Vasectomy and respecting my wife's catholic faith

[Lampo]

And just because the Church says it’s so doesn’t make it so.

Actually in this case it does make it so. A sin is a sin whether you recognize it as such or not. It is a truth revealed by God through His Church, which was promised to be lead into all truth by the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

“A fallacy doesn’t cease to be a fallacy because it becomes fashionable.” -G.K. Chesterton

 

[aloejamb]

The Bible teaches that when a married couple comes together, the two become one flesh. The CCC clearly points out that the union of marriage is a way of imitating “in the flesh the Creator’s generosity” CCC 2335}

We are ALL called to be chaste…yes, even married couples. Chastity is NOT synonymous with celibacy. Chastity is mastering ones impulses and desires.
This is what I spoke about in having true freedom. The Church teaches that we are called to respect the bodies of our spouse and encourage tenderness…this, it says, is authentic freedom.
Married love is meant to be fruitful…just as the PP stated.

If we are “clothed in Christ” at our baptism just as the Bible teaches and we are created in the image and likeness of our Creator…it is quite clear where the Church got this “gem” as AeroChunky puts it.

Married love is to be fruitful. We are all called to be open to life.

 

[kage_ar]

Non Catholic Christians may find this of interest:

nationallifechain.org/Contra.pdf

 

[AeroChunky]

AeroChunky,
Are you aware that up until the 1930’s all Christian denominations, (including Luther and Calvin themselves) condemned ABC. What changed in 1930? God, or society? Are you willing to say that God changed?

Well, Up until the 1930’s how was our understanding of medicine in this field? Pretty much nil.

I don’t think god changed, because I don’t think he ever said anything about Contraception. It’s a Catholic mindset that was still part of protestant thinking for a while.
I can’t see or have it proven that God’s will is thus. How much did Jesus speak of the evils of the world, and sins. The Bible is also full of do and don’ts on sexual sins…was there ever talk about this? Nope.
And believe me that condoms were around in those days, also herbs and methods….

 

[AeroChunky]

A sin is a sin whether you recognize it as such or not.

As sin is a sin because God, through His word defined is as such. Was contraception or sterilization ever defined in Scripture? Nope.
In my previous post:
*I can’t see or have it proven that God’s will is thus. How much did Jesus speak of the evils of the world, and sins. The Bible is also full of do and don’ts on sexual sins…was there ever talk about this? Nope.
And believe me that condoms were around in those days, also herbs and methods….

It is a truth revealed by God through His Church, which was promised to be lead into all truth by the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

This is the subjective part that Catholics cling to…

 

[Lampo]

As sin is a sin because God, through His word defined is as such.

Written AND spoken word.

Was contraception or sterilization ever defined in Scripture? Nope.

Why do you limit yourself only to Scripture? Why not open yourself to the FULLNESS of truth? You are only getting a piece of the pie. Why not treat yourself to the WHOLE pie?

This is the subjective part that Catholics cling to…

You can disregard a revealed truth if you wish.

 

[GailMac]

Dear Johnhahn - you state:“Since it’s really my body that would have to go through the procedure, and my personal faith does not specifically speak of the procedure as a sin, would my wife be sinning if I go through with the operation with her knowing? What if I don’t tell her? - this is hypothetical, as I would surely tell her before I went through with it.”
Have you not heard your body is not your own. It belongs to God and your wife. I’m sure you don’t reeeeeeally want to sacrifice your fertility to the idol lust. Not only would you be breaking your marital covenant with your wife, you’d also be breaking your promises to God. And you expect good to come out of that decision? I’m glad that you are still talking about this. I think your wife has more sense in her head than you do at this point. God bless you man. Maybe you should listen to her and the Church.

Peace,

Gail

P.S. Father Serpa is here at Catholic answers and there are some wonderful tracts about this subject.

 

[AeroChunky]

Why do you limit yourself only to Scripture? Why not open yourself to the FULLNESS of truth? You are only getting a piece of the pie. Why not treat yourself to the WHOLE pie?

Because your “Whole Pie” is all subjective truths.

 

[Lampo]

Because your “Whole Pie” is all subjective truths.

Oh, I see where you are coming from, I think. You are wanting cold, hard facts, right? Like the ones that explain the mystery of the Trinity or hypostatic union.

 

[Lampo]

Because your “Whole Pie” is all subjective truths.

Oh, I see where you are coming from, I think. You are wanting cold, hard facts, right? Like the ones that explain the mystery of the Trinity or hypostatic union.

Sacred Scripture is part of the whole pie.

 

[AeroChunky]

Oh, I see where you are coming from, I think. You are wanting cold, hard facts, right? Like the ones that explain the mystery of the Trinity or hypostatic union.

Trinity:
Matthew 28:16
Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the **Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit, **

Hypostatic Union:
Jesus freely admits that He is God’s Son when He’s on trial. It’s a term used by Apollinaris of Laodicea to describe what is spoken by Jesus. That He is Divine and Human.

 

[AeroChunky]

Johnhahn, I think I hijacked your thread, sorry!
I’ll bow out to keep it focussed on your specifi situation.

 

[Lampo]

Johnhahn, I think I hijacked your thread, sorry!
I’ll bow out to keep it focussed on your specifi situation.

Me too. Sorry about that Johnhahn. I’ll be more than happy to continue our discussion somewhere else AC, if you wish.

 

[gardenswithkids]

AeroChunky is a man who paid a doctor do this :knight2: to his private parts.

Ouch. :knight1:

The original poster is considering the same procedure against the wishes of his wife. To the original poster, setting scripture and Catholic teaching aside, what if your first reaction to a description of a vasectomy? Most men I’ve seen, (even Protestant men), usually instinctively guard themselves when the topic is discussed. :knight1: That instinctive reaction should help clue you into the fact that it is *not *natural to let doctors slice apart your to healthy vas deferons.

Again, setting Catholic teachings aside for the moment, there are some negative side effects to vasectomies that you should be aware of. Some of these would seriously impact your sexual relationship with your wife. According to a non-Catholic website on men’s health can include chronic pain, impotence, and erectile dysfunction. (As I write this, I wonder if the prevalence of this procedure relates to the prevelence of ads for ed medicines I see on tv ) http://menshealth.about.com/od/genitalsexualissues/f/Vasectomy_FAQ3.htm

 

[rpp]

Well, Up until the 1930’s how was our understanding of medicine in this field? Pretty much nil.

That is not correct. People have know for thousands of years how babies are made and for thousands of years had methods that attempted to prevent it. St. Augustine himself, writing in the 5th century, condemned contraception.

So come on, answer the question. What changed, society or God?

 

[jmcrae]

Hi everyone -

Here’s my background - I’m an evangelical Christian and my wife is Roman Catholic. We currently have 3 children together. We have attempted to practice natural family planning, although our 3 children were conceived while we were trying to prevent conception with NFP -

I’m betting you love them all, and that you’re glad they were born, even though that wasn’t the original plan, from your point of view.

my wife and I went to all the NFP classes and according to the instructor, we were following the NFP rules correctly. We are at a point now where we do not even have intercourse due to not trusting the NFP method and not taking birth control pills due to the Catholic teachings against it, which I respect on her behalf.

It may be that the two of you need to review the wide variety of methods available, and find one that is better suited to your situation.

It may also be that God wanted to create those children of yours - in which case, no amount of NFP, vasectomy, pill or etc. would have done you any good. I know a few “pill” kids, and even one or two “vasectomy” kids.

Because of my faith, I also know that none of them were accidents, from God’s point of view. God created each and every one of them on purpose.

Peter Kreeft once said something to the effect that, sex is the bond of the marital union that makes the two into one - sometimes, so one, that the two need to buy a crib and think of a name for the one.

 

[AeroChunky]

So come on, answer the question. What changed, society or God?

God remains indifferent towards contraception.

 

[gardenswithkids]

God remains indifferent towards contraception.

Saying that implies that God is also indifferent towards conception. Do you really believe that God isn’t concerned about if we have children or not?

 

[tmacsrose]

Vasectomy is a mutilation of your own body. Jesus and the Bible does talk about how self-mutiliation is wrong. Perhaps it does not just say that contraception is wrong in an absolutely clear way, but it does talk about potions and other forms of birth control as being evil.

Besides, the Bible does clearly say in Timothy 3:15, “But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the Church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the Truth.” St. Paul says that the Church, not the Bible is “the pillar and foundation of the Truth.” Maybe you should not so much search the Scriptures in order to find out if contraception is wrong, but rather to discover that the Church does have the authority to teach because it was founded by Christ as our visible guide!

 

[rpp]

God remains indifferent towards contraception.

And you base this on what? That attitude is certainly contradicted in the Bible. God killed a man for contraception (Genesis 38). Clearly God is not indifferent.

Rather it is YOU deciding that this is something YOU want to do and it is YOU who are indifferent to God’s commandments.

A husband who contracepts or cooperates in contracepttion is merely using his wife as a sexual plaything. The same is true for the wife. It is not an expression of love, it is a denial and it is use. There is no self donation, just selfishness.