Vatican all but wipes out conservative order of nuns for ‘too much prayer’ |

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To be fair, I would be interested in what else has gone on, or led up to this. I don’t mean LSN is wrong, just want to get both sides.
 
commenter said:
To be fair, I would be interested in what else has gone on, or led up to this. I don’t mean LSN is wrong, just want to get both sides.
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Hasn’t this been discussed on CAF before? And it turned out there was more to it?
 
angel12 said:
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commenter:
To be fair, I would be interested in what else has gone on, or led up to this. I don’t mean LSN is wrong, just want to get both sides.
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Hasn’t this been discussed on CAF before? And it turned out there was more to it?
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Yes I can’t remember if it was this site or another that discussed it last year. Apparently the French convent of the Order was operating more like a cult under the leadership of a particular Mother Superior. There were serious reservations abou the kind of cultish loyalty required by the nuns that ran contra to Catholic faith in Christ and the Church.
 
Yes I believe there is a backstory to this and I believe it revolved around ownership or management of an elder care facility.

LifeSiteNews is not a balanced source for these sorts of stories.

For those who can read French:


In short there were conflicts in the management of elder care facilities, where the nuns were accused of excessive rigidity and authoritarianism.
Une union, en 2014, entre les trois institutions et une quatrième Ehpad, gérée par une autre congrégation, aurait été marquée par des conflits interpersonnels
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(translation: a merger, in 2014, between the three institutes as well as a fourth managed by another congregation, was apparently marked by interpersonal conflicts).

The LifeSiteNews story is also very inaccurate. According to La Croix, they were not “booted out” but were asked to be relieved of their vows:
La quasi-totalité des membres de la congrégation d’orientation traditionaliste refusent de se “moderniser” et ont demandé à Rome d’être relevées de leurs vœux.
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(Translation: the near totality of the members of the traditionalist-leaning Congregation refuse to “modernise” and have asked Rome to be relieved of their vows).

As usual there’s more to this than meets the eye, and as usual, LifeSiteNews is being highly inaccurate in their reporting in order to inflame passions to stoke their agenda.
 
Pope Francis in an earlier interview also said that there were issues involving sex abuse and the priest founder of that community.
 
TrumpTrain said:
The details are neither here nor there.
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Facts are important, whether you agree with them or not. Some of us prefer the truth, no matter where it falls. You are not required to agree that the truth of this case matters.
 
TrumpTrain said:
Liberalism is the Smoke of Satan that has entered the Church, as prophesied by Pope Paul VI. The details are neither here nor there. There are Catholic parishes that literally teach anti-Catholic things. There are too many Catholics that vote for the party of abortion, homosexuality and socialism. Too many Catholics are CINO’s (Catholic In Name Only) from the average Joe all the way up to this pope.
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angel12 said:
Facts are important
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I never said they weren’t. I am saying that the overriding truth of what happened makes the details irrelevant. If someone rapes a woman, and don’t give a darn about any details of the poor rapists bad childhood or anything else.

Likewise, some liberal “nun” booting out these great traditional nuns because they won’t become more liberal is the story, and the details will not change the fact that Liberalism is an evil destroying the Church.
 
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TrumpTrain said:
I never said they weren’t. I am saying that the overriding truth of what happened makes the details irrelevant.
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And the overriding truth of what happened – the reasons behind the actions against the order – seem to be exactly what you’re complaining about.
 
Trump train.

You say the details “are neither here nor there”?

That doesn’t seem like the best way to approach a news story.
 
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Indeed. I highly doubt that the Church is “persecuting” traditionalists. I give as evidence the FSSP, ICK, and several traditionalist (i.e. EF Mass and older form of the Monastic Breviary) Benedictine monasteries, including I think 4 in our Congregation (Fontgombault, Triors, Randol, and Clear Creek). They are all allowed to thrive,

There was clearly an unhealthy dynamic in this community that cared for the elderly. Perhaps the elderly suffered because of their issues.
 
I think some individual bishops, more so in the 70s and 80s than now, have genuinely been unkind to “traditionalists”… and it’s based on those experiences that they see persecution in every corner. But certainly, as you say, orders are clearly not suppressed simply for being traditional.
 
TrumpTrain said:
Too many Catholics are CINO’s (Catholic In Name Only) from the average Joe all the way up to this pope.
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The Pope is known for his lifelong devotion to the Church and holiness. He is not a CINO in the least. As a lifelong Catholic myself who has great faith in the promise of Christ about His Church, I feel a true rage that attitudes like yours trying to destroy young Catholics faith in the authority of the Holy Father to lead, are out there. That is the smoke of Satan if I were asked. “But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea”. I consider my mission today is to point out the evil of this behaviour and hope attitudes like yours can be successfully overcome.
 
Still, the current Pope offends many by his vague remarks and, to me, by his reluctance to just come right out and expel homosexual priests and bishops, and those bishops who were complicit in hiding abusive priests behind non-disclosure agreements. P, Francis grandstands by contributing 1/2 million dollars to aid the migrants in Mexico but says nothing about the Billions spent in the US on settlements for sexual abuse by clergy, etc. I think recent popes have damaged their own credibility by not being more active about removing predatory priests. Young people are aware of this.

I agree with many more prominent Catholics that we are in a very grave crisis in the Church.

Since Vatican II there has been a steady decline in Mass attendance and, when it comes to the ‘new’ evangelization, the laity are told it’s OUR responsibility to evangelize and to fix the problems in the Church – yet we have no power to do those things.
 
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otrrl said:
Still, the current Pope offends many by his vague remarks and, to me, by his reluctance to just come right out and expel homosexual priests and bishops, and those bishops who were complicit in hiding abusive priests behind non-disclosure agreements. P, Francis grandstands by contributing 1/2 million dollars to aid the migrants in Mexico but says nothing about the Billions spent in the US on settlements for sexual abuse by clergy, etc. I think recent popes have damaged their own credibility by not being more active about removing predatory priests. Young people are aware of this.

I agree with many more prominent Catholics that we are in a very grave crisis in the Church.

Since Vatican II there has been a steady decline in Mass attendance and, when it comes to the ‘new’ evangelization, the laity are told it’s OUR responsibility to evangelize and to fix the problems in the Church – yet we have no power to do those things.
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The decline in Mass attendance was happening before Vatican II. The Church was in need of renewal at that time but always with the great virtue of hope which is a gift of the Holy Spirit. One of Pope Francis very first homilies is brilliant for the right demeanour of a Catholic. He said:

“Hope is a gift from Jesus; hope is Jesus himself and bears his name, the Pope said. “But its not the kind of hope that you find in a person who usually looks at a half full glass thats simply optimism and optimism is a human attitude that depends on many things.”

“But hope is a different thing, it is not optimism. Hope is a gift, a gift of the Holy Spirit and for this Paul says: “It never deludes.” Hope never deludes, why? Because it is a gift that is given to us by the Holy Spirit. But Paul tells us that hope has a name. Hope is Jesus. We cannot say, “I have hope in my live, I have hope in God,’ No. If you do not say: ‘I have hope in Jesus, in Jesus Christ, the Living Being, who comes now in the Eucharist, who is present in His Word’, that is not hope. Its good humor, optimism, [but not hope.]”

“Jesus, the hope, rebuilds everything. It ‘a constant miracle. Not only did He do miracles of healing, so many things: those were only signs, signals of what he is doing now, in the Church. The miracle of rebuilding everything that He does in my life, in your life, in our lives. To rebuild. And this that he rebuilds is the very reason for our hope. And ‘Christ, who rebuilds all things the most wonderful things of Creation, is the reason for our hope. And this hope does not disappoint us, because He is faithful. He cannot deny himself. This is the virtue of hope.”

Our Popes have all been men of ‘hope’ in the power of the Holy Spirit to rebuild. The antithesis of hope comes in the form of this scandalous and ridiculous doomsaying. There is nothing new under the sun. As Pope St John XXIII said in his opening address at Vatican II…
 
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