Valid Marriage?

[D317]

I married outside of the Church and did not ask the local bishop for permission. Is this considered a valid marriage by the Catholic Church?

 

[Bookcat]

You need to inquire with your local Pastor.

A Catholic is to observe the Catholic Form of Marriage or get permission to do otherwise…and if not…yes it can thus be not valid.

But perhaps you were working with a Catholic Priest and he make the request for you…like to get married to a non- Catholic in some other manner…???

 

[EricFilmer]

I married outside of the Church and did not ask the local bishop for permission. Is this considered a valid marriage by the Catholic Church?

As Bootcat stated, you should meet with your local pastor to go over the details. But just to delve into this in more detail, Canon Law states that for the sake of validity a Catholic is bound to follow the “canonical form of marriage”. This means that a Catholic is to marry another Catholic in a Catholic church (or other approved chapel), in front of a properly delegated Catholic priest or deacon as well as two witnesses, and exchange vows within the Catholic ritual for marriage. Any deviation from this “canonical form” requires formal permission from one’s bishop, which a couple’s pastor can seek to obtain on their behalf. This requirement is mandatory for the sake of validity even if a Catholic is unaware of such aspects of Canon Law (unless the Catholic in question formerly defected from the Catholic Faith prior to the marriage - as you can see, this can get pretty complicated, which is why it is good to have a priest help one to sort it all out).

If a couple is married outside of the canonical form of marriage without the bishop’s permission, then they can seek to get a convalidation (the old term for this is to have ones marriage “blessed”). Basically this means meeting with ones priest, going through the proper marriage preparation procedures, and then exchanging wedding vows in accordance with the canonical form of marriage. The previously invalid marriage then becomes sacramentally valid (the term convalidation means “with validation”).

If one or both members of the couple have been married before, and the former spouse(s) is/are still living, then an annulment investigation must first be done to determine whether or not a convalidation can take place. Once again, this is something to discuss with ones pastor.

 

[John_oxios]

I married outside of the Church and did not ask the local bishop for permission. Is this considered a valid marriage by the Catholic Church?

Hi,
The Church recognizes the commitment you made to each other,
the problem marrying outside the Catholic Church is that Protestant faiths since Martin Luther view it as a civil ceremony and not Sacramental.

. The Celebration of Marriage from the Catechism

#1621
In the Latin Rite the celebration of marriage between two Catholic faithful normally takes place during Holy Mass, because of the connection of all the sacraments with the Paschal mystery of Christ.120 In the Eucharist the memorial of the New Covenant is realized, the New Covenant in which Christ has united himself for ever to the Church, his beloved bride for whom he gave himself up.121 It is therefore fitting that the spouses should seal their consent to give themselves to each other through the offering of their own lives by uniting it to the offering of Christ for his Church made present in the Eucharistic sacrifice, and by receiving the Eucharist so that, communicating in the same Body and the same Blood of Christ, they may form but “one body” in Christ.

/www.usccb.org/catechism/text/pt2sect2chpt3art7.shtml

#1626
The Church holds the exchange of consent between the spouses to be the indispensable element that “makes the marriage.” If consent is lacking there is no marriage.

On Marriages outside the Church, from the Catechism see catechism:
usccb.org/laity/marriage/marriagefaqs.shtml

God Bless,
John

 

[1ke]

Hi,
The Church recognizes the commitment you made to each other,
the problem marrying outside the Catholic Church is that Protestant faiths since Martin Luther view it as a civil ceremony and not Sacramental.

This is wholly inaccurate.

 

[puzzleannie]

I married outside of the Church and did not ask the local bishop for permission. Is this considered a valid marriage by the Catholic Church?

not enough info.
are you Catholic?
what do you mean by “outside the Church?”
In general, a CAtholic who did not follow Catholic canon law, and you are Catholic, is not validly married. To find out aboutyour personal situation, see your Catholic pastor.

 

[John_oxios]

This is wholly inaccurate.

Which part? &
How so? The Church recognizes the commitment the Couple has made to each other in marriages made @ Civil ceremonies, ask your pastor, it doesn’t recognize it as a marriage just the commitment.

I’ve heard mine say so, during an RCIA class
Can anyone deny their commitment? It may not be Sacramental, nonetheless they have made a oath to each other.

As far as Martin Luther is concerned He believed the priests mad to much of themselves in the dispensing of the Sacraments and he took that power from his religion away, he also did not believe in Transubstantiation but consubstantiatian, in which when the person receives the Eucharist in Faith that it became the Body and Blood of Christ.

God Bless,
John

 

[puzzleannie]

How so? The Church recognizes the commitment the Couple has made to each other in marriages made @ Civil ceremonies, ask your pastor,.

I’ve heard mine say so, during an RCIA class
Can anyone deny their commitment? It may not be Sacramental, nonetheless they have made a oath to each other.

God Bless,
John

not enough info, as I said, yes you may have heard this in RCIA but was it in reference to marriages between 2 non-Catholics? which is likely in RCIA, then that is the truth, because the Church does recognize as valid marriages between non-Catholics who are otherwise free to marry. That does not however apply to Catholics who must adhere to canon law, and receive dispensations as needed to marry a non-Catholic, etc. OP did not specify, so there is no point giving him info that may not be true for him.

 

[John_oxios]

not enough info, as I said, yes you may have heard this in RCIA but was it in reference to marriages between 2 non-Catholics? which is likely in RCIA, then that is the truth, because the Church does recognize as valid marriages between non-Catholics who are otherwise free to marry. That does not however apply to Catholics who must adhere to canon law, and receive dispensations as needed to marry a non-Catholic, etc. OP did not specify, so there is no point giving him info that may not be true for him.

Hello,
No it was not in reference to two non Catholics, usually in a RCIA class one party is Catholic, and not a fully participant,or their future spouse has not received all the Sacraments, or non at all. I did not state the Church recognizes the Marriage outside the Church… I stated the Church recognizes the Commitment they have made to each other. In their civil vows But urges them to Marry in The Church. Things take time,

God bless,
John

 

[Matthew_Holford]

I married outside of the Church and did not ask the local bishop for permission. Is this considered a valid marriage by the Catholic Church?

No, if you are Catholic and were not married according to canonical form and were not granted a dispensation from canonical form your marriage is null and void.

 

[John_oxios]

No, if you are Catholic and were not married according to canonical form and were not granted a dispensation from canonical form your marriage is null and void.

  Actually the term is  'not valid'  according to the Church.   "Null and void" are terms used in an annulment,

CCC # 1629
For this reason (or for other reasons that render the marriage null and void) the Church, after an examination of the situation by the competent ecclesiastical tribunal, can declare the nullity of a marriage, i.e., that the marriage never existed.132 In this case the contracting parties are free to marry, provided the natural obligations of a previous union are discharged.

CCC# 1601 MARRIAGE: A covenant or partnership of life between a man and woman, which is ordered to the well-being of the spouses and to the procreation and upbringing of children. When validly contracted between two baptized people, marriage is a sacrament (Matrimony)

CCC #1637
In marriages with disparity of cult the Catholic spouse has a particular task: “For the unbelieving husband is consecrated through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is consecrated through her husband.” It is a great joy for the Christian spouse and for the Church if this “consecration” should lead to the free conversion of the other spouse to the Christian faith. Sincere married love, the humble and patient practice of the family virtues, and perseverance in prayer can prepare the non-believing spouse to accept the grace of conversion.

 

[Matthew_Holford]

Actually the term is ‘not valid’ according to the Church. “Null and void” are terms used in an annulment …

Yes, I know. We know what the OP meant without turning the discussion into one on semantics. My post, too, was in general day-to-day language. If we are going to be so precise you ought to know that one does not apply for an annulment but for a decree of nullity.

 

[John_oxios]

Yes, I know. We know what the OP meant without turning the discussion into one on semantics. My post, too, was in general day-to-day language. If we are going to be so precise you ought to know that one does not apply for an annulment but for a decree of nullity.

Hello Matthew,
Not precise, okay I can accept not being precise, but let’s be accurate with our information and compassionate to another’ s plight.

   To many hard core religious elite can and do keep people from coming by angering the questioner .     I look at it like this If you told me that my marriage was 'null and void' I'd turn away.   Null and void is a decree of the Church, not valid under the basis sacramental union rings a whole other truth.... it opens the door to the question, "How do I make what I have valid i the eyes of the Church?

We can build with a word or destroy with a word, I spent 25 yrs lapsed and 11 more finding my way back… The religious were of no help, but the deeply spiritual Catholics showed me and led me along the way. Your not going to bring anyone back to the fold telling them how wrong and disconnected they are, you can bring them back accepting where they are on the journey and helping them along.
Our doors are always open to those who desire to step in, even if its a return trip.

I quote the Catechism to show the difference, and the hope the Church shares for his return. I found your opinion and comment disconcerting.

Eric Filmer gave the best advice above.
God bless,
John

 

[Matthew_Holford]

I found your opinion and comment disconcerting.

Why, John? I’d genuinely like to know why.

Many posters come here to ask if their marriage is valid or null and void/‘invalid’. In most circumstances those questions are difficult to answer: often not enough information is given; these cases are often complex and we don’t know the full ‘picture’; no matter what other posters may advise the decision will be made by a tribunal, not members of CAF.

The circumstances outlined by the OP are easier to answer because ‘lack of canonical form’ cases are more straightforward - both for CAF members to comment on and in terms of the Tribunal procedure.

If a Catholic who marries without canonical form and without being granted a dispensation from canonical form her/his marriage is null and void.

The OP asked a simple question and I provided a simple answer. Why do you perceive my answer as wrong in some way?

 

[1ke]

The Church recognizes the commitment the Couple has made to each other in marriages made @ Civil ceremonies, ask your pastor, it doesn’t recognize it as a marriage just the commitment.

If neither party is Catholic, and there are no other impediments, the Church certainly recognizes the marriage as valid. If both parties are baptized it is also a sacrament. You have incorrectly stated that the Church “doesn’t recognize the marriage.” You also incorrectly stated the marriage is “not a sacrament” in a blanket manner. This is only the case when one or both parties are unbaptized. In that case, the marriage is a valid, natural marriage.

Marriages between non-Catholics are valid marriage, fully recognized by the Catholic Church as such.

If one or both parties are Catholic, and attempted marriage outside the Church without dispensation, then the marriage is invalid and the Church recognizes no part of it.

I’ve heard mine say so, during an RCIA class
Can anyone deny their commitment? It may not be Sacramental, nonetheless they have made a oath to each other.

You are confused, perhaps you misunderstood your priest or the specific situation to which he referred.

A marriage is either valid, in which case the Church fully recognizes it (whether it is a sacrament or a natural marriage) OR a marriage is invalid, in which case the Church does not and cannot recognize it as there is no marriage to recognize.

As far as Martin Luther is concerned He believed the priests mad to much of themselves in the dispensing of the Sacraments and he took that power from his religion away,

Which has nothing to do with whether or not a couple is validly married or whether or not their marriage is a sacrament if both are baptized.

 

[1ke]

. I did not state the Church recognizes the Marriage outside the Church… I stated the Church recognizes the Commitment they have made to each other. In their civil vows

And this is the statement that is wholly incorrect.

 

[John_oxios]

Why, John? I’d genuinely like to know why.

Many posters come here to ask if their marriage is valid or null and void/‘invalid’. In most circumstances those questions are difficult to answer: often not enough information is given; these cases are often complex and we don’t know the full ‘picture’; no matter what other posters may advise the decision will be made by a tribunal, not members of CAF.

The circumstances outlined by the OP are easier to answer because ‘lack of canonical form’ cases are more straightforward - both for CAF members to comment on and in terms of the Tribunal procedure.

If a Catholic who marries without canonical form and without being granted a dispensation from canonical form her/his marriage is null and void.

The OP asked a simple question and I provided a simple answer. Why do you perceive my answer as wrong in some way?

Hello Matthew,

Sorry, but over the years I’ve heard many a person angry, over people telling them their marriage is null and void and then they’ll add so my children are now bastards!
So they stopped short of inquiring the right way actually going to their Pastor and returning to The Church, I rather give them the Hope of reconciliation then tell them the life they shared with their loved ‘doesn’t count’ as null and void.

there is a right way and a wrong,  Jesus would have told a story, and left them questioning themselves to get them back on the right track.  We've lost to many catholics to protestant faiths to the wrong way to approach lapses inThe Faith.  There is no reconciliation without an attempt to reconciliate.

Back in the sixties it was tough you got divorced and you became pariah, I watched my Mom sit in the front pew proudly watching me at altar service in the Latin Rite Mass, my parents separated and Mom started falling back to the rear of the Church and then not going altogether when the Mass was Changed to English, I never bothered to learn it and gave up serving.
Bottom line is no one is perfect, not one righteous…Jesus wept because he had compassion for all sinners. The least we can do is try to be sensitive & compassionate to other peoples plights. Spent 11 yrs seeking God outside the Catholic Church, only to find that the Catholic Church is the Church founded By Christ, and it a mixed feeling to return, joy and painful.
Man has to change for the Church, the Church doesn’t change for the man. Life lesson
in the Spirits school of hard knocks… if only someone yrs. ago showed some compassion I may not have been gone so long! Or anyone else for that matter.

You seem to think you’re quoting the canon using the term ‘Null and void’
it says only invalid as a sacramental union… meaning there missing in the Union the blessing of Christ and the Church and the opportunity of being one with the body. that’s quite different than null and void. If by chance a person divorces his spouse married outside the Church, he’d only need a dispensation to return wholly to the fold. Not an annulment.

God bless,
John

 

[John_oxios]

And this is the statement that is wholly incorrect.

hello 1ke

          Are you saying the Church denys acknowledging their commitment they have  to each other? 
 That's a hard teaching
         ok  show me  where that is written,  and I'll bring it to the associate pastor who stated it.

God bless,
John

 

[Matthew_Holford]

Hello Matthew,

Sorry, but over the years I’ve heard many a person angry, over people telling them their marriage is null and void and then they’ll add so my children are now bastards!
So they stopped short of inquiring the right way actually going to their Pastor and returning to The Church, I rather give them the Hope of reconciliation then tell them the life they shared with their loved ‘doesn’t count’ as null and void.

there is a right way and a wrong,  Jesus would have told a story, and left them questioning themselves to get them back on the right track.  We've lost to many catholics to protestant faiths to the wrong way to approach lapses inThe Faith.  There is no reconciliation without an attempt to reconciliate.

Back in the sixties it was tough you got divorced and you became pariah, I watched my Mom sit in the front pew proudly watching me at altar service in the Latin Rite Mass, my parents separated and Mom started falling back to the rear of the Church and then not going altogether when the Mass was Changed to English, I never bothered to learn it and gave up serving.
Bottom line is no is perfect, not one righteous…Jesus wept because he had compassion for all sinners. The least we can do is try to be sensitive & compassionate to other peoples plights. Spent 11 yrs seeking God outside the Catholic Church, only to find that the Catholic Church is the Church founded By Christ, and it a mixed feeling to return, joy and painful.
Man has to change for the Church, the Church doesn’t change for the man. Life lesson
in the Spirits school of hard knocks… if only someone yrs. ago showed some compassion I may not have been gone so long! Or anyone else for that matter.

You seem to think you’re quoting the canon using the term ‘Null and void’
it says only invalid as a sacramental union… meaning there missing in the Union the blessing of Christ and the Church and the opportunity of being one with the body. that’s quite different than null and void. If by chance a person divorces his spouse married outside the Church, he’d only need a dispensation to return wholly to the fold. Not an annulment.

God bless,
John

I did, and only did, what the OP asked. If the OP asked if my marriage may be null and void because I’m not sure if I properly gave consent at the time of my marriage I’d say go and see your parish priest and based on his advice you might take your question to a tribunal.

Lack of canonical form is easy. There was either canonical form or there wasn’t. No canonical form - no valid marriage. As far as I am aware there is three possibilities for the OP:

1. Take the case to a tribunal who will almost certainly issue a decree of nullity
2. Have a marriage in the Catholic Church observing canonical form
3. Get dispensation from canonical form - I’m not sure if this can be granted retrospectively or if they’d have to apply for it and then have a non-Catholic marriage service.

I was not citing canon law (I’d give a reference if I was) or trying to set myself up as a canon lawyer; null and void is the correct term.

I don’t have the literary skill to wrap my advice up in a parable.

 

[Matthew_Holford]

hello 1ke

          Are you saying the Church denys acknowledging their commitment they have  to each other? 
 That's a hard teaching
         ok  show me  where that is written,  and I'll bring it to the associate pastor who stated it.

God bless,
John

That may be difficult. The Church does not have a comprehensive list of “thou shalt not …” for every possible situation. Can you show where the Church teaches what you claim his Her teaching?