Validity of confessions in Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox churches

[truthseekerjay]

There could be a large range of reasons. I think the one that’s in my mind (and maybe Jack’s) would be social pressures. Not actual persecution, but “All my friends are X, they’ll like me less if I switch to Catholicism; X is close enough, I’m not actually going to switch because it’s too much of a hassle; I like my Orthodox priest better than the guy at the Catholic church”

There could be just reason for not switching, but there are lots of unjust reasons as well. Ideally, everyone would behave exactly in accordance with their beliefs, but if that were the case, we would never steal, cheat, lie, lust, or any other sin.

I just want to summarize what I’ve read so far:
A practicing RC can ONLY receive absolution from an EO/OO priest under SPECIAL circumstances.
A practicing EO/OO can REGULARLY receive absolution from EO/OO priests respectively PROVIDED that they don’t know any better about RC.

Let’s reverse the situation that I quoted above. Let’s say we have a person who, in his heart, believes in the doctrines of EO. However, due to social pressures (or perhaps persecution), he attends an RC church and participates in their activities instead (despite truly wanting to attend an EO church). Does he get absolution from confessing to an RC priest?

 

[Jack007]

I just want to summarize what I’ve read so far:
A practicing RC can ONLY receive absolution from an EO/OO priest under SPECIAL circumstances.
A practicing EO/OO can REGULARLY receive absolution from EO/OO priests respectively PROVIDED that they don’t know any better about RC.

Let’s reverse the situation that I quoted above. Let’s say we have a person who, in his heart, believes in the doctrines of EO. However, due to social pressures (or perhaps persecution), he attends an RC church and participates in their activities instead (despite truly wanting to attend an EO church). Does he get absolution from confessing to an RC priest?

What you have read is correct and the person receives absolution in that case.

 

[RyanBlack]

You forgot the oriental orthodox, and iirc, coe

If by “coe” you refer to the Assyrian Church of the East, then you are correct.

 

[jimmy]

I tried to search for previous threads for this topic, but wasn’t successful, so I apologize if my search was too narrow. I actually have more than one question, but let’s start off with this. Assuming a person is truly sorry, do confessions done in EO and OO churches lead to absolution of sins?

If the answer is yes, please indicate the conditions that were met for absolution to occur. Here are some examples of possible conditions:

1. Absolution occurred because confession was done in front of an ordained priest in that particular denomination (versus confession done to a layperson).
2. Absolution occurred because EO is similar enough to Roman Catholicism (versus confession done in a Mormon church).

Also, if the answer is yes, is there a good source that I can read that lists ALL the criteria that have to be met? This way, I can save posters time from having to list them here.

There are no conditions; the Catholic Church recognizes the validity of all Orthodox - both Eastern and Oriental - sacraments. This is because the recognize the priesthood in these churches.

 

[jimmy]

I understand that going to an EO church for confession isn’t the preferred method. However, since absolution CAN happen under certain circumstances with an EO priest, doesn’t that imply that there may be a more “universal” criteria (ie true repentance regardless of who is present) rather than the presence of a Roman Catholic priest?

Who decides the exceptions to the rule?

It is up to the Individual and the Orthodox priest (or his bishop) to determine whether he situation grants an exception. The Catholic Church might allow a Catholic to receive a sacrament from an Orthodox priest under certain circumstances, but the reverse might not be true. The Orthodox might not allow it. Beyond that a man must follow his conscience. That should be his guide on when a situation grants that he go to an Orthodox priest.

Repentance is a prerequisite of the sacrament of penance, whether you are Catholic or Orthodox. The question though is whether a church has valid orders, which is determined by apostolic origin and orthodoxy of faith.

 

[Jack007]

If by “coe” you refer to the Assyrian Church of the East, then you are correct.

Yes

 

[Jack007]

I understand that going to an EO church for confession isn’t the preferred method. However, since absolution CAN happen under certain circumstances with an EO priest, doesn’t that imply that there may be a more “universal” criteria (ie true repentance regardless of who is present) rather than the presence of a Roman Catholic priest?

Who decides the exceptions to the rule?

absolution can happen whenever they use form,matter,intent.

 

[truthseekerjay]

What you have read is correct and the person receives absolution in that case.

This was your response when I brought up the following scenario:
Let’s reverse the situation that I quoted above. Let’s say we have a person who, in his heart, believes in the doctrines of EO. However, due to social pressures (or perhaps persecution), he attends an RC church and participates in their activities instead (despite truly wanting to attend an EO church). Does he get absolution from confessing to an RC priest?

Wouldn’t this be lying to oneself though? How is he getting absolved through an RC priest when, in reality, he’s ONLY confessing to the RC priest due to social pressure and not because he actually believes in RC doctrine?

The next question may be slightly off topic, but the answer may help me understand the situation above. If someone got baptized in an RC church ONLY due to social pressure or perhaps JUST to marry a significant other who practices RC, is that baptism valid?

 

[Jack007]

a sacrament is ex opere operato. its validity does not depend on the disposition of recipient. Nonetheless, according to the teaching of the Catholic Church, to make the fruits of the sacraments requires that a person be properly disposed. get it?

 

[truthseekerjay]

a sacrament is ex opere operato. its validity does not depend on the disposition of recipient. Nonetheless, according to the teaching of the Catholic Church, to make the fruits of the sacraments requires that a person be properly disposed. get it?

In some Asian religions (ie Hinduism, Buddhism), the worship of gods and how people practice is relatively lax. Apparently, they can incorporate the practices of other religions (even foreign deities) into their “regular” practice. I have a couple RC friends who are or were in relationships with a practicing Buddhist. The Buddhist partner would attend church with them and some of them would actually take communion (btw, I know taking communion before getting baptized is wrong). However, if the Buddhist partner actually decided to get baptized and regularly went to confession AND still practiced Buddhism, would their sins be absolved?

Also, in Asian religions, it seems as if deities are just manifestations of a bigger, more universal god. Therefore, a Buddhist may be using Jesus’s name and still be worshipping his god. The reason I bring this up is because I feel that its possible for a Buddhist to actually be taking the act of confession seriously without really worshipping Jesus. What are your ideas on this?

 

[Jack007]

In some Asian religions (ie Hinduism, Buddhism), the worship of gods and how people practice is relatively lax. Apparently, they can incorporate the practices of other religions (even foreign deities) into their “regular” practice. I have a couple RC friends who are or were in relationships with a practicing Buddhist. The Buddhist partner would attend church with them and some of them would actually take communion (btw, I know taking communion before getting baptized is wrong). However, if the Buddhist partner actually decided to get baptized and regularly went to confession AND still practiced Buddhism, would their sins be absolved?

Also, in Asian religions, it seems as if deities are just manifestations of a bigger, more universal god. Therefore, a Buddhist may be using Jesus’s name and still be worshipping his god. The reason I bring this up is because I feel that its possible for a Buddhist to actually be taking the act of confession seriously without really worshipping Jesus. What are your ideas on this?

the priest can refuse to give absolution. but if the priest gives it,he is forgiven. confession is ex opere operato.

 

[benhur]

To be honest, I think it’s hard to perform a perfect act of contrition and I would say that over 90% of the time, most people are probably making an imperfect act. During a person’s last moments, it seems like the only thing that really matters for salvation and that would make a difference would be the presence of a valid priest to confess to. Would you say that ultimately, luck (as far as being lucky enough to have a valid priest present) is what really matters during a person’s last moments? For example, a person could have been performing PERFECT acts of contrition throughout his life and could have been living a “good” life, but if for some reason, he wasn’t really perfect in contrition during the moments before his death, then what really matters is if he was lucky enough to have a valid priest around rather than the way he lived his life?

When did early bishops, the early church, have time to think all this stuff up, to seek out such hair splitting theology ? The good thing is it portrays OT (and New) absoluteness of all Truth. The bad thing it may also portray the OT (and now New) of over thinking at the cost of muddling true spiritual intent.

 

[Jack007]

When did early bishops, the early church, have time to think all this stuff up, to seek out such hair splitting theology ? The good thing is it portrays OT (and New) absoluteness of all Truth. The bad thing it may also portray the OT (and now New) of over thinking at the cost of muddling true spiritual intent.

i did not understand.

 

[truthseekerjay]

the priest can refuse to give absolution. but if the priest gives it,he is forgiven. confession is ex opere operato.

I just want to make sure that it’s clear. So the Buddhist, using Jesus’s name to actually pray to his PAGAN god can receive absolution from an RC priest, assuming he is at least somewhat sorry for his sins?

 

[Jack007]

I just want to make sure that it’s clear. So the Buddhist, using Jesus’s name to actually pray to his PAGAN god can receive absolution from an RC priest, assuming he is at least somewhat sorry for his sins?

he will get absolved if the priest does not refuse to absolve him

 

[truthseekerjay]

he will get absolved if the priest does not refuse to absolve him

So essentially, under special circumstances, the worship of Jesus is NOT necessarily a requirement for absolution?

 

[SeekerOfIron]

So essentially, under special circumstances, the worship of Jesus is NOT necessarily a requirement for absolution?

I’m going to let Jack answer that, but I think the first part of CCC 1260 is relevant: “Since Christ died for all, and since all men are in fact called to one and the same destiny, which is divine, we must hold that the Holy Spirit offers to all the possibility of being made partakers, in a way known to God, of the Paschal mystery.” Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved."

Also, this thread (forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=908090) uses more Catholic jargon than we’ve been using here, but I’m finding it useful and relevant to this thread. A couple posts in, they start discussing why the Orthodox have valid confessions. I’m going to have to reflect and think more on it, but it is shifting my understanding of the subject, and I might have to retract some things I’ve said in this thread after I sort it out for myself. My apologies if anything I’ve said turns out to be wrong and has misled you.

 

[Jack007]

So essentially, under special circumstances, the worship of Jesus is NOT necessarily a requirement for absolution?

As i keep saying, the priest can refuse to give absolution. but if the priest gives it, it is valid. The worship of Jesus is NOT necessarily a requirement for absolution. the requirements are form,matter,intent and faculty.
Thank you, seekerofiron, for letting me answer this.

 

[Rob_Arnzen]

… Assuming a person is truly sorry, do confessions done in EO and OO churches lead to absolution of sins? …

… Also, if the answer is yes, is there a good source that I can read that lists ALL the criteria that have to be met? This way, I can save posters time from having to list them here.

The answer requires more information. Is “a person” a Catholic, Orthodox, or another Christian?

The reason this is important is because absolution of sins through the sacrament of confession involves jurisdiction. Normally an Orthodox priest lacks faculties for hearing the confessions of Catholics.

Exceptions are made for necessity, such as danger of death.

Aside from jurisdiction, Orthodox orders are considered valid, and so the sacraments of the Orthodox churches are valid. Canonical requirements still have to be met for confessions and marriage.

.

 

[Gorgias]

I just want to make sure that it’s clear. So the Buddhist, using Jesus’s name to actually pray to his PAGAN god can receive absolution from an RC priest, assuming he is at least somewhat sorry for his sins?

Jack007:

he will get absolved if the priest does not refuse to absolve him

So essentially, under special circumstances, the worship of Jesus is NOT necessarily a requirement for absolution?

If you don’t mind me butting in, I’m going to take a hack at this…

I would answer that no, the priest’s absolution is not valid in this case. However, that does not (necessarily) mean that the pagan’s sins are not absolved. (I know, it sounds confusing… but bear with me.)

If I walked into a confessional and said, “Forgive me Father, for I have sinned; this is my first confession (since I am really a pagan and don’t really believe in Jesus)”, then (I sure hope that!) the priest would have a nice discussion with me about faith in Jesus and about forgiveness of sins, and then send me on my way without absolution. After all, baptism is the gateway to all the other sacraments, and none of the other sacraments may be validly received without it.

On the other hand, if (in my pagan-ness) I walked into the confessional and pretended to be a Catholic, then the priest might say the words, but what really would be happening in that case would be an act of deception: I’d be (implicitly) deceiving the priest into believing that I was a Catholic who has the ability to approach the sacraments. The priest could say the words all he wants, and he might think that he validly absolved me of my sins… but God would know better. Remember: Catholicism isn’t magic! It’s not that we have the magic words of incantation and through these words we can trick God into doing something that He doesn’t want to do!

However, does this imply that the pagan, who seeks forgiveness in the context of the Sacrament of Reconciliation, is denied forgiveness by God? Not necessarily… as SeekerOfIron has pointed out, God wants all to come to Him in love. So, if a person (blamelessly – that is, without intent of deception) sought forgiveness of God in confession, then it’s a possibility that God would, indeed, forgive him. (It’s important to note that this absolutely is not a good approach! After all, this person would leave the confessional, hearing the words of absolution, but would not AT ALL know whether he was forgiven by God! That’s a game of chicken that’s way too dangerous to play!) Again, we’re not saying that there’s magic going on here, or that the priest is effective or not – rather, we’re simply saying that priests have been given power by Jesus (in their ordination) and the ability by their bishop (in being granted faculties) to forgive the sins of Catholics… and that’s all! (Since the Orthodox Church is a valid Church, the opportunity to receive absolution by a Catholic priest extends to them, as well, in certain situations.)

Jay, you asked when an absolution by a Catholic priest might be valid for an Orthodox Christian (or vice versa; it doesn’t matter). The answer is simple: the absolution is always valid. However, the question to be asked isn’t “when is an absolution valid?”, it’s “when is it licit to seek absolution?”. That’s a completely different question. It’s kind of like asking, “when does a bartender actually serve beer to a customer?” – the answer is “every time he pours one for him!”. But, the important question would be “when does a bartender licitly (i.e., legally) serve beer to a customer?” – and the answer to that question would be “when the customer is 21 or older!” It’s a question of liceity, not validity. Are you familiar with the use of these terms in a Catholic context?

Blessings,
G.