Vagina Monologues to continue at Notre Dame

[frommi]

I love how it always comes back around to the ‘homosexual agenda’…as if there is a book published somewhere that has some 12 step program to destroy society.

I don’t think you can blame the spread of academic freedom at a Catholic university on homosexuals or feminism.

Why are people so frightened to explore ideas? Even if they are wrong ideas…if we explore things, often we end up with an answer that no one expected.

When scientists were trying to prove the earth was the center of the universe, they found something they weren’t expecting.

By having our ‘best and brightest’ looking at some of these ideas put out for consumption by authors, filmmakers, etc…maybe they are the generation that finally makes enough sense of all of this to get the rest of us to stop lobbing the grenades of ‘truth’ at one another.

To claim that we have truth all sewn up and in our back pocket is a form of intellectual marxism that stands at the opposite pole of what education should be.

 

[buffalo]

frommi:

I love how it always comes back around to the ‘homosexual agenda’…as if there is a book published somewhere that has some 12 step program to destroy society.

I don’t think you can blame the spread of academic freedom at a Catholic university on homosexuals or feminism.

Why are people so frightened to explore ideas? Even if they are wrong ideas…if we explore things, often we end up with an answer that no one expected.

When scientists were trying to prove the earth was the center of the universe, they found something they weren’t expecting.

By having our ‘best and brightest’ looking at some of these ideas put out for consumption by authors, filmmakers, etc…maybe they are the generation that finally makes enough sense of all of this to get the rest of us to stop lobbing the grenades of ‘truth’ at one another.

To claim that we have truth all sewn up and in our back pocket is a form of intellectual marxism that stands at the opposite pole of what education should be.

Well there may not be a book, but there is the Communist Manifesto.

 

[Crumpy]

I think the Bishop’s words are plain enough.

If we extended this idea of academic freedom to its logical conclusion, that is, to assert that every form of intellectual, social, and sexual pornography that comes along not only can, but must be give unfettered expression everywhere in the Catholic Church, then “we” become a whore of Babylon.

Instead, we Catholics ought to recognize we actually have received the gospel, know what it says in its simple terms, and accept it on those terms.

Therefore, it shouldn’t take a rocket scientist or a bishop or a university dean to know that such a form of expression and / or message of expression such as the Monologues is without redeeming value. Even the title itself, which plainly conjures up the imagery of a talking vagina, or perhaps at best, objectifies and reduces a woman to her sexual organ, is blatantly sexist and offensive.

I don’t think we need to “see what’s in it” to know what it’s about. It’s point of view is fairly obvious and noxious, as is even the title of this thread.

I’m sure the Blessed Virgin Mary was naked from time to time, but we have a tradition of respect that would preclude such depiction. And, while we honor the Immaculate Heart of Mary, we note that her other parts were just as immaculate, without further reference.

What’s next? The Feces Monologues?

 

[frommi]

buffalo:

Well there may not be a book, but there is the Communist Manifesto.

Wait a second…so now the “homosexual agenda” is the same as the “communist agenda”? And somehow the whole thing has something to do with the performance of the Vagina Monlogues at Notre Dame.

By any chance do you also believe that there are homosexuals hiding in a grassy knoll across from the Notre Dame Grotto as second shooters who are trying to bring down the Holy Cross Fathers?

This is about a play being performed. And yet, the dialogue about the performance is degraded by throwing out ‘red meat to the base’. Say ‘homosexual anti-family agenda’ and everyone comes runnign with their pitchforks.

Such statements are beneath the quality of dialogue in a church that has always demanded intelligence from its members of matters of theology and the health of the people of God.

 

[buffalo]

frommi:

Wait a second…so now the “homosexual agenda” is the same as the “communist agenda”? And somehow the whole thing has something to do with the performance of the Vagina Monlogues at Notre Dame.

By any chance do you also believe that there are homosexuals hiding in a grassy knoll across from the Notre Dame Grotto as second shooters who are trying to bring down the Holy Cross Fathers?

This is about a play being performed. And yet, the dialogue about the performance is degraded by throwing out ‘red meat to the base’. Say ‘homosexual anti-family agenda’ and everyone comes runnign with their pitchforks.

Such statements are beneath the quality of dialogue in a church that has always demanded intelligence from its members of matters of theology and the health of the people of God.

Yeah, it’s sad isn’t it.

IMPLEMENTING THE MANIFESTO THROUGH THE BACK DOOR
Communist Goal # 26. Present homosexually, degeneracy and promiscuity as normal, natural, healthy.

 Communist Goal # 27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed   religion with social religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize   the need for intellectual maturity which does not need a religious   crutch.

 Communist Goal # 32. Support any socialist movement to give   centralized control over any part of the culture-education, social   agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc.

 Communist Goal # 39. Dominate the psychiatric profession and   use mental health laws as a means of gaining coercive control   over those who oppose Communist goals.

 

[buffalo]

Dropping ‘Gay Bomb’ on Our Own Children

In fact, the use of homosexuality and other immoral behaviours to corrupt and demoralize an enemy on their home territory is not a new idea but was a cornerstone of communist actions against the US and elsewhere. In his best-selling, 1958 book, the Naked Communist, W. Cleon Skousen - an FBI agent for 16 years - listed promotion and acceptance of homosexuality as a major aspect of communist activity in the US.

The Communist Manifesto itself is forthright about its goal of destroying the traditional family. When the Soviets began adopting the cultural infiltration methods suggested by Italian Stalin-era writer Antonio Gramsci, homosexuality became a cornerstone of their efforts to undermine and demoralize western cultural structures.

Of the 45 goals of communism in the west, Skousen listed, “Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as ‘normal, natural, healthy.’” He also revealed the source of the current undermining of the traditional family in the courts: “Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio and TV.”

more…

 

[Domer1997]

Listen folks. I love the Catholic Church. And, there is no doubt that I love Notre Dame. So, I beg of you to open your minds a bit and see the big picture. A Catholic university needs to nurture and educate her students, so they understand all sides of issues. This isn’t the Baltimore Catechism of 1930 anymore! We can’t have “question” then “answer” with no understanding of the “why”? Yes, I too am not a fan of the Vagina Monologues, but they are being presented to students with the Catholic reasoning why certain themes in the texts are not morally acceptable. This strengthens faith. Please try to realize this!!!

Also, the Vagina monologues are about 0.1% of Notre Dame. Look at other aspects of the university. What other college campus in this nation (or the world for that matter) offers 35 Masses per day? There is daily rosary twice at the Grotto. There are daily confessions heard twice in the Basilica of the Sacred Heart. Pre-marital relations are a major offense which will get you kicked off campus. There is no student-run homosexual group like many Catholic colleges (however, there is counseling and support, which is VERY necessary for these students). What other university stops the football game to announce the Saturday and Sunday Mass schedule?!!!

The strength in my faith grew immensely at Notre Dame because all sides of every issue were uncovered, and I never had a professor in any class violate the integrity of Catholic doctrine.

 

[buffalo]

Domer1997:

Listen folks. I love the Catholic Church. And, there is no doubt that I love Notre Dame. So, I beg of you to open your minds a bit and see the big picture. A Catholic university needs to nurture and educate her students, so they understand all sides of issues. This isn’t the Baltimore Catechism of 1930 anymore! We can’t have “question” then “answer” with no understanding of the “why”? Yes, I too am not a fan of the Vagina Monologues, but they are being presented to students with the Catholic reasoning why certain themes in the texts are not morally acceptable. This strengthens faith. Please try to realize this!!!

Also, the Vagina monologues are about 0.1% of Notre Dame. Look at other aspects of the university. What other college campus in this nation (or the world for that matter) offers 35 Masses per day? There is daily rosary twice at the Grotto. There are daily confessions heard twice in the Basilica of the Sacred Heart. Pre-marital relations are a major offense which will get you kicked off campus. There is no student-run homosexual group like many Catholic colleges (however, there is counseling and support, which is VERY necessary for these students). What other university stops the football game to announce the Saturday and Sunday Mass schedule?!!!

The strength in my faith grew immensely at Notre Dame because all sides of every issue were uncovered, and I never had a professor in any class violate the integrity of Catholic doctrine.

Mandatum Cover-Up? — Part III: Notre Dame

Brian MacMichael found out the hard way. He said one theology course was enough to make him wonder whether he had made a mistake when he transferred to the school from the University of Florida.

“The course was on the sacraments,” MacMichael explained, “and when the professor taught on the Eucharist she taught that Christ was equally as present in the community presence as in the Eucharist.”

When MacMichael cited Pope Paul VI’s 1965 encyclical Mysterium Fidei (On the Holy Eucharist) to demonstrate that Christ is uniquely present in the Eucharist, he was disregarded.

“She held her ground, reiterating that Christ was just as present in the assembly during Mass,” he recounted.

“I was worried that perhaps this was what the entire theology department was like,” MacMichael said.

But doesn’t the entire theology department have the canon law-required mandatums from the bishop certifying that they teach with the Church? No one there will say.

more…

 

[buffalo]

Notre Dame Students Find Faith Under Attack

“I don’t think anyone here has it [the mandatum],” junior Daniel Rober said. That’s the presumption that I take when I look at the content of the course." Rober described the lower-level theology foundations courses as a “crapshoot.” He said he chooses courses carefully based upon the course description and talking with older students who have already taken the classes.

MacMichael said it’s worse for theology majors. “The vast majority of theology majors are very impressionable,” he said. “Most of them have a genuine interest in the field of theology but do not enter the discipline with a working knowledge of the Catholic faith. It’s dangerous because they ask questions believing they are getting the right answers.”

Ironically, said MacMichael, the school crows about requiring theology courses, but those courses might actually undermine students’ faith.

“There was a systematic attempt to undermine what the Church is teaching in the name of academic integrity,” said Father Brian Herlocker, a 2000 theology graduate from Notre Dame, describing his theology education at the school.

“We were supposed to look at all sides, but that isn’t what happened,” said Father Herlocker, who is ordained in the Diocese of Peoria, Ill., and works at the Newman Foundation at the University of Illinois at Champaign-Urbana. “Instead, if we read Veritatis Splendor [The Splendor of Truth, Pope John Paul II’s 1993 encyclical] at all it was to set it up as a straw man or to show how out of touch the Pope was.”

more…

 

[frommi]

buffalo:

Yeah, it’s sad isn’t it.

IMPLEMENTING THE MANIFESTO THROUGH THE BACK DOOR
Communist Goal # 26. Present homosexually, degeneracy and promiscuity as normal, natural, healthy.

 Communist Goal # 27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed   religion with social religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize   the need for intellectual maturity which does not need a religious   crutch.

 Communist Goal # 32. Support any socialist movement to give   centralized control over any part of the culture-education, social   agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc.

 Communist Goal # 39. Dominate the psychiatric profession and   use mental health laws as a means of gaining coercive control   over those who oppose Communist goals.

That might be the most delusional and mean spirited thing I’ve seen in these forums.

It’s certainly the least intelligent

 

[Crumpy]

Et tu, Brute.

 

[Brendan]

Domer1997:

Yes, I too am not a fan of the Vagina Monologues, but they are being presented to students with the Catholic reasoning why certain themes in the texts are not morally acceptable. This strengthens faith. Please try to realize this!!!

When is the Showing of the KKK film “Birth of a Nation” planned for?

That way we can all watch it ( including the black students) and then discuss it in light of Catholic Moral Teaching.

We can even have a ‘double showing’ with some child porn.

All so we can understand it in light of Catholic teaching, of course.

 

[frommi]

Brendan:

When is the Showing of the KKK film “Birth of a Nation” planned for?

That way we can all watch it ( including the black students) and then discuss it in light of Catholic Moral Teaching.

We can even have a ‘double showing’ with some child porn.

All so we can understand it in light of Catholic teaching, of course.

Now we’re comparing the Vagina Monolgues with child porn…and a racist indoctrination film.

First of all, Birth of a Nation is often shown on college campuses.

And once again Brendan…you and your ilk boil it down to things so flammable that its impossible for people not to get upset on either side of the debate.

You aren’t going to be an effective preacher if this is the tone you take…telling your people they can’t do any worse…

 

[MrS]

Brendan:

When is the Showing of the KKK film “Birth of a Nation” planned for?

That way we can all watch it ( including the black students) and then discuss it in light of Catholic Moral Teaching.

We can even have a ‘double showing’ with some child porn.

All so we can understand it in light of Catholic teaching, of course.

and it would all be approved by Bishop Frommi…in the light of positive education to those who need to live in his real world. Come on, frommi, where do you draw the line on what is sensible, and what is goofy?

 

[MrS]

frommi:

You aren’t going to be an effective preacher if this is the tone you take…telling your people they can’t do any worse…

yeh, you might end of like Fr. Corapi… give them a good dose of the truth, and let them swallow and enjoy,… or toss it and remain in the dark.

 

[oat_soda]

notre dame sets a ridiculously low standard and fails to meet it. it’s a perfect school for cultural catholicism. if you want to loose your faith, or at least get a secular relativistic version of it, send your kids there. otherwise, save yourself the money and send your kids to a good local state college. some have eccellent catholic groups.

 

[shs-aod]

***I have an idea, let’s show “Debbie Does Dallas” on campus, and afterwards sit around and have a discussion… ***

The above statement, while too cute by half, proves incontrovertibly that you’ve obviously seen neither of the two productions in question.

 

[Brendan]

frommi:

Now we’re comparing the Vagina Monolgues with child porn…and a racist indoctrination film.

Sure, they are all contray to the faith. And it’s something we, as Catholics might encounter, so we should be educated in it, correct?

Just like the Monolgues.

First of all, Birth of a Nation is often shown on college campuses.

I have little doubt. And V.M. deserves to be shown in the exact same context, as something immoral.

And once again Brendan…you and your ilk boil it down to things so flammable that its impossible for people not to get upset on either side of the debate.

Sometimes people NEED to be upset, to be shown how damaging things like the Monolgues are to women. They are comfortable in it, they hold that it is beneficial to society.

And they are wrong.

You aren’t going to be an effective preacher if this is the tone you take…telling your people they can’t do any worse…

I’ll leave that up to my Homiletics professors

 

[cecelia]

It’s interesting the use of the word “education” and the phrase "academic freedom. They are verbal Trojan horses. “Semantic engineering, a vital weapon in Liberalism’s arsonal, brings about a change in the accepted usage of the term, so that here we have “education” now becoming the portal by which sin can enter. “The Vagina Monologues” is sin at worst and at best an extremely stunted view of human sexuality as given to us to by God our Father and passed down through the generations through theOne True Church. Therefore, there is no need to be “educated” about it by bringing it to the university. That such a stance is disingenuous is obvious by its talk of post-Monologues discussion.” Is the discussion going to include the “Theology of the Body” and the proper ordering of the human sexuality? I dare so, I don’t think that “fair and balanced” will be part of the post discussion.
And as far as “academic freedom” is concerned. At a Catholic university, it’s the freedom to do as one ought to do to uphold the truths of the Faith. I cannot imagine for example Aquinas in his day, for example, bringing a play about Christ based on the Arian heresy to his university and defending it by chalking it up to “academic freedom.” Academic freedom at a Catholic university in particular should be dedicated to upholding the good, the beautiful,and the true. This so-called freedom is really a way for dissidents to silence criticism of their dissent, which is now easy to do because political correctness precludes any zeal to defend right reason on campuses these days.
The fact that this is even a fact on Notre Dame’s campus should open our eyes to how far we have strayed from the fullness of the faith. This play could not have been shown 40 years ago on Notre Dame’s campus. Yet here it is in 2006 and because of the gradualism is our society even Catholics will defer and say that the only way to “educate” our young Catholics is by showing them sin, and that professors must do so to ensure their “academic freedom.” And to add insult to injury, this play is being shown at Notre Dame-- Our Lady–the embodiment of true feminism, femininity,motherhood, and womanhood. But for some reason, I don’t think that Notre Dame’s in a rush to present a play about her, or to hold her up as a model, she the whole person, a true example of courage, rather than this reductive play which supposedly “celebrates” woman but in reality really prevents them from realizing what true womanhood really is.

 

[ND_Mike]

I’m ashamed to attend Notre Dame. Father Jenkins, like so many priests today buckled under the pressure of criticism for his comments. I in no way call Fr. Jenkins a coward, I’ve talked to him and he is very geniune and trying, but his decision was cowardace. The vagina monologues are disgusting filth under the guise of art and abuse awareness. If we really want to have an academic discussion and do some good we need to volunteer time, money, blood, sweat, and tears to victims in our local areas and hear their stories and give them support physically, emotionally, and morally. There are far less offensive, more in line with Catholic social teaching, and logically more effective and productive. It’s bad enough that the University’s Catholic identity is mediocre at best theologically let alone we lower ourselves to this level. I have no problem with academic discussion and seeing the issues that face our modern world today, but that doesn’t mean we need to experience them. Do we need to physically experience pornography, masturbation, fornication, and adultery to understand how the world is today? It’s hard enough we deal with these issues every day on TV, in magazines, books, movies, and the internet. Why should we be subjected to them in an environment that is supossed to be Catholic and help individuals properly develop in their Catholic faith?

My transering to Notre Dame was not a mistake. I thank God for that blessing. I met great friends and experienced this mediocrity which I’ve had to deal with from my own parish. I’m glad I met some good Catholic people, including Brian , who have helped me grow. My time at Notre Dame has made me even more enthusiastic to enter the priesthood and speak the truth for those who may not want to hear it but NEED to. I was and will continue to pray for Fr. Jenkins. It has been so upsetting for me since I really thought Fr. was leading Notre Dame back to what it once was. We should all pray for Fr. Jenkins, and all our priests and bishops to stand up for what is right and true. They need our prayers just as much as those who are criticized and even silenced for speaking the truth. Only with good solid priests who proclaim the truth will the faithful be led to Christ.