sense that they do not contain everything and every doctrine embraced by the religions that produced them. For example, they do not contain the guidelines used by Judaism and the Church that were employed to select which books would belong to the canon of the Bible, neither do they contain the official and accepted lists. These guidelines and lists belong to the deposit of faith of the individual religious bodies.

Since these religions did not see that anyone would be using their religious texts outside of membership in their religions they did not add to the canon other texts like the Midrash or the testimony of the Church Fathers. To the religions that created them, the Scriptures are not the foundation of their belief systems but a reflection of that belief. They are the written part of the complete revelation that God has entrusted to them, which also includes the liturgy and customs taught them as this revelation unfolded over the centuries.

For us religion is more than living up to what one finds in Scripture. Since Scripture is the product of living religions that both inscribed and developed these sacred texts, living up to our faith encompasses much more than what you can read in the Bible. Our actions are not guided by the written revelation of our faith alone, because then we would be living up to just half of what we believe in. To judge us by what you read in Scripture is to judge us by only part of the full deposit of faith.

Your religion may be based solely on the Bible.

Our religion existed before any word of the Bible was written.

Your religion may look to Scripture texts to support beliefs.

Our religion came from the mouth of the Son of God, and we believed in what he said before any of it was written. We believed even in those things which were not included in Scripture.

Do you recall that Law of Moses was given to the Israelites from the mouth of God before it was written down? Were not the Israelites charged with being obedient to their religion before they had anything in writing? Were they not charged with sinning against the Ten Commandments by worshiping the golden calf at the foot of the mountain even though they had nothing in writing? Why even Moses smashed the the first tablets written on by God’s finger due to their sin, and the sinners were condemned by the Law for failure to live up to their religion, all this without anything being in writing. And why was this so?

This was a pattern to show that true religion is not based on what is written. Instead what is written is based on true religion. True religion comes first.

While you may judge us for what you believe is not following Scripture, that is only because you believe religion must be based on Scripture.

Your religion may be based on Scripture alone, but our religion and our Scripture is based on God.

Your religion is based on the Bible. Ours is based on Jesus.

Your religion is based on quoting texts. Our religion wrote the texts.

The texts you read are a reflection of our religion.

Without our religion you are left only with a reflection. And anyone who reads a reflection will only get things backwards.

 

[PJM]

=DelsonJacobs;11781542]The faith and teachings of the Catholic Church are not based on the Bible. Our religion’s foundation is based on an epiphany in the Person of Jesus Christ. His life and teachings became the basis for the Church, and faithful members of the Church passed these teachings down to others, some though not all in the form of writings. The Christian Scriptures are therefore a product of the Church, but not its basis. Jesus came first, the Church was founded by him, and faithful members thereof produced the works that would be included by the Church into the New Testament.

This is similar to the religion of the Jews which is also not based on the Bible. It is founded on the theophany and covenant promises made to Abraham and later the theophany experienced by and covenant made with Abraham’s descendants at Mount Sinai via Moses. The writings that would become the Hebrew Scriptures or the Tanakh are a product of Judaism written by faithful members thereof.

These religions are not based on the Bible. The Bible is based on these religions.

These religions came first and produced the people who were inspired to write the works that would be collected into the canon of Scripture.

These works are not exhaustive in the sense that they do not contain everything and every doctrine embraced by the religions that produced them. For example, they do not contain the guidelines used by Judaism and the Church that were employed to select which books would belong to the canon of the Bible, neither do they contain the official and accepted lists. These guidelines and lists belong to the deposit of faith of the individual religious bodies.

Since these religions did not see that anyone would be using their religious texts outside of membership in their religions they did not add to the canon other texts like the Midrash or the testimony of the Church Fathers. To the religions that created them, the Scriptures are not the foundation of their belief systems but a reflection of that belief. They are the written part of the complete revelation that God has entrusted to them, which also includes the liturgy and customs taught them as this revelation unfolded over the centuries.

For us religion is more than living up to what one finds in Scripture. Since Scripture is the product of living religions that both inscribed and developed these sacred texts, living up to our faith encompasses much more than what you can read in the Bible. Our actions are not guided by the written revelation of our faith alone, because then we would be living up to just half of what we believe in. To judge us by what you read in Scripture is to judge us by only part of the full deposit of faith.

Your religion may be based solely on the Bible.

Our religion existed before any word of the Bible was written.

Your religion may look to Scripture texts to support beliefs.

Our religion came from the mouth of the Son of God, and we believed in what he said before any of it was written. We believed even in those things which were not included in Scripture.

Do you recall that Law of Moses was given to the Israelites from the mouth of God before it was written down? Were not the Israelites charged with being obedient to their religion before they had anything in writing? Were they not charged with sinning against the Ten Commandments by worshiping the golden calf at the foot of the mountain even though they had nothing in writing? Why even Moses smashed the the first tablets written on by God’s finger due to their sin, and the sinners were condemned by the Law for failure to live up to their religion, all this without anything being in writing. And why was this so?

This was a pattern to show that true religion is not based on what is written. Instead what is written is based on true religion. True religion comes first.

While you may judge us for what you believe is not following Scripture, that is only because you believe religion must be based on Scripture.

Your religion may be based on Scripture alone, but our religion and our Scripture is based on God.

Your religion is based on the Bible. Ours is based on Jesus.

Your religion is based on quoting texts. Our religion wrote the texts.

The texts you read are a reflection of our religion.

Without our religion you are left only with a reflection. And anyone who reads a reflection will only get things backwards.

WELL DONE,

Thank you

 

[po18guy]

The texts you read are a reflection of our religion.

Without our religion you are left only with a reflection. And anyone who reads a reflection will only get things backwards.

Very well and clearly expressed. Your reflection analogy reminds of Paul’s words: “For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall understand fully, even as I have been fully understood.”