Vasectomy reversal required?

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atassina

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is a vasectomy reversal required in order to stand righteously before God? what are we taught by canon law and Catholic moral teaching?
please give answers based on certain knowledge and not just personal opinion or good guesses.
 
I think the best way to put it is this way. Getting a reversal is in no way attached as a condition of absolution for the sin. Part of being contrite about a sin we have committed though is the desire to set things right. For example while a thief who stole a $1000 can receive absolution for the sin regardless as to whether he returns the money or not, it is almost assumed the thief will return the money/repay the debt if he/she has the means to do so. So while its not required, someone who is contrite for their sin, understands why it was wrong, and has the means to do so would probably seek to reverse it.
 
Nate: i guess what i am looking for is a reference from an official Church source, something that is authoritative. i want to be able to show this couple concrete evidence.
 
The requirement for non-reversal was published in a letter from the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith on May 13, 1977 under the direction of Pope Paul VI. The title of the letter is “Decreto circa l’impotenza che rende nullo il matrimoni” (roughly “Decree about impotence that invalidates marriage”) and can be found here. Sorry, it’s only in Italian, Spanish, Latin, French and Polish.

In essence it asks 2 questions. First, does antecedent and perpetual impotence invalidate a marriage? Answer: yes. Secondly, in the conjugal act must semen from the testes be discharged? Answer: no.

That being said, that is the minimum requirement. Many pastors would encourage a couple that can afford to get a reversal to do so. True contrition often requires more than the bare minimum (aka meeting the letter of the law).
 
Usige said:
The requirement for non-reversal was published in a letter from the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith on May 13, 1977 under the direction of Pope Paul VI. The title of the letter is “Decreto circa l’impotenza che rende nullo il matrimoni” (roughly “Decree about impotence that invalidates marriage”) and can be found here. Sorry, it’s only in Italian, Spanish, Latin, French and Polish.

In essence it asks 2 questions. First, does antecedent and perpetual impotence invalidate a marriage? Answer: yes. Secondly, in the conjugal act must semen from the testes be discharged? Answer: no.

That being said, that is the minimum requirement. Many pastors would encourage a couple that can afford to get a reversal to do so. True contrition often requires more than the bare minimum (aka meeting the letter of the law).
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When the Church does not require a reversal it is not up to you to advise that men should have one otherwise it means they are not being truly contrite. You are way our of your depth on this one.
 
thistle said:
When the Church does not require a reversal it is not up to you to advise that men should have one otherwise it means they are not being truly contrite. You are way our of your depth on this one.
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Read my whole statement again, “Many PASTORS would encourage …” (emphasis added for those that cannot read). I have talked to many and they are the ones that have told me that they suggest reversals when a couple can afford it. For many it help assuage the guilt of having done so.

Jump on my case all you want, but I shared where and when the teaching was promulgated (seem to be the only person who did) and my personal experiences from talking about this with several priests. Like it or not I answered the OP’s question and shared my experiences.
 
atassina said:
I’m the OP. usige, what says you?
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I have shared where and when it was promulgated. Not sure what else to say.

I will share with you what I have talked to several privately on this board about getting reversals. See, before I came to the church I had had a vasectomy after my two oldest children were born. As I read the Church’s teaching on how the conjugal act relates to marriage I came to both a sense of deep regret and set out to amend my life as the Church teaches. After my first confession (I set it up early in RCIA) I felt I could not in good conscience continue down the path I was on and still receive the sacraments. I felt to truly amend my life I had to right as many wrongs as I could. After talking to my wife and priest I decided to get a reversal done (yes Father said it wasn’t required, but he applauded my decision to place my trust in God). Since my reversal was done 8.5 years after the original vasectomy I had less than a 50% chance of having children. I had the surgery done about 2 weeks before I was received into the Church and we learned we were expecting our 3rd child (the 1st after the reversal) about 8 weeks after I was received. Five and a half years later and I am currently holding our 5th on my lap as I type.

So based on Church teaching; no it is not required. But based on my sure knowledge, God blesses us abundantly when we place our trust in him.
 
Usige said:
Read my whole statement again, “Many PASTORS would encourage …” (emphasis added for those that cannot read). I have talked to many and they are the ones that have told me that they suggest reversals when a couple can afford it. For many it help assuage the guilt of having done so.

Jump on my case all you want, but I shared where and when the teaching was promulgated (seem to be the only person who did) and my personal experiences from talking about this with several priests. Like it or not I answered the OP’s question and shared my experiences.
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First, How many pastors have you asked the question to? Also it strikes me as a strange question to be seeking out many priests’ views on.

Second, your comment: “True contrition often requires more than the bare minimum (aka meeting the letter of the law).” does not say this was the opinion of the many pastors you have talked to. This is a separate comment which any reader would view as your opinion.

If a man wants to get a reversal that’s fine. However, it is not required and nobody, not even a priest, should be telling men they should get one because it means they are not truly contrite if they don’t get one.

To the OP. Don’t worry. A reversal is NOT required.
 
thistle said:
First, How many pastors have you asked the question to? Also it strikes me as a strange question to be seeking out many priests’ views on.
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I have talked to 6 or 7 that I can think of off the top of my head. Why would I have talked to them about it? I do marriage prep, adult catechists and occasionally teach on theology of the body. As part of that we almost always have the question come up about sterilization and if getting a reversal is pleasing to God. Because I have worked in a number of parishes I have talked to the pastors to make sure I do not step on their toes.
thistle said:
Second, your comment: “True contrition often requires more than the bare minimum (aka meeting the letter of the law).” does not say this was the opinion of the many pastors you have talked to. This is a separate comment which any reader would view as your opinion.
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Yes??? You obviously figured out it was my opinion and I expect others did too. I was pretty specific about the fact the Church allows it. That being said I have talked to several men that have came to the same conclusion as I have. For us (:bluelite: **OPINION ALERT **:bluelite:) we felt that the depth of our contrition required us to correct the wrong we had done. Does that mean others have to? No, but I have talked to a good number of men (say 25+, I don’t keep records) that have an uneasy feeling about letting their vasectomies stand. Just like in confession we might only be given a penance of three Hail Mary, but out of contrition we might say a full decade or more. Perhaps we chose to work in a soup kitchen because we had been selfish and miserly in our charity. My statement was geared to the fact that many men (not all or even most) who have came back to the Church feel they are called to do more than just follow the letter of the law. The statement was really meant to have the couple ask themselves to question if God is calling them to do more. If the answer is “no” good for them, but that is not the answer for all of us.
 
Usige said:
I have talked to 6 or 7 that I can think of off the top of my head. Why would I have talked to them about it? I do marriage prep, adult catechists and occasionally teach on theology of the body. As part of that we almost always have the question come up about sterilization and if getting a reversal is pleasing to God. Because I have worked in a number of parishes I have talked to the pastors to make sure I do not step on their toes.

Yes??? You obviously figured out it was my opinion and I expect others did too. I was pretty specific about the fact the Church allows it. That being said I have talked to several men that have came to the same conclusion as I have. For us (:bluelite: **OPINION ALERT **:bluelite:) we felt that the depth of our contrition required us to correct the wrong we had done. Does that mean others have to? No, but I have talked to a good number of men (say 25+, I don’t keep records) that have an uneasy feeling about letting their vasectomies stand. Just like in confession we might only be given a penance of three Hail Mary, but out of contrition we might say a full decade or more. Perhaps we chose to work in a soup kitchen because we had been selfish and miserly in our charity. My statement was geared to the fact that many men (not all or even most) who have came back to the Church feel they are called to do more than just follow the letter of the law. The statement was really meant to have the couple ask themselves to question if God is calling them to do more. If the answer is “no” good for them, but that is not the answer for all of us.
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Fortunately the Church’s position trumps all. Reversal of a vasectomy is not required and a priest cannot tell a penitent to have a reversal.
 
Cool, so you can have a vasectomy and then confess(and be sorry for it of cuse) it and enjoy sex for the rest of you life. lol
 
I’m the OP. usige, i appreciate both your accurate rendering of Church teaching and the courageous revealing of your personal experience. thank you for answering my question the way i asked it. you gave me the answer that i needed and was looking for. i have found both courage and truth in what you have written and done. you have taken the heroic path. you have sought and completed more than was required of you.

Remember the parable in which Jesus tells us that we are worthless* servants if we only do what is required of us. He accords no special credit to completing the requirements of Church law. However, your heroic action through the vasectomy reversal is one of the characteristics of a saint-- heroic virtue.

You have encourage me as a man even though I have never had a vasectomy. may God bless you.
  • :bluelite: Opinion Alert :bluelite: i think the word “worthless” is merely rabbinic hyperbole and not a mathematical delineation of completing the requirements of what God asks us to do. therefore, thistle you are correct. we are not required to go beyond the minimum that the Church asks us to do. i want to do more than the bare minimum and hope to have the courage that usage showed. for example, if someone steal my life savings, pays off the mortgages on his business and home, pays off the debts on all his children’s educations, pays off all other debts and secures his retirement with investments and is living a comfortable and secure life, is he required to pay back the money he stole upon sorrow, contrition and confession? Answer: no. it seems to me there is a matter of justice in paying it back when he is able to. justice is giving someone what is due him. what is due to God in any situation of sin?
 
atassina said:
I’m the OP. usige, i appreciate both your accurate rendering of Church teaching and the courageous revealing of your personal experience. thank you for answering my question the way i asked it. you gave me the answer that i needed and was looking for. i have found both courage and truth in what you have written and done. you have taken the heroic path. you have sought and completed more than was required of you.

Remember the parable in which Jesus tells us that we are worthless* servants if we only do what is required of us. He accords no special credit to completing the requirements of Church law. However, your heroic action through the vasectomy reversal is one of the characteristics of a saint-- heroic virtue.

You have encourage me as a man even though I have never had a vasectomy. may God bless you.
  • :bluelite: Opinion Alert :bluelite: i think the word “worthless” is merely rabbinic hyperbole and not a mathematical delineation of completing the requirements of what God asks us to do. therefore, thistle you are correct. we are not required to go beyond the minimum that the Church asks us to do. i want to do more than the bare minimum and hope to have the courage that usage showed. for example, if someone steal my life savings, pays off the mortgages on his business and home, pays off the debts on all his children’s educations, pays off all other debts and secures his retirement with investments and is living a comfortable and secure life, is he required to pay back the money he stole upon sorrow, contrition and confession? Answer: no. it seems to me there is a matter of justice in paying it back when he is able to. justice is giving someone what is due him. what is due to God in any situation of sin?
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Again you are trying to impose your opinion on all 1.2 billion Catholics. I didn’t realise we had more than one Pope. Your opinion is not relevant. The OP asked if a reversal is required. The answer is that the Church says no!
 
thistle: you are correct. we are not required.

Luke 17:9-10
7 “Will any one of you, who has a servant plowing or keeping sheep, say to him when he has come in from the field, ‘Come at once and sit down at table’? 8 Will he not rather say to him, ‘Prepare supper for me, and gird yourself and serve me, till I eat and drink; and afterward you shall eat and drink’? 9 Does he thank the servant because he did what was commanded? 10 So you also, when you have done all that is commanded you, say, ‘We are unworthy servants; we have only done what was our duty.’”
 
atassina said:
thistle: you are correct. we are not required.

Luke 17:9-10
7 “Will any one of you, who has a servant plowing or keeping sheep, say to him when he has come in from the field, ‘Come at once and sit down at table’? 8 Will he not rather say to him, ‘Prepare supper for me, and gird yourself and serve me, till I eat and drink; and afterward you shall eat and drink’? 9 Does he thank the servant because he did what was commanded? 10 So you also, when you have done all that is commanded you, say, ‘We are unworthy servants; we have only done what was our duty.’”
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You are insulting Catholics because what you are telling everyone is that even though they go to Confession (for whatever mortal sin), make a sincere confession, receive absolution, and are FULLY reconciled to Christ and the Church, that is not sufficient as far as you are concerned.

You should heed the words of St John of the Cross:

“Some souls suffer from another kind of spiritual anger. They watch over others with a kind of restless fervor, perpetually annoyed by the transgressions they perceive. The impulse arises to reprove the other souls in an angry way. Sometimes they even indulge this nasty urge, elevating themselves as masters of virtue. This is all quite contrary to spiritual meekness.”
 
thistle: you are correct. I was a bit harsh in using that quote. i am sorry that i used a quote from the Bible without more prudence. and yes, i believe that we do not need to earn our forgiveness simply because we can not do so. the forgiveness we receive in confession is complete. and the quote from St. John of the Cross sums this up quiet well. i am hardly a master of virtue; rather, i am a beggar at her doorstep constantly hoping to be let in.

PS- i pray each day that the demonic reproductive health bill will fail. i fear for the Philippines and the demons that it would unleash.
 
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