vaccines!

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sherimarie

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I do believe we need to discuss this more, not less! Peacefully as possible (I don’t care how jacked-up you get but apparently that’s frowned upon here!)

Have you heard there are fetal cells in some vaccines and do you think that this is widely known?
 
As pointed out to you in the other thread you started in Family Life, it is NOT appropriate to say there are fetal cells in vaccines. There are cells from lines that were developed from children, but the vaccine components themselves were never, ever part of a child.

The children from whom these cell lines are derived were also not aborted for the purpose of medical research and experimentation, but were obtained afterward.

It’s still unfortunate, and sad, and yes, morally wrong on the part of the scientists who did this, but if we are going to effect change we need to make sure we are speaking precisely about this issue. When I brought this up with my kids’ pediatrician, he had already heard what you said several times, and had asked his pharmaceutical rep who assured him it wasn’t true. However, when I clarified what I actually meant, he could revise his question to the rep at the pharmaceutical rep, who then (thankfully honestly) answered yes, that was true. But he could say no when the doctor asked him, “Are there fetal cells in this vaccine?”
 
Thanks for that…

I think it would help to get the info out there more. Children of God for life do a great job w/ research. It’s too bad no one seems to care…
 
Thank you for this info.I read an article posted on Lifesite News by Jill Stanek that led me to believe these vaccines were developed directly from cells of aborted fetuses.
Having said that,another concern is,based on comprehensive data from several different countries ,including the USA,that the rise in autism is directly related to these vaccines.As many as one in one hundred fifty children is diagnosed with autism. This spike manifested in the late seventies,when this formula replaced animal cells.Also an increased incidence of leukemia and lymphoma in children.
 
Thank you for this info.I read an article posted on Lifesite News by Jill Stanek that led me to believe these vaccines were developed directly from cells of aborted fetuses.

Having said that,another concern is,based on comprehensive data from several different countries ,including the USA,that the rise in autism is directly related to these vaccines.As many as one in one hundred fifty children is diagnosed with autism. This spike manifested in the late seventies,when this formula replaced animal cells.Also an increased incidence of leukemia and lymphoma in children.
There is no causal link between autism and vaccines. Multiple quality studies have shown this. The original claimant has been discredited.

autismspeaks.org/science/policy-statements/information-about-vaccines-and-autism

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MMR_vaccine_controversy

nytimes.com/2011/04/24/magazine/mag-24Autism-t.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
 
There is no causal link between autism and vaccines. Multiple quality studies have shown this. The original claimant has been discredited.

autismspeaks.org/science/policy-statements/information-about-vaccines-and-autism

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MMR_vaccine_controversy

nytimes.com/2011/04/24/magazine/mag-24Autism-t.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
Yes I am aware that the original claim re the binding material in vaccines has been debunked.This article I mentioned in my prior post is referencing the spike in autism after the use of fetal cells was implemented.
I also know that the spectrum has been broadened re autism,which might explain the increase.So even with that,I have to wonder if there is a hidden agenda at play.
 
I do believe we need to discuss this more, not less! Peacefully as possible (I don’t care how jacked-up you get but apparently that’s frowned upon here!)

Have you heard there are fetal cells in some vaccines and do you think that this is widely known?
Yes, cells derived from two aborted fetuses are used in the production of some vaccines.

No, those cells are not present in the vaccines. The vaccines consist of virus (or virus fragments?) which are either the disease virus or a closely related virus. Your immune system, or your child’s, responds to the vaccine virus, developing immunity to the disease virus.

Where do the fetal cells come into the story? They are used to grow the virus. The virus needs human host cells in order to multiply. Why fetal cells? I don’t know. Maybe they are more adaptable. Anyway, the produced virus is separated by some stages of purification and filtration, and is further processed to make the vaccine.

In summary, the human cells, in this case cells from aborted fetuses, are used as a means for producing the vaccine, but their presence is neither necessary nor desired in the vaccine.

This is not to minimize the moral issue. That does not depend on the presence or absence of human cells in the vaccine.
 
cogforlife.org/autism/

This link is from a catholic org. it shows charts that prove that there is a link to vaccines and autism. I do believe that there is a link, I have seen that with a child I know, but I had to see the charts in order to believe it. The charts rise in the same way for every state and country that vacs. are introduced in. You can see for yourself at the cogfl web site.

I think we should just agree to say that we are injecting the kids w/ another persons DNA. That simplifies it so everyone can understand. The baby was aborted and used for scientific rreasons. You have a moral problem with that or you don’t.
 
cogforlife.org/autism/

This link is from a catholic org. it shows charts that prove …
“To prove” means that the issue is beyond doubt. Such a claim is beyond the current scope, and totally off topic, as this is about the use of fetal cells in vaccines, not the general anti-vax, pro-vax hoopla. In any case, it takes little time to spot the logical disconnect in that article.

Rather than look for places that link something with some Catholic in it, best just to go to the source. The Catholic Church. Here is the answer to the OP question from the Pontifical Council for Life.
As regards the diseases against which there are no alternative vaccines which are available and ethically acceptable, it is right to abstain from using these vaccines if it can be done without causing children, and indirectly the population as a whole, to undergo significant risks to their health. However, if the latter are exposed to considerable dangers to their health, vaccines with moral problems pertaining to them may also be used on a temporary basis. The moral reason is that the duty to avoid passive material cooperation is not obligatory if there is grave inconvenience. Moreover, we find, in such a case, a. proportional reason, in order to accept the use of these vaccines in the presence of the danger of favouring the spread of the pathological agent, due to the lack of vaccination of children. This is particularly true in the case of vaccination against German measles15.
cogforlife.org/vaticanresponse.htm
 
No, please, look at the charts. I know it takes a long time to sort it all out, but it is beyond a doubt if you look at the charts.

Then tell me what you think.
 
No, please, look at the charts. I know it takes a long time to sort it all out, but it is beyond a doubt if you look at the charts.

Then tell me what you think.
Your link has no chart. No chart can relate causation though. In any case, autism is not a moral topic here.
 
cogforlife.org/autism/

This link is from a catholic org. it shows charts that prove that there is a link to vaccines and autism. I do believe that there is a link, I have seen that with a child I know, but I had to see the charts in order to believe it. The charts rise in the same way for every state and country that vacs. are introduced in. You can see for yourself at the cogfl web site.
What you can see at this site (which presents “data” of seriously questionable integrity) is that, by their own admission, rates of autism coincide with a rise in the use of certain vaccines.

That’s if you believe their (so-called) data.

Best case, giving them every benefit of the doubt, correlation ain’t causation, as every real scientist (and everyone with an ounce of common sense) knows.
 
So you people won’t except data from the cdc? And a graph that shows the start point for the new vaccines and the autism rate rate rising in unison in every state and country where they are introduced is simply what…?

Causation is explained nicely in the June 2013 newsletter.

It makes sense to me. Besides countering with a denial of facts, do you have any better argument?
 
Correlation may point to causation.
Correlation can also point to a third variable that contributes to both of the other two in some way.

Like maybe vaccines get introduced to countries as they begin to modernize. And modernizing also brings more exposure to some chemical that causes autism. So the vaccine rate and the autism rate go up simultaneously, but it’s really the modernization trend that’s behind both.

That might not be the clearest example ever, but the point is – as many others have already said – correlation is not causation and there is absolutely no scientific proof that vaccines cause autism.
 
The rise in cases of autism could be entirely explained by the fact that the diagnostic criteria has been broadened over the years, and that more parents are aware of it and getting their kids tested.
 
The rise in cases of autism could be entirely explained by the fact that the diagnostic criteria has been broadened over the years, and that more parents are aware of it and getting their kids tested.
This is a valid point.Yet I have to wonder,why the spectrum was broadened to include even the most nuanced symptoms?Is there an agenda in place?
 
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