Vatican astronomer likens creationism to superstition

[edwest2]

You live in a fantasy land dominated by science and a love of science, which is just idolatry of the mind of man. It would not be ethical to create such a being even if it became possible.

God bless,
Ed

 

[drpmjhess]

And why would one even want to go there, except to play God?

Good question – I don’t know Craig Venter myself, or the Korean cloners. But if the do create artificial life, we should have answers for these questions ready.

 

[ricmat]

I’m not a theologian, but there is something that concerns me greatly (as a technologist concerned about technology).

As technology progresses, we gain enormous opportunities for good, and for evil. There are evils that could not even have been dreamed of 50 years ago which are at our doorsteps and which we will choose to invite in, or not.

It seems that everything that was “good” in Genesis 1-2 is now under attack. A small sample:

1. God made everything, including us. [No he didn’t, it all just happened.]
2. God made us special, in his image and likeness, which imparts to all a sacred dignity. [Not so, according to progressives. Humans, whether still in the womb, or imperfect in some way, or a burden on society, are actual disposable entities, given the will or whims of the State or progressives.]
3. God made us male and female. [Actually, that’s just an accident of evolution…besides, we can change our sex, and soon men will be able to have babies.]
4. God told the male and female to go forth and multiply. [Actually, that isn’t necessary. We can do all that with test tubes. Male/female is obsolete. Besides, there are too many people anyhow, that’s why the right to kill your baby is so important.]
5. God made us more than the animals. [Nope, according to progressives, animals and the environment are more important than people. Not only do we need to take rights away from people, but we need to give those original rights to animals instead.]
6. God made us to be less than God himself. [Nope. What we really need, according to progressives, is transhumanism. It’s not enough to fix broken bones or cure illnesses, what we really need is a better human. One that can live forever. One fashioned in our image, to our likeness and our desires. One that can be god. Or one that I can have fun playing God with.]
7. God made man and woman as suitable partners for each other. [Except, I guess when men and women have an attraction to the same sex, that to follow this impulse is more important than what God wants. So say the progressives.]

God gave man dominion over the Earth, to subdue it. God did not give us dominion over human life - its beginning, its end, or its image and likeness. He reserved that for himself.

How long will God stand by and let us play God?

 

[edwest2]

An excellent and correct analysis. Man thinks because a date has changed on the calendar that he lives in “modern” times. It’s the 21st Century! Yeah, so what? Did knowledge or wisdom pour into anyone’s head the moment the 20th Century turned into the 21st?

There is nothing wrong about being optimistic about the future but actual progress does not happen by itself. People choose to do or not to do certain things. By choosing to create nuclear weapons, man can wipe himself out. By choosing to not help the poor, these people will continue to suffer.

The Catholic Church has been long aware that man’s ethical/spiritual growth has not matched his technological developments. But what people should look at is, are these things really necessary?

I had an occasion to meet a man who was 100 years old. I asked him to tell me what had changed between the present and when he was a teenager. His reply? Things are about the same, they just happen a lot faster.

Do we need exercise or a gas powered lawnmower or a gas powered leaf blower? How about a sensible car as opposed to a gas guzzling SUV? More than one TV? Cable? Cell phone in the car?

The last time there was a major power outage in my area, even the water system shut down for a while. No TV or computer or internet. One of the most intelligent people I know grew up on a farm.

After food, clothing, transportion and shelter, ask yourself, what do you really need? And what of the Word of God and God Himself? Last Christmas, Pope Benedict said that progress will come when modern men and modern women make time and place for God. This is a real relationship. And we are the temporary stewards of His creation as well as the things he has given us.

The Bible tells us that in the last days, knowledge will increase. But Jesus Christ tells us to not be troubled by the things going on around us. As Paul told Timothy: “Be sober, be vigilant, for your adversary, the devil, goes about like a roaring lion seeking whom he might devour.” And as the serpent told Eve, “Ye shall be as gods…” And so man, thinking himself “free,” says to the world, “We will become greater than any God we can imagine.” That is, until the trump sounds and the King of Kings literally appears in the clouds.

Oh, how they love science/the things man has done. How great is the work of our randomly mutated, naturally selected hands!

The road to destruction is wide.

God bless,
Ed

 

[Leeta]

I never see any Catholics argue for ex nihilo creation. It seems more likely to me than the impersonal evolution which is seems to be subscribed to by so many. God is God and not limited by the matter he created.

A Catholic is free to believe in some kind of role of a gradual development in species over an unspecified time. But a Catholic is also free to believe in ex nihilo creation. It also fits the Genesis account and still allows for some allegorical interpretation of it.

I am tired of Catholic apologetics for evolution. It is time to hear the other equally valid view.

 

[ricmat]

I never see any Catholics argue for ex nihilo creation. It seems more likely to me than the impersonal evolution which is seems to be subscribed to by so many. God is God and not limited by the matter he created.

A Catholic is free to believe in some kind of role of a gradual development in species over an unspecified time. But a Catholic is also free to believe in ex nihilo creation. It also fits the Genesis account and still allows for some allegorical interpretation of it.

I am tired of Catholic apologetics for evolution. It is time to hear the other equally valid view.

What all Catholics here believe (as far as I know) is that God created the universe from absolutely nothing - ex nihilo. This is in contrast to pagan gods who allegedly shaped the universe from previously existing matter. I think this is actually a requirement for Catholics to believe, and is not optional.

It is what happened next that we start to get into these debates. Did God then take 6 days to form the earth, life, etc, or did it take 14 billion years? Did God make the laws of the universe, and then step away from it so it could unfold by itself, or does God continue to interact with his creation - like a composer playing his piano?

If you are arguing for “creation over a 6 day period, in which all life was created at the same time, as it exists now”, then the term that’s frequently used here is YEC, for Young Earth Creationism.

There are some YEC Catholics here who are participating in the discussions, and of course, you are welcome to join as well! Or if you are afraid of the barbaric attitude of some of the posters, you can just sit back and watch…

 

[Stephen_LB]

How does it always lead to death?

Father Thomas Euteneuer, President of Human Life International puts it this way:“We all know that abortion does not start with the killing of children. It starts with the killing of souls through contraception, which changes the core values of a person—and analogously a culture—to accept the idea of killing babies because they are invonvenienet, unwanted, handicapped, or just not the right “choice.” It is that massive overhaul of values that constitutes the true sexual revolution, and to this day, Humanea Vitae remains the one monumenetal response to it from the highest authority of our Church.”

Father Paul Marx, former President of Human Life International, was a trained sociologist. He studied cultures all over the world, and he concluded that everytime the numbers for artificial contraception increases, the number of abortions increases. Popular wisdom suggests that “responsible” sex, using various means of birth control, will reduce abortions, but it never works out that way. Once you cheapen life at any stage of development, it carries over into every stage of life, from birth, to old age, to death. That is what John Paul II meant he characterized our society as the “culture of death.”

 

[Stephen_LB]

Good question – I don’t know Craig Venter myself, or the Korean cloners. But if the do create artificial life, we should have answers for these questions ready.

I have a novel idea. How about not waiting until they do it? How about telling them right now that it violates the natural moral law? Since they won’t know what that means, that gives you an opportunity to tell them.

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

I do not know if I am reading all the posts correctly or not. I want to throw in a few corrections that I think might help. For those who do not know Latin the term “ex nihilo” means “out of nothing.”. When applied to creation, it means that God created all that is out of nothing. With just a single thought. As Catholics, this is what be believe of creation. Whether it took seven days as some say, which is an incorrect translation of the Hebrew word “yom”. That word “Yom” can mean a day as we know it, or it can also mean an indefinite period of time. Before I am asked where I learned Hebrew, let me say I do not know Hebrew, but this is what I was taught by Catholic Scripture scholars, who did know Hebrew. The understanding of “Yom” as an indefinite period of time makes more sense with our “scientific understanding of Creation” (and I use this term loosely) meaning that our world evolved in its development. This understanding does not in any way negate the teaching of “ex nihilo”. Because all matter was created by God, by his infinite power and majesty. Call it the “Big Bang” or whatever you want to call it. God created everything from just a thought. Was everything in its present form? My personal thought is obviously not. I think development came over a passage of 7 “Yoms” i.e., 7 undetermined periods of time. I personally do not believe in 7 twenty four hour “yams” as many presently argue about. I hope this explanation will help us in further discussion of these issues.
Deacon Ed B

 

[drpmjhess]

1. God made us male and female. [Actually, that’s just an accident of evolution…besides, we can change our sex, and soon men will be able to have babies.]

Well, ricmat, God made many species male and female, but not all; in some species there are up to twelve sexes, and in some animal species individuals change form male to female, or vice versa, depending on the circumstances. Sexuality is a little more fluid than you portray it to be.

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

To ricmat. I would hardly call any of God’s creation, an accident. Please correct me i I am wrong, but by your statement, I sense that you have many if not total reservations about the Church and its teaching. If you tell me you are Catholic, please tell me where you are coming from, as I surely don’t know. Even Sacred Scripture which we believe to be the revealed word of God says that God created man and woman. The “how” is allegory. The fact is fact. Please tell us where you are coming from.
Deacon Ed B

 

[ricmat]

Well, ricmat, God made many species male and female, but not all; in some species there are up to twelve sexes, and in some animal species individuals change form male to female, or vice versa, depending on the circumstances. Sexuality is a little more fluid than you portray it to be.

The purpose of my post was to show how the basic teachings of Genesis 1 and 2 are being perverted.

Genesis 1 and 2 are about God and Man. Not species with 12 sexes.

 

[ricmat]

To ricmat. I would hardly call any of God’s creation, an accident. Please correct me i I am wrong, but by your statement, I sense that you have many if not total reservations about the Church and its teaching. If you tell me you are Catholic, please tell me where you are coming from, as I surely don’t know. Even Sacred Scripture which we believe to be the revealed word of God says that God created man and woman. The “how” is allegory. The fact is fact. Please tell us where you are coming from.
Deacon Ed B

Deacon, you are totally misreading my post above. The portion between and ] is the “progressive” answer to the teachings of Catholicism. I subscribe to the portions before the brackets, not the part between the brackets.

PS - my explanation of ex nihilo was I believe identical to yours in the post following the one with the brackets.

If that post is not what you are referring to, let me know which one you are commenting on.

 

[ricmat]

Well, ricmat, God made many species male and female, but not all; in some species there are up to twelve sexes, and in some animal species individuals change form male to female, or vice versa, depending on the circumstances. Sexuality is a little more fluid than you portray it to be.

If you haven’t read Theology of the Body, you should. I’m not sure how you can be so dismissive of human sexuality as to lump it in with sex of other animal species.

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

I accept your explanation, please accept my apology…
Deacon Ed B

 

[drpmjhess]

If you haven’t read Theology of the Body, you should. I’m not sure how you can be so dismissive of human sexuality as to lump it in with sex of other animal species.

I’m not dismissive at all. I was simply countering your global claim that animal sexuality is a stark binary of male and female, which it clearly is not.

 

[ricmat]

I’m not dismissive at all. I was simply countering your global claim that animal sexuality is a stark binary of male and female, which it clearly is not.

I’m not sure where you think I said this. Could you point me in the right direction? Perhaps I worded something in a not very clear fashion - it’s happened before

 

[drpmjhess]

If what this research lab is doing as you say, posed to create artificial life, their definition itself bespeaks a lack of reality. Why else would it be called artificial. .Deacon Ed B

Precisely – it’s artificial life. But that doesn’t mean Catholics shouldn’t respond when it happens, if we can’t stop it before it happens. It would be a tragedy if some lab in Korea or elsewhere created es artificial “life” and then Catholics refused to have anything to do with that life. That would be analogous to refusing to baptize a baby because it had been conceived artificially in a test tube.

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

I agree with with you say, that we should do all we can to stop this blasphemy, but how would you propose that we stop it in closed societies like North Korea, or China or elsewhere. At present, prayer is the only weapon I see that we have. I do admit that it is a powerful weapon if used properly.
Deacon Ed B

 

[ricmat]

I accept your explanation, please accept my apology…
Deacon Ed B

No problem.

Things are usually clear to the people who write them. Making it clear to people that read them is much harder, and I often make a mess of doing that.