Vacetomy-Tubal Ligation

[nodito]

Do I agree that the only possible posts on CAF are ones offering an absolute pronouncement on catholic morals? No, that’s a strange bar to hold people to. I’m watching a concurrent thread where a lady wishing to delay pregnancy is being driven nearly to a nervous breakdown and spousal separation by too many people offering moral absolutes without proper pastoral counseling. Without knowing her full situation, it is inappropriate for this to be happening. On this thread, I also saw many people automatically tell the questioner to use NFP, which is a medical recommendation, without providing the appropriate medical and pastoral counseling for his situation.

I think I know the thread you’re talking about. That OP came here clearly wanting moral advice, as she has only recently learned that the Church teaches that contraception is intrinsically evil. The advice given her was sound and does not constitute medical advice. For a person who wants to avoid pregnancy and not commit sin, the options are: 1) Complete abstinence until menopause or 2) Practicing periodic abstinence (NFP). That’s it. I’m not sure what type of “medical and pastoral counseling” could help sugar coat that fact that it can be and often is difficult to do that right thing.

 

[CajunCatholic87]

I’m not sure what type of “medical and pastoral counseling” could help sugar coat that fact that it can be and often is difficult to do that right thing.

Medical counseling would tell you whether or not it’s feasible to use NFP. Spiritual counseling would help you conform your life to the need to abstain from sex with your spouse. Do you live under the same roof? Do you continue to share a bed? Can I pack her up and send her to convent? I know I would need guidance as to what my life should look like after that change. I can’t imagine somebody left with little other guidance than, “suck it up buttercup”, would be successful.

 

[CajunCatholic87]

Who better to teach that abstinence can and should be done. Someone who has forsaken all sexual relationships, their very existence shows that it can be done, that it is possible. I am not sure what better witness to abstinence you could ask for.

Priests have just as many failings as anyone when it comes to chastity. They also don’t have a spouse that they are sleeping next to every night to tempt them.

 

[bjames1728]

So if I understand the math correctly.

P(pregnancy) = 1 - P(no pregnancy)ⁿ where n is the number cycles of use.

Yes, that is the right formula.

nytimes.com/interactive/2014/09/14/sunday-review/unplanned-pregnancies.html?_r=0

The linked graphic illustrates the challenge of long-term birth avoidance. At risk of being a broken record, the actual numbers should be considered with the help of a medical professional. Case in point, the authors of the linked graphic should not have used a coin-flip model to propagate so-called “user error”. Unlike inherent method error, user error includes things like training, commitment and experience and is not completely independent between pass/fail events. So this graphic runs the risk of being overly pessimistic while still directionally informative. To be clear, I believe NFP can be effective for spacing births, but the decision to use it is a serious one and highly dependent on the family’s situation.

 

[nodito]

Medical counseling would tell you whether or not it’s feasible to use NFP. Spiritual counseling would help you conform your life to the need to abstain from sex with your spouse. Do you live under the same roof? Do you continue to share a bed? Can I pack her up and send her to convent? I know I would need guidance as to what my life should look like after that change. I can’t imagine somebody left with little other guidance than, “suck it up buttercup”, would be successful.

Point taken.

 

[bjames1728]

Medical counseling would tell you whether or not it’s feasible to use NFP. Spiritual counseling would help you conform your life to the need to abstain from sex with your spouse. Do you live under the same roof? Do you continue to share a bed? Can I pack her up and send her to convent? I know I would need guidance as to what my life should look like after that change. I can’t imagine somebody left with little other guidance than, “suck it up buttercup”, would be successful.

Exactly. Knowing the proper destination is of absolute importance, but knowing the route to take is equally important. And the proper route depends on exactly where a person is starting from and where they might stumble along the way.

I will be as unambiguous as possible: I believe in the teachings and authority of the Catholic Church and have no intent to challenge it. I am not encouraging anyone to “shop around” to find justification for a decision opposed to Catholic morality. My intent from the start was to caution the OP on advice provided, and urge him to seek the proper counseling that he and his wife need. I’m sorry that I have nothing to offer him beyond that advice, or that anyone feels I am providing a justification for sin.