Utah, USA: Uproar and apologies when public school teacher forced Catholic student to wipe Ash Wednesday cross off his forehead

[ewohdrol]

You think this is dramatic? Imagine if a Muslim girl were forced to remove her head scarf! The school would be sued for religious discrimination.

Yes I think it is being dramatic.

I doubt there are any professional workers in the western world wouldn’t know what a hijab signifies.

I imagine there are many who have no exposure to Ash Wednesday thus wouldn’t immediately understand ashes on a kids forehead.

They are not comparable examples.

The school called the bishop to reapply ashes. They apologised instantly. They called the family. It was an honest mistake. What else did you expect them to do? Is your answer really to sue? Who exaxtly is that going to benefit?

Let’s not make this bigger than it needs to be. Intent is everything here. I doubt God is too troubled by this in the scheme of things going on in the world.

 

[SugarMagnolia]

This story takes place in the United States. Since when was the United States a place where everyone was familiar with Islamic customs, but Christianity is a novelty? I think most people in the United States do know what the cross signifies.

And you’re forgetting the teacher’s cruelty in shaming the boy for being Catholic.

 

[vz71]

How did they pass the certification exam? How did they pass the classes they had to take in college? I call BS on this story.

Don’t know and don’t know.
Like I said, I considered it a life lesson.
It doesn’t matter what certs or diplomas you possess, it only matters what the employee can demonstrate.

As for your disbelief.
My parents didn’t believe either, but did after they met her.
I don’t know what ever came of it, I was moved on to other classes and never saw the teacher again.

 

[vz71]

I am not interested in exploring special cases with you, it is off topic.

You disagree, fine.
Your only argument is special pleading.

Shaky, but I am not interested.

 

[ewohdrol]

This story takes place in the United States. Since when was the United States a place where everyone was familiar with Islamic customs, but Christianity is a novelty? I think most people in the United States do know what the cross signifies.

Except the cross rarely looks like a cross. More a smudge.

And she didn’t shame him for being catholic. You’re putting more emotion into it than the article suggests.

 

[DarkLight]

This story takes place in the United States. Since when was the United States a place where everyone was familiar with Islamic customs, but Christianity is a novelty? I think most people in the United States do know what the cross signifies.

Ash wednesday crosses often don’t look clearly like crosses - and very many christian denominations don’t celebrate ash wednesday. Most people know about headscarves because they’ve been in the news. And because most hijabi women wear them every day, which does make them more memorable.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I liked the previous comment made that brought attention to the fact that the child received candy on a day of fasting. I guess he waited until the next day to eat it.

The child is underage for fasting rules in USA. You don’t have to abstain until you are 14 and you don’t have to fast until you are 18. So this kid wasn’t bound by any sort of fast and could eat the candy.

The rules presumably are made with the understanding that restricting the food intake of growing children is not a good idea.

 

[Le_Cracquere]

I hate to say this … but to be perfectly frank, the hijab is a better-known practice in America than Catholic Ash Wednesday practices are. I knew what Muslim women wore on their heads from a fairly young age. I was nearly thirty before I saw some fellow on the TV with ashes on his forehead, and had no idea what he thought he was doing.

Probably best to give the Utah teacher the benefit of the doubt. If I’d been a teacher in my twenties, I might well have acted as she did … not out of any malice, but because Catholicism is nearly an unknown quantity outside of NE and Midwest U.S. cities where it’s taken for granted. It’s scarcely the fault of people outside of those hothouse environs that Catholic practices are so unknown … quite the opposite, I’d say.

 

[poche]

The United States is a predominantly Protestant country.

 

[Mfrankie]

Yes I did forget about that. It was a while since I was that age.

 

[Elf01]

You think this is dramatic? Imagine if a Muslim girl were forced to remove her head scarf! The school would be sued for religious discrimination. Probably everyone at the school would be forced to take sensitivity training.

If it was me or a child of mine I would look into it.

I hate to say this … but to be perfectly frank, the hijab is a better-known practice in America than Catholic Ash Wednesday practices are. I knew what Muslim women wore on their heads from a fairly young age. I was nearly thirty before I saw some fellow on the TV with ashes on his forehead, and had no idea what he thought he was doing.

The student tried to explain.

 

[lilypadrees]

By “state prison workers,” are you referring to those who work in the public school system? Or to actual prison?

Your post with those comments has been deleted. So I’m not sure what you’re referring to.

 

[lilypadrees]

When my mother was in school, she saw kids with ashes on their foreheads and always had the urge to say, “You’ve got dirt on your forehead.” But she didn’t want to embarrass them.

Unlike my mother who was from a small you which didn’t have a Catholic Church, there are at least 23 Catholic Churches in the child’s location. It’s not like he and his family were the only Catholics in town.

 

[esieffe]

Well, as is often said around here, there’s such a thing as culpable ignorance. The teacher admitted to not having read the First Amendment, which is an astonishing admission for an education professional to make. Plus, wiping it off in front of the whole class? No, I don’t see this as quite so innocent a mistake. You don’t shame a kid in front of the whole class, especially in the wake of his having brought up his religion.

I work in education. You don’t dare take such things into your hands. The students explanation was more than enough for the teach to consult with the principal, department head or others before taking any action. We walk on egg shells, but that is the job.

Having said that however, I would have been satisfied with the teacher’s apology. I think it was helpful though that this Catholic practice has been publicly protected, more or less. It is about time that the machinery of the public school system finally stand up for Catholic practice and tradition.

 

[SugarMagnolia]

My point is that Catholic Christianity is hardly more foreign to Americans than Islam. Are there places in America where people see women wear Hijab everyday, yet have never seen Catholics with ashy smudges on their foreheads?

 

[SugarMagnolia]

Is Utah a predominantly Muslim state? I never pictured it that way but maybe it is. I live in the Northeast and I never saw a hijab when I was growing up. I saw other Christians, Jews, and occasionally Hindus, but never women in hijabs. Nowadays I see them a lot.

 

[DarkLight]

I’m saying it’s more likely they didn’t notice the ashes enough to realize it was a thing. If you don’t know it’s easy to assume ashes are just a smudge that the person hasn’t noticed. With hijab it’s all over the news, so people probably know even if they haven’t personally seen it.

Edit: Utah is predominantly Mormon, and they don’t use ashes.

 

[SugarMagnolia]

Another poster says this:

there are at least 23 Catholic Churches in the child’s location. It’s not like he and his family were the only Catholics in town.

So it seems Catholics are not really rare there.

Perhaps more importantly, the student explained what the ashes were. At that point, the teacher could no longer claim that she did not know what they were. She had just been educated. If she doubted the student and thought he might be lying, it was easy to check. She could have taken a few seconds to google “catholic ash wednesday.” Or she could have asked her principal what to do. The fact that she didn’t make even the slightest attempt to verify the student’s explanation suggests that she accepted his explanation but found Catholic custom “inappropriate.” If a teacher found a Muslim girl’s hijab “inappropriate,” that teacher would be called an Islamophobe. So that makes his teacher a Catholic-ophobe.

 

[angel12]

Catholicism is nearly an unknown quantity outside of NE and Midwest U.S. cities where it’s taken for granted. It’s scarcely the fault of people outside of those hothouse environs that Catholic practices are so unknown …

Not true at all. I’m guessing you don’t have any familiarity with southwestern states.

 

[Elf01]

Google would have confirmed that the custom exists. The teacher doesn’t need to understand it.