Vagina Monologues to continue at Notre Dame

[frommi]

WanderAimlessly:

I am afraid you are wrong. The Bishop has complete authority in his Diocese. In fact Canon Law expressly addresses this: PF

A fact that most in these forums only want applied to bishops they like.

Insofar as Catholic colleges are concerned however, it’s really just the teaching of theology that a bishop has any sort of control.

 

[ND_Mike]

shs-aod:

C’mon… do you honestly believe that the choice of a football coach is some memorable, heroic event in the history of Catholic higher education? If Fr Jenkins is typical of most university presidents, he probably did no more than “rubber-stamp” a decision made by the Athletic Director and his staff. Personally, I don’t remember that much criticism of this choice from anyone, including the Trey Wingos and Dan Patricks of this world. (I say that as someone who has watched and listened to ESPN far more than ETWN). Most of the criticism of Notre Dame by the sports media was directed toward their collective handling of the entire affair of Ty Willingham’s forced “resignation”.

Who can forget? I’d venture to say 99.5% of the fans of college football. Most of them couldn’t even tell you the name of the ND president. You’d have much success asking them about that interior lineman prospect/recruit from Kankakee High School.

I daresay that Fr Jenkins himself can point to dozens of administrative decisions that have had more impact and significance than the choice of Charlie Weis as football coach. So could his most staunch supporters, as well as his harshest critics.

Personally I’d place myself in the former camp, and Charlie Weis (or the lack thereof) never came to mind one time. I can certainly appreciate your effort to support the administration of Notre Dame under Fr Jenkins, but surely you can do better than this.

Mellow enough for you?

I’m not saying this was a noble move. I’m just stating Jenkins has in the past made very public decisions in light of criticism. I should have seperated this part more clearly from my first paragraph.

To be honest, I don’t know where I stand with Fr. Jenkins right now. He has made some progress from the Monk Malloy, but this move is a big disappointment. I’ll tell you one thing though, if Notre Dame stays on this course I will not want to have much to do with the University.

 

[Rach620]

Sorry in advance for the long post! I tried to break it up into readable chunks!

I’m a student at ND and I wanted to address some things being said. But first, for anyone who’s really interested in this, especially alumni, I’d really recommend reading his January address to the faculty and then the April “Closing Statement”. There are key differences in what he says and the words he chooses to say them in the two which you really notice when you read them in order. Perhaps then you’ll understand my disappointment…

But the basics of Jenkins’ decision (as it applies to more than just the V-Logs):

• He is endorsing the production of ND monologues, which will be called “Loyal Daughters” (previously “Her Loyal Daughters,” referencing Mary, but that reference has been removed). LD will be performed this November, and if the directors of the V-Logs “see a need” for their performance in February, then they will have no trouble from Jenkins about performing the V-Logs then.
• In the future, departments will be the first to weigh in on the appropriateness of certain productions, not the president. Only if something is “overt and insistent” in its contempt for Catholic teaching will it be prohibited, or will Jenkins step in.

Now to address what others have said…

To be honest, I don’t know where I stand with Fr. Jenkins right now. He has made some progress from the Monk Malloy, but this move is a big disappointment.

Fr. Jenkins seems, to me at least, to have lost his chance to be another Hesburgh. He had the opportunity to write PAGES of ND history, moving us in the direction of a great Catholic university which pursues nothing but the Truth found through faith and reason… but he missed it and chose to become Monk Malloy, Jr. In January (and even at his inaugural address last September,) he expressed such deep feelings about his desire for the pursuit of Truth at ND to flourish… but he caved to pressure, yielding April’s statement.

Notre Dame is allowing performances and speakers that may have ideas compromising some church teachings. Being a Catholic university, however, he is forcing those faculty members involved to make it very clear that Notre Dame is not advocating or supporting these dissident views. He stresses that students need to see the other side of issues to strenghthen their own faith and knowledge, and he is correct.

For example, this year’s Vagina Monologues were read in a classroom with no funding and were read for academic purposes only. Following each reading of the monologues was a panel discussion with representitives from the theology department stressing the importance of Catholic teaching on the aspect of human sexuality.

Although the monologues do denounce violence against women (which is admirable), they also are very abrasive and contain teaching contrary to Catholic doctrine. I believe it is universally agreed that Notre Dame cannot stand by and let any view which is inherently contrary to the school’s principles be represented without the proper clarification of Catholic doctrine. Fr. Jenkins is simply making sure the doctrine is constantly present when addressing situations contrary to Church teaching.

No, he is not correct. Ideally, yes, Catholic university students should be able to strengthen their own faith by seeing other points of view, but that is assuming that they have had sufficient grounding in their Catholic faith. Sadly, many students here have not. For them, the V-Logs are gravely dangerous.

The idea of engaging controversial, even views opposing Catholic ones, is in itself a good one. The problem is that the V-Logs don’t want and don’t try to be academically engaged. Sure, there were panels after the presentations this year, which occurred in an academic setting. whoop-dee-do. The V-Logs are almost religiously presented here on campus, year after year, not because their presenters desire to academically engage secular feminism in light of Catholic teaching, but because they want to persuade people that the secular view of sex, women’s rights, etc. is the right one.

There was an academic conference sponsored here on campus in early February, before the V-Logs, that got almost zero attention from the Observer (the “official” campus paper) and students in general, called the Edith Stein Project. It did try to engage secular feminism in an academic sort of way, the way Jenkins suggests, highlighting its weaknesses and presenting alternatives, but it was widely ignored… students here do not want to engage secular feminism, and try to discover the Truth through dialogue with it. They just want the ‘right’ to present a crude and offensive play that they somehow find (or have been told is) liberating.

…to be continued…

 

[Rach620]

…continued…

Now if someone says to you, “Notre Dame is allowing the Vagina Monolgues on campus…isn’t that terrible!” Please know that there is a LOT more too it And, please know that they are not compromising the integrity of the Church and her beliefs.

It is terrible. Jenkins has set the precedent for the rest of his presidency, and that is “Hey, I want to dialogue with you, I have some pretty strong opinions, but push hard enough and you’ll probably win.” The integrity of Catholic tradition on this campus has been severely compromised. It’s not a good situation.

Basically…Catholicism, on a university campus, should not be something which is just “in dialogue” with other disciplines or “dissident views”. It is not enough to simply present the “traditional Catholic point of view” along with the others. All other disciplines MUST be understood through the lens of the unity of faith and reason. This new “balance” of ideas in pursuit of some sort of subjective truth is very secular and has no place on a Catholic campus.
That’s it! Please continue to pray for Fr. Jenkins… not a change of heart, because I don’t think that’s necessary in his case, but a change of mind and the strength and courage to do what is right.

 

[ND_Mike]

Rach620:

Fr. Jenkins seems, to me at least, to have lost his chance to be another Hesburgh. He had the opportunity to write PAGES of ND history, moving us in the direction of a great Catholic university which pursues nothing but the Truth found through faith and reason… but he missed it and chose to become Monk Malloy, Jr. In January (and even at his inaugural address last September,) he expressed such deep feelings about his desire for the pursuit of Truth at ND to flourish… but he caved to pressure, yielding April’s statement.

I absolutely agree with you. His decision was really crushing and it makes me so upset when I finally thought ND was reclaiming its Catholic identity that was lost with Monk Malloy. Since I transfered to Notre Dame I was severly disappointed in the lack of orthodox Catholic faith and community at Notre Dame. It’s sad when my Newman Center back at NIU was far more Catholic than a Catholic University. While ND is full of problems, we must not forget the good there. You go to daily adoration, Mass, Confession not to mention the Latin Novus Ordo at Alumni Hall one Saturday a month. There are many truly faithful Catholics at Notre Dame, but they are being silenced. It was good to see one of Fr. Jenkins own Holy Cross members ask him to rethink his new decision and remain true to himself. It hurt me so much to see him change his mind after all the pressure, but I pray for Our Lady’s University.

Don’t give up hope yet. We, orthodox Catholics, just need to speak up more at ND and not step down to those who claim to teach Catholicism and the truth, but do not want to listen to the magisterium.

 

[proud2bcatholic]

Excellent posts Rach, I pray that students and faculty like yourself gain more and more influence at Notre Dame, it would be awesome if Notre Dame returned to its Catholic roots in a substantial way!

 

[frommi]

ND Mike:

Don’t give up hope yet. We, orthodox Catholics, just need to speak up more at ND and not step down to those who claim to teach Catholicism and the truth, but do not want to listen to the magisterium.

Do you really think that with the “I am thee orthodox though are not” tact that you’re gonna get anywhere?

It’s a place of higher learning…and you won’t get a good education if loyalty tests become the order of the day.

Notre Dame is a tremendously Catholic place, but it has responsibilities to be a catholic place too.

Don’t turn into one of the bitter folks who runs around and claims ‘orthodox’ and ‘authentic’ when they basically mean ‘i’m anti-abortion and anti-gay’…theres quite a bit more to the whole religion thing than that.

 

[Brendan]

frommi:

A fact that most in these forums only want applied to bishops they like.

Insofar as Catholic colleges are concerned however, it’s really just the teaching of theology that a bishop has any sort of control.

Not necessarily.

Last year, Archbishop Flynn of St. Paul and expelled the Legionaires of Christ from his diocese.

I wasn’t too keen on that, (in fact, I thought they would have been the perfect choice to run St. Joan of Arc, ) but that is his perogative as bishop.

But what I’m hearing here is that Bishop D’Arcy would not have the same right with either a single Holy Cross priest, or the entire order, only because they happen to run a University.

 

[frommi]

Brendan:

Not necessarily.

Last year, Archbishop Flynn of St. Paul and expelled the Legionaires of Christ from his diocese.

I wasn’t too keen on that, (in fact, I thought they would have been the perfect choice to run St. Joan of Arc, ) but that is his perogative as bishop.

But what I’m hearing here is that Bishop D’Arcy would not have the same right with either a single Holy Cross priest, or the entire order, only because they happen to run a University.

The Bishop could expel the order…or strip the universtiy of its Catholic identity.

But, beyond that…he has zero control of the situation.

It’s kind of an all or nothing proposition.

 

[ND_Mike]

frommi:

Do you really think that with the “I am thee orthodox though are not” tact that you’re gonna get anywhere?

It’s a place of higher learning…and you won’t get a good education if loyalty tests become the order of the day.

Notre Dame is a tremendously Catholic place, but it has responsibilities to be a catholic place too.

Don’t turn into one of the bitter folks who runs around and claims ‘orthodox’ and ‘authentic’ when they basically mean ‘i’m anti-abortion and anti-gay’…theres quite a bit more to the whole religion thing than that.

That tact seems to have been working the last few years. We’ve criticized issues at the school which are contrary to the fundamental faith and moral values of the Catholic Church and it looks like its working. None of this is holier than thou talk. Rather it is saying we are a Catholic University. That Catholic identity should be fostered through our actions. Just as an individual’s actions express their true faith and identity so does the University’s.

In the past two years we’ve increased daily adoration hours almost double the time. We also finally had a Eucharistic procession on campus for the first time in 42 years. The funding of pro-choice groups through the Vagina Monologues has ended. We’ve started chastity groups to speak to local teens, we’ve hosted pro-life and theology of the body conferences. The tides are turning at Notre Dame, and those who oppose Catholic Doctrine see it. That’s why there is such a fuss.

You tell me worying about being loyal the magisterium will ruin the academic integrity of Notre Dame. Well, I’ll tell you this. I didn’t come to Notre Dame for an Ivy League education. I also didn’t come here for the football team. I came to Notre Dame to get a solid education in both my area of study and my Catholic faith. Unfortunately, I now realize I received a better education from my public Universities and their Newman Centers for less than half the cost. I’ve been to three different colleges due to health reasons and I know what is out there. Being loyal to the magisterium is not that difficult to do. It shouldn’t take much time for the University to make sure they are following the teachings of the Church or even the advice of the Holy Father.

I’m sorry but you’re sadly mistaken on the views of orthodox Catholicism. We do not worry about just two issues. We are also not anti homosexuality. We are anti homosexual intercourse and anti fornication. Besides that point we follow the dogmas of our Church, both faith and morals. We hold great sacredness to the liturgy and the sacraments of our Church. We believe in social justice for the hungry, poor, disabled, and those taken advantage of. They are equal human beings, they should be treated as such. We need to help them with all are resources, time, money, love, and support. There are so many different issues that deal with being an orthodox Catholic but that’s not what this topic is about. Maybe you need some time to rethink it and see the deeper meaning of being Catholic, because those who claim to be orthodox or authentic have many concerns. Abortion is just a huge one because it’s killing of the innocent and without life we have no other use for social justice.

I have no problem with Notre Dame wanting to be a premier academic institution of higher learning. If they want to mimic Ivy League schools or schools of a similar caliber, fine by me. If they sacrifice their Catholic identity for this academic standing then I have an issue. If you’re going to call yourself a Catholic University you better well be one. Following some of the faith while ignoring other parts doesn’t cut it. We’re shaping the minds of the future here, and with mediocre Catholic spiritual direction at Notre Dame we’re giving people the wrong impression of what our faith is about. I care more about the salvation every soul at that University than whether they become brilliant, rich, or both. We’re dealing with the souls of over 8,000 human beings here. I’m sorry if I’m so adamant about being faithful to the Church, but I don’t want to see anyone misled in the faith. You’d be surprised how many times I have spent hours in dorm rooms explaining the teachings of the Church to those who didn’t know them. They had all kinds of notions which were either taught or gathered due to the fact that nobody bothered to teach them the full truth.

 

[ND_Mike]

If you only knew the difficulty of being at Notre Dame. I was an RCIA sponsor there because my Assistant Rector asked me to help. I was glad to be able to teach someone the faith since I was originally taught so poorly and had to learn through self study. Unfortunately, I was told by him to remain silent after I had spoken up to correct innacurate teachings or omission of important parts of our faith. Do you know what ND’s RCIA program produced? It produces individuals who do not posses the knowledge of what Catholicism really is. It’s not their fault but the University’s. When I went on a vocations retreat to the Conventual Franciscan’s formation house I met a candidate who went through Notre Dame’s RCIA program. He along with others from the program constantly say Rome is wrong and needs to get with the times, they even say that Jesus’s miracles weren’t miracles or historic, and that papal infallibility was not a needed dogma, etc… This is what Notre Dame produces. The lack of a true Catholic identity hurts Catholicism now and in the future, both through the laity and the clergy. You may not think it’s a big deal, but I’ve seen its fruits and I know it is.

 

[frommi]

Well thought out post ND Mike…you’ve at least given me some thoughts to chew on. I don’t necessairly agree with all of it, but I find it refreshing to see something that is cogent, logical, and redolent of clean dialogue with resorting to grenade throwing.

 

[elzbeth99]

I have not seen the V-Logs… though I do have many friends that identitfy strongly to it and I have talked with them and found they have been roped in so to speak.

Does anybody else here know people who have been wounded like the ones in the V-Logs? I do! Being a new Catholic I know what I can recommend they could do for healing and am in the process myself. The Church is Awesome, the teaching on the Theology of the Body is Awesome. I guess what I have to say is when I do read the V-Logs, I don’t think I could handle seeing it preformed, I want to have grounded myself more firmly in Pope John Paul’s teachings and will be able to see it as Christ does, with complete heart wrenching compassion for those who have experienced such a terrible distortion of their sexuality.

I hope the point many here are trying to make is: That our leadership should know of our human weaknesses well enough not to allow more exposure to distortions sexuality, especially in the form of entertainment. Which is what many college students, I fear, will go see this as, and be in for a shock. I have some hope that this is not being performed for that reason, but I have not been completely convinced on either side that people are taking the proper steps to put it is the right context.
Monologue, is a wonderful artistic expression. In this case it is expressing a pain that is beyond my understanding. I hope to grow to understand in a way that does not compromise my faith in weakness or in fear.

Loving All in Christ,