Vain Repetitions

[USMC_Convert]

I’d ask her what she thinks of the fact that the Jews before Christ, during Christ’s life and after His death along with the earliest Christians prayed the psalms everyday, all 150 of them! In fact the psalms were the early version of the Rosary. They were prayed all the way up until and even after the Rosary came about in the early 1200’s, everyday, all 150 of them. Why does she think that she knows better than those who lived with and immediately after Jesus?

Ask her if her daughter was going to be having brain surgery if she would only ask once for God to heal her? What’s the limit? Once a day? Twice a day? How many times can you ask God for the same thing? Or does it not matter as long as you change up a couple words before and after the request?

The Our Father was given to us by Jesus, should we only ask for our daily bread, for forgiveness, for God’s will to be done, and so on once a day?

The Hail Mary gives honor to the Mother of God first, as St Paul commands us, and then it begs for the Queen of heaven and earth to intercede for us before God now and at the hour of our death. That last part coming about during the bubonic plague, where 1/3 of the population was being wiped out. It must have been very comforting to the people of that time to know that the Blessed Virgin would help them now and at the hour of their death, which was likely coming soon.

 

[Cathoholic]

giuseppe96:

One of her biggest complaints is about how Catholics allegedly pray from memorization rather than from the heart. It’s her reasoning for not trying to pray the Rosary.

Tell her with the Rosary it’s BOTH “memorization” AND “Heart” (because we try to meditate on the given mystery we are praying).

When Jesus prayed "Abba Father. . . . " three times repititiously in the Garden of Olives, He was likely thinking of us too in addition to “this cup”.

When the angelic hosts in Heaven constantly pray “Holy, holy, holy, Lord . . .” They too are carrying out more than mere rote memory.

ISAIAH 6:1b-3 I saw the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up; and his train filled the temple. 2 Above him stood the seraphim; each had six wings: with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew. 3 And one called to another and said:

“Holy, holy, holy is the Lord of hosts;
the whole earth is full of his glory.”​

REVELATION 4:8 8 And the four living creatures, each of them with six wings, are full of eyes all round and within, and day and night they never cease to sing,

“Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord God Almighty,
who was and is and is to come!”​

Hope this helps giuseppe96.

God bless.

Cathoholic

 

[Church_Militant]

Ask her why it’s wrong to repeat the same prayer when we know that Christ did it.
***Matthew 26:[39] And going a little farther he fell on his face and prayed, “My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as thou wilt.”
[40] And he came to the disciples and found them sleeping; and he said to Peter, “So, could you not watch with me one hour?
[41] Watch and pray that you may not enter into temptation; the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.”
[42] Again, for the second time, he went away and prayed, “My Father, if this cannot pass unless I drink it, thy will be done.”
[43] And again he came and found them sleeping, for their eyes were heavy.
[44] So, leaving them again, he went away and prayed for the third time, saying the same words.
***The context in no way indicates that that was wrong and therefore it cannot be what Jesus had previously condemned. See also…
Do Catholics Pray "Vain Repetitions?"

Why the Rosary Isn’t "Vain Repetitions"

Is Jesus against Catholic Prayers?

 

[DebChris]

Here is one other way I think about the Rosary or any repeated prayer (like other chaplets, the Litary of Loreto, Litany of the Saints, etc.)

I have done a lot of needlework in the past. If you do needlework like knitting, counted cross stitch, weaving, piecing a quilt, etc. you are basically doing a whole bunch of repeated motions. Making hundreds of little stitches, often a group of the same kind in a row.

Put all together this makes up a beautiful “whole” - a knitted afghan, a counted cross stitch picture, a woven piece of cloth or a big quilt from many little pieces. I think of the Rosary as me making up a piece of prayer needlework. All the repeated prayers are like the groups of stitches, and then taken all together it is making something pretty to give to the Lord.

This is a good way to look at prayer.

Most of the prayers that we as Catholics pray have their origin in Scripture. We can point to the Salutation of Gabriel to Mary as the beginning of the Hail Mary.
Our prayers to God are not in vain. His word does return void.
Psalm 118 is a Hymn of Thanksgiving. Each line repeats the phrase “God’s love endures forever.”
Long before the development of Christian prayer, the Jews prayed the psalms. Christians continued to pray the psalms. “God’s love endures forever.”
The prayer that Christ taught was the Our Father. The Father of the Church recommended that the Our Father be prayed at least three times a day. It is prayed during Morning Prayer and Evening Prayer of the Liturgy of the Hours. It is part of every Mass, and every rosary.
Ritual gives a sense of belonging. When the Pope Francis was elevated, he needed only to begin Our Father, Hail Mary, Glory Be…, and everybody knew what was expected and was able to participate. The Catholic Church is indeed the Universal Church.

It is of course important that each prayer be prayed slowly, reverently and with devotion.

 

[po18guy]

No, I do not believe that this would be an example of praying in vain. It just sounds like they are calling on God’s name repetitively in prayer, but not in vain.

Note that I suggested only “closer to” and not actual vanity.

 

[DebChris]

No, I do not believe that this would be an example of praying in vain. It just sounds like they are calling on God’s name repetitively in prayer, but not in vain.
However, I will say this…sometimes here on Catholic Answers I see strange postings for Novena’s, that turns a beautiful novena into an act of superstition.
These novena’s start with a person praying as a normal novena for nine days, and then at the end a poster says that they now have to publish that prayer publically, to guarantee to have their prayers answered within a certain number of days. I wonder if that is an example of vainful repetition. They do not trust that heaven has heard their intentions of their novena and God will answer according to his will. But, in order to guarantee their request, they now have to publish it…it makes a beautiful novena prayer, into an act of superstition. I wonder if that is an example of vainful repetition.

These are called “chain prayers” and as I understand it they are forbidden on CAF and if the mod sees one s/he will post that it’s a chain prayer and call you out.

I’ve seen these around forever including paper copies left in pews at church before we had the Internet, people also used to publish them in the newspaper classified ads sections. If you want to just say it for the 9 days and leave the copy or publish in the paper then that’s OK and could be seen as a way of spreading the devotion (much like someone on another thread is leaving off holy cards with Divine Mercy prayer on them). It’s when the prayer note goes even further and says you HAVE to do this in order for the prayer to be GUARANTEED to work that it becomes a superstitious and a problem.

It is not necessary to publicize your request. Our Lord tells us in Scripture, to go into your closet to pray. There no need to make a big show for your heavenly Father sees all things. He was talking about those who make a show about fasting, etc.
I had a pastor who tired of people simply leaving pamphlets and other materials in the vestibules and pews without permission. He made a point about it in one of his homilies, and about the dangers of such superstitions. Chain letters are against Catholic teaching. It doesn’t matter if it says to pray this particular prayer for so many days and you will receive an answer to your prayer, or money. They usually have a failure to complete this or pass on to so many people will result in dire consequences clause.
St. Jude is the patron Saint of lost causes. There are legitimate prayers invoking St. Jude’s intercession. Unfortunately, he is the Saint that I most often see used in a superstitious manner like Father warned against.

 

[Lenten_ashes]

Ask her why it’s wrong to repeat the same prayer when we know that Christ did it.
***Matthew 26:[39] And going a little farther he fell on his face and prayed, “My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as thou wilt.”
[40] And he came to the disciples and found them sleeping; and he said to Peter, “So, could you not watch with me one hour?
[41] Watch and pray that you may not enter into temptation; the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.”
[42] Again, for the second time, he went away and prayed, “My Father, if this cannot pass unless I drink it, thy will be done.”
[43] And again he came and found them sleeping, for their eyes were heavy.
[44] So, leaving them again, he went away and prayed for the third time, saying the same words.
***The context in no way indicates that that was wrong and therefore it cannot be what Jesus had previously condemned. See also…
Do Catholics Pray "Vain Repetitions?"

Why the Rosary Isn’t "Vain Repetitions"

Is Jesus against Catholic Prayers?

Right, Jesus was praying the same things. It’s right there in the Gospels, so that should be the end of the debate for Sola Scriptura practicing Protestants who object to this.

 

[Dorothy]

My Protestant friend frequently brings up her quips about Catholicism. One of her biggest complaints is about how Catholics allegedly pray from memorization rather than from the heart. It’s her reasoning for not trying to pray the Rosary. How can I explain to her why Catholics memorize their prayers, and that repetition is not always vain?

When we repeat prayers from our heart it is not vain. God knows how the individual is praying, not someone who is looking at them pray. God knows who is praying without thinking what they are saying.

Memorized prayers are fine when we pray from the heart. And, we can also talk to the Lord in our own words with respect as He is our best friend.

Many Protestants memorize lines of Sacred Scripture and then repeat these verses out of their context to Catholics.

Peace,

Dorothy

 

[DarkLight]

I took a look at the area around that passage. Here’s the instructions we find:

• Do not give to the poor publicly in order to be seen
• Do not pray loudly in front of others, to be seen by them
• Do not pray with repetitions, because God already knows what you need
• Do not fast in such a way as to make your fasting obvious

That would suggest to me that something similar is going on; namely, that Jesus is warning against actions meant to draw attention to one’s self rather than to truly worship God. The mention that “the Father knows what you need” would suggest that we don’t need to do anything to get God’s attention - He’s already there and listening. It’s suggesting to me that the problem with vain repetitions is that they puff up the piety of the petitioner rather than truly worshiping God.

 

[DebChris]

I took a look at the area around that passage. Here’s the instructions we find:

• Do not give to the poor publicly in order to be seen
• Do not pray loudly in front of others, to be seen by them
• Do not pray with repetitions, because God already knows what you need
• Do not fast in such a way as to make your fasting obvious

That would suggest to me that something similar is going on; namely, that Jesus is warning against actions meant to draw attention to one’s self rather than to truly worship God. The mention that “the Father knows what you need” would suggest that we don’t need to do anything to get God’s attention - He’s already there and listening. It’s suggesting to me that the problem with vain repetitions is that they puff up the piety of the petitioner rather than truly worshiping God.

The key part is “in order to be seen” by others.
The problem with the prayer of the publican over the prayer of the plebeian is that he was praying to himself. He was boasting of his holiness.

We read in the OT about David dancing in front of the Ark of the Covenant. When David danced in front of the Ark of the Covenant, he was not concerned about what other people thought about him. It didn’t matter that he was king. He was praising God.

When we come together as a community, we pray together with the words handed down through the generations. We are the people of God. Together we form the Church. We pray in unison as God’s people. “You will be my people, and I will be your God.”

Individually, within our own homes, we pray in our prayer corners. We dress in the morning and go about our daily routine. We do not put on sackcloth and ashes, or announce that we might be fasting. Some of still choose to follow the traditional practice of abstaining from meat on Friday, for instance. No big deal needs to be made of it. “I prefer not to eat meat on Friday.” Nobody asks me why. Many people are vegetarians, or have a meatless Monday.

 

[Operations66]

The Rosary is about fostering the meditation part. The repetition in this case is not vain; it facilitates the meditation.

 

[Vic_Taltrees_UK]

Why not ask your friend to talk about what kind of prayers she promotes rather than those she disapproves of.

The only thing Jesus was taking a pot shot at was ostentatious contrivances.

To repeat = rehearse in the sense of cultivate an audience.

 

[Joe_5859]

Praying a memorized prayer and praying “from the heart” are not mutually exclusive. Indeed, there is a common expression that when you memorize something you learn to do it “by heart.” We memorize the prayers in order to pray them from the heart.

I like to use the analogy of the guy trying to woo the girl. He shows up outside her house, guitar in hand. He throws a pebble at her window. No response. He throws another. She comes to the window and opens it to see him down below and starting to play. He begins to play a stirring acoustic rendition of “I Will Always Love You.” He is so in love that he wanted to do this special thing for his beloved to show her how special he thinks she is. He sings his heart out trying to convey to this girl just how much he loves her. Once he strums the final note, he looks wistfully up at the girl awaiting her response. She stares back at him. There is a pause. Then she says, “Couldn’t you have used your own words?” and she slams the window shut and disappears inside the house.

Now, would any girl actually respond that way? I sure hope not! The important element was not the words he chose but the love conveyed. Just because he sang words he did not write does not mean that he did not mean those words.

So too with our memorized prayers. They are our love songs to God. And, indeed, many of them are scriptural. The Our Father is the prayer Jesus gave us Himself. The Hail Mary is taken mostly all from Scripture. These are beautiful prayers, some composed by God Himself, and so we use them in our conversation with God.

Certainly, we do want to also use our own words in prayer, but using the time-tested, beautiful words of others to convey our own feelings and desires is not a bad thing, nor is it necessary to avoid it at all costs. That’s certainly not what God wanted. When asked “How do we pray?” Jesus gave his followers a prayer, not a methodology. So we should use it.

 

[Franciscan_Way]

Matthew 6:5-15 instructs us how to pray in a way that does not inflate our ego, but that God and not man sees. It then says "This is how you are to pray… The Our Father prayer is listed in it’s entirety; ending at verse 15.

I think that is evidence enough. I have explained the Rosary to a couple of Non-Catholic people and told them the reasons why we use it…petition, meditation, etc. It literally takes you through the life, death, and Resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ. They seem to have a better understand afterward.

 

[dje101]

My Protestant friend frequently brings up her quips about Catholicism. One of her biggest complaints is about how Catholics allegedly pray from memorization rather than from the heart. It’s her reasoning for not trying to pray the Rosary. How can I explain to her why Catholics memorize their prayers, and that repetition is not always vain?

I’ve explained to others that the memorized prayers that Catholics have are like those of the Psalms, in that, while spontaneous prayer is in fact very beautiful, there are times when maybe we just don’t know what to say. In these times, the Psalms and beautiful memorized prayers help direct us in our conversation toward God when our soul desires to reach out yet our mind lacks the words.