VATICAN – ECUADOR - Pope in Ecuador: “Evangelization does not consist in proselytizing, but in attracting by our witness those who are far off” [AN]

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During his second Mass in Quito, Francis says, “Evangelization can be a way to unite our hopes, concerns, ideals and even utopian visions,” and “Jesus prays that we will all become part of a great family in which God is our Father and all of us are brothers and sisters.” Likewise, “Jesus calls us is not uniformity, but rather a ‘multifaceted and inviting harmony’.”

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So here’s the crux of the question" what on Earth does Pope Francis mean by “proselytizing”?

For example, are Catholics not to engage in theological debates and point out the errors of Mormon, Protestant, or other denominational doctrines?

I am truly confused; not being facetious.
 
I think the definition of proselytizing is pretty straightforward:
convert or attempt to convert (someone) from one religion, belief, or opinion to another
I don’t have any reason to believe he meant something different than the ordinary meaning of the word.
 
“Evangelization does not consist in proselytizing.” Tell that to the “prosperity gospel” preachers that are luring Catholics away in Latin America. “God wants you to be RICH!!!” I’ve seen their antics on TV. If anyone wants to evangelize, atheists and non-Christians should be the prime target.
 
“Evangelization does not consist in proselytizing.” Tell that to the “prosperity gospel” preachers that are luring Catholics away in Latin America. “God wants you to be RICH!!!” I’ve seen their antics on TV. If anyone wants to evangelize, atheists and non-Christians should be the prime target.
I wish other christian groups would listen to this message as well.
One thing Christians seem to do very well is convert other christians.
 
To proselytize is to try to get people to convert others to your religion. There is nothing wrong with trying to convert people to the Catholic religion. That is the goal of Catholic evangelization,not to lead people to believe in Jesus and then let them go off with a merely personal,existentialist faith in him. If we convince someone of Jesus,the next step is to have them join the Catholic Church,the true household of God. Jesus founded the Church for the purpose of evangelizing the world and making disciples of all nations and keeping them in communion with himself and each other as one body,so that they might be saved.
 
So here’s the crux of the question" what on Earth does Pope Francis mean by “proselytizing”?

For example, are Catholics not to engage in theological debates and point out the errors of Mormon, Protestant, or other denominational doctrines?

I am truly confused; not being facetious.
I don’t think he means to do away with theological debates. In fact, I love watching debates. I view it as a way to articulate and defend your faith.

Proselytizing refers to converting someone but using guilt, emotional blackmail or other pressuring and abrasive tactics. These people do more harm than good to their cause because eventually people start to avoid them. They are a pain to work with, especially because they are young and “on fire” for God and want to convert everyone they come across.
 
So here’s the crux of the question" what on Earth does Pope Francis mean by “proselytizing”?

For example, are Catholics not to engage in theological debates and point out the errors of Mormon, Protestant, or other denominational doctrines?

I am truly confused; not being facetious.
From a talk I attended in Rome in 2009 at the World Oblate’s Congress by Monseigneur of the Pontifical Council for Inter-Religious Dialogue, theological dialogue should be limited to those with the appropriate theological formation.

“Pointing out errors” is what I would consider proselytizing. As a Catholic it isn’t much fun when others attempt to do it to me; do unto others as the saying goes. This isn’t evangelization but is browbeating, and at least in the Internet context generally results in people arguing past each other.
 
I don’t think he means to do away with theological debates. In fact, I love watching debates. I view it as a way to articulate and defend your faith.

Proselytizing refers to converting someone but using guilt, emotional blackmail or other pressuring and abrasive tactics. These people do more harm than good to their cause because eventually people start to avoid them. They are a pain to work with especially when they are young and “on fire” for God.
That isn’t the proper definition of proselytizing. And evangelization does not exclude using guilt and emotional pressure to get people to convert. That is what saints Peter,Paul and Stephen did,in the Acts of the Apostles,when they spoke to Jewish crowds.
 
From a talk I attended in Rome in 2009 at the World Oblate’s Congress by Monseigneur of the Pontifical Council for Inter-Religious Dialogue, theological dialogue should be limited to those with the appropriate theological formation.

“Pointing out errors” is what I would consider proselytizing. As a Catholic it isn’t much fun when others attempt to do it to me; do unto others as the saying goes. This isn’t evangelization but is browbeating, and at least in the Internet context generally results in people arguing past each other.
Pointing out errors is not proselytizing or browbeating. Whatever opinions are false should be corrected. The alternative is to let them pass unchecked as if they were true,and to let people continue to be misled. That is worse than people arguing past each other.
 
That isn’t the proper definition of proselytizing.
I’d recommend you read the following article from 2013: catholic.com/blog/jimmy-akin/pope-francis-on-%E2%80%9Cproselytism%E2%80%9D

There’s a reference in that article to this document, which communicates an understanding that:
[Proselytism] has taken on a negative connotation, to mean the promotion of a religion by using means, and for motives, contrary to the spirit of the Gospel; that is, which do not safeguard the freedom and dignity of the human person. It is in this sense that the term proselytism is understood in the context of the ecumenical movement: cf. The Joint Working Group between the Catholic Church and the World Council of Churches, “The Challenge of Proselytism and the Calling to Common Witness” (1995).
 
That isn’t the proper definition of proselytizing. And evangelization does not exclude using guilt and emotional pressure to get people to convert. That is what saints Peter,Paul and Stephen did,in the Acts of the Apostles,when they spoke to Jewish crowds.
But Peter, Paul and Stephen talking to the crowds and telling them about the faith is in a different context than being cornered by a co-worker by the water cooler. In the crowd you can just leave if you do not want to hear, there is no pressure to stay if you do not agree.

Guilt and emotional pressure is never a good way to get people to hear the message and convert. What happens when the guilt and emotion is gone?
 
Pointing out errors is not proselytizing or browbeating. Whatever opinions are false should be corrected. The alternative is to let them pass unchecked as if they were true,and to let people continue to be misled. That is worse than people arguing past each other.
Recognition of Truth is based on faith. We have faith that our Church is without error. So too, do others with regards to their ecclesial communities (for Christians) or religion or non-religion. Pointing out “errors” is therefore largely useless. One needs to make a leap of faith. I made a leap of faith when I reverted back to the Church from atheism. It didn’t come from people pointing out my “errors”. God knows they had been doing that for years (wife, mother-in-law and various acquaintances).

The leap, in my case, came from hitting rock-bottom in emptiness, and while on a business trip, picking up the Bible from the night table in the hotel, and reading the Gospels. Because I had a Catholic upbringing, suddenly a light went off and I found myself back in the Church and on a journey that continues to this day, with all its ups and downs, picking one’s self up from falling flat on the floor, and going 3 steps backwards for every step forward, then bursting forth, then falling again.

Conversion is a much more complex issue than people pointing out errors, though recognizing errors or inconsistencies certainly can play a role. But that usually doesn’t come from an Internet argument. It comes from reading learned authors, questioning, discerning. Bottom line is one has to open one’s heart first to the Gospel, and then try one’s best to seek the Truth. I have yet to meet anything other than an amateur theologian on the Internet or among most laity. I know only one layman with a Master’s degree in theology. And I have yet to hear of anyone converting from an Internet argument.

When I reverted to Catholicism, I had plenty of opportunity to have my “error” of becoming Catholic pointed out to me. From my my wife, my mother-in-law, and one co-worker in particular.

To hear it coming from my wife (Evangelical Anglican) really hurt (fortunately we’ve turned that corner many years ago but it was really, really rocky for a long time).

I hang out with Benedictines. They don’t proselytize. They don’t point out errors. They welcome all who come as if Christ Himself were walking through the portal of the monastery. They dialogue by listening, not by insisting. They are experts in doctrine and have solid formation in theology. But they don’t proselytize or point out errors. When asked, they simply explain. If not asked, they don’t intrude into their guest’s “mystery” as they put it. They make him or her feel welcome, and heard. My wife turned to a monk when we hit a crisis a few years ago and now she recognizes the value of Benedictine spirituality. I pray for her conversion every single day, but I don’t argue with her about it, nor do I point out her “errors”. As I mentioned, we turned that corner.

Here’s a concrete example of how I reached out to a Protestant a few years ago. I was standing outside the monastery on a beautiful summer’s day waiting for Vespers. An Evangelical who had just visited picked me as a target to proselytize how it was “all the works of man”, “unscriptural”, etc., using the usual proof-texting methods. This is what I replied:

“I see you really love the Bible. So do I. Have you ever heard of lectio divina?”

he replied that he hadn’t.

I explained that it was a slow, meditative way of reading Scripture, where you really attempt to get to the the Truth hidden in the passage and where you not only read and meditate Scripture, but you pray it. I asked if he had Internet and he said he did, so I suggested to him that he google “lectio divina”, and there would be plenty of (mostly Catholic) sites explaining it.

He ended up being really enthusiastic about my suggestion and promised me he would look it up.

Hopefully I planted a seed, but maybe I didn’t. What I do know, is that I didn’t turn him off by butting heads with him. Because of I screw up at evangelizing by relying on proselytizing, and drive someone away from the Church, it is I that will have to answer to God on judgement day for it, not the one I drove away.
 
“Pointing out errors” is what I would consider proselytizing. As a Catholic it isn’t much fun when others attempt to do it to me; do unto others as the saying goes. This isn’t evangelization but is browbeating, and at least in the Internet context generally results in people arguing past each other.
I wouldn’t think pointing out errors is proselytizing, but rather shoddy apologetics that uses insults as a way to try to convince others how wrong they are (which often may include “pointing out errors”, an “in your face” kind of attitude). I mean, theologians often point out errors in other theologians, but generally in a professional and respectful manner. But that’s what you’re saying so I’m just preaching to the choir. 🤷🤷

If no one had made me think about the discrepancies between my beliefs as a Protestant and the Bible–and so the Church–I wouldn’t be a Catholic today. But I wouldn’t have listened if the truth I heard sounded like a “clanging cymbal”, without charity and kindness. :twocents:
 
I’d recommend you read the following article from 2013: catholic.com/blog/jimmy-akin/pope-francis-on-%E2%80%9Cproselytism%E2%80%9D

There’s a reference in that article to this document, which communicates an understanding that:

< [Proselytism] has taken on a negative connotation, to mean the promotion of a religion by using means, and for motives, contrary to the spirit of the Gospel; that is, which do not safeguard the freedom and dignity of the human person. It is in this sense that the term proselytism is understood in the context of the ecumenical movement: cf. The Joint Working Group between the Catholic Church and the World Council of Churches, “The Challenge of Proselytism and the Calling to Common Witness” (1995). >
The word proselytism has taken on a negative connotation because society has become agnostic,relativistic,secularized and individualistic,and many people regard religion as a private matter that should be kept to one’s self and among fellow believers. They take offense at anyone who tries to persuade them,not because they have strong convictions of their own and think the other person’s religion is false,but because they just can’t handle being bothered. It feels like an imposition. Its a breach of decorum.

But not everyone takes offense at proselytism. Some people listen with interest. Some people debate. Some people are converted. People are attracted to religious zeal,not just gentle invitations to faith. Those who completely disapprove of proselytism are mainly complacent,tepid,touchy,middle-class people who are disturbed by intensity and don’t like arguments over religion and are too concerned about feelings and appearances.
 
But not everyone takes offense at proselytism. Some people listen with interest. Some people debate.
Yes this is true. But the key is “listening with interest” some people can not pick up when the audience has no interest.
Those who completely disapprove of proselytism are mainly complacent,tepid,touchy,middle-class people who are disturbed by intensity and don’t like arguments over religion and are too concerned about feelings and appearances.
I guess I am one of those people who do not like arguments over religion. I am all for people sharing their faith, in fact it is a tenet of christianity. What I am against is the constant badgering which some people do. It is all good and well until you are on the receiving end of the earnest do-gooder trying to save your soul from hell because you are going to the wrong church, worshipping on the wrong day or eating the wrong type of food. What is wrong with moving on to the other person if your target clearly has zero interest in your message.
 
Father Z has a good post on this:wdtprs.com/blog/2015/07/ask-father-do-we-need-more-direct-and-forceful-evangelization-identifying-the-enemy/
Errors must be addressed forthrightly, as Pope Francis has done. The proselytization he is condemns is the approach used by “pentecostal” communities which is, at its core, deceitful.
We should not pretend to be anything other than what we are: Catholics, Catholics who are Roman, Ukrainian, Maronite, etc… but Catholics, nothing less.
We should live our faith with gusto, fidelity, and striving for holiness.
¡Hagan lío!
**If our numbers are falling off, it’s not because we’ve not tried some new, aggressive program or approach. It’s because we’ve failed in holiness and we have failed in our God-given vocations. **We have failed in our sacred liturgical worship as well. Christ is the Perfect Communicator and liturgy is the most visible and accessible means by which He communicates with us.
My old pastor, Msgr. Schuler was wont to quip, “Nemo dat quod non got”, purposely macaronic, for “You can’t give what you aint’ got.” We have to know clearly what we believe (fides quae creditur) and have a solid, holy relationship with the content of our Faith (fides quae creditur – a Person!) and we must be able to communicate it clearly and with charity (1 Peter 3:15).
If we don’t know who we are, then we can’t share who we are. If we can’t share who we are, why should anyone bother to listen to us?
 
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