Vatican backs plan to name Rome Square after Martin Luther [CH-UK]

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Martin Luther was excommunicated - but now the Vatican has spoken positively about the plan to name a central square after him

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Catholic_Herald said:
Martin Luther was excommunicated - but now the Vatican has spoken positively about the plan to name a central square after him

More…
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This story is ridiculous. The Pope and the Vatican cannot control what the City of Rome, ITALY does.

The City agrees to do this… Is the Vatican supposed to say “NO!!! The City of Rome must not honor a heretic!!”?

No. That would have backfired. Perhaps they would have responded in a more neutral way, but I’m sure the Vatican had noting to do with the actual plans.
 
This article doesn’t make any sense, because the place in question, Oppian Hill, is a part of the city of Rome and has nothing to do with the Vatican. Therefore, I do not think that the Vatican had any say in the matter, let alone would it.

May God bless you all abundantly and forever! 🙂
 
When I began the RCIA process last year, I expected Catholics to be hostile to Martin Luther. I imagine some are. But in my own Parish, I was surprised.

Our RCIA leader said in one class that if Martin Luther had only been patient, and had pointed out his grievances with the Church without leaving and thus creating the protestant movement, that he would likely have been a saint because it kicked off the reformation within the Church (commonly called the counter-reformation) which was desperately needed. Whatever else you think of Luther, he did do a lot of good for the Church in that regard.

I expressed to one lady, the wife of one of our permanent deacons, that I had felt cheated when I found out that Martin Luther had taken it upon himself to strip 7 books out of the Bible. I was truly angry about that, because it seemed so presumptuous and because I feel he has impoverished protestants by those 7 books. And she came back with, “Well- in charity, he was sincere. Sincerely wrong, but sincere.”
 
Why does Rome want to name a square after Martin Luther to begin with? As far as I know, there’s no significant Lutheran population in Italy. Plus, Luther was a bigot who hated Catholics, Anabaptists, and especially Jews.
 
ctb95 said:
Why does Rome want to name a square after Martin Luther to begin with? As far as I know, there’s no significant Lutheran population in Italy. Plus, Luther was a bigot who hated Catholics, Anabaptists, and especially Jews.
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There are plenty of people.in Rome who go about their day wholly unconcerned about offending Catholics.
 
Colorad007 said:
There are plenty of people.in Rome who go about their day wholly unconcerned about offending Catholics.
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That’s not my point. I’m just curious why, out of all the people who could be chosen, would Rome pick Martin Luther to be the square’s namesake?
 
The article is pretty terrible, as has been mentioned. The Vatican has no jurisdiction over the matter. Also, it was just some guy in the Vatican press office who said it was cool with Catholics. Honestly, I don’t see how someone who takes the Catholic faith seriously can think it’s a good idea to honor Martin Luther, especially in Rome–a tolerable idea maybe, but not a praiseworthy one or one to participate in.
ctb95 said:
Why does Rome want to name a square after Martin Luther to begin with? As far as I know, there’s no significant Lutheran population in Italy. Plus, Luther was a bigot who hated Catholics, Anabaptists, and especially Jews.
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The article says it is Seventh Day Adventists who have pushed for it–which makes it especially strange given their beliefs. 🤷
 
AKDee said:
I expressed to one lady, the wife of one of our permanent deacons, that I had felt cheated when I found out that Martin Luther had taken it upon himself to strip 7 books out of the Bible. I was truly angry about that, because it seemed so presumptuous and because I feel he has impoverished protestants by those 7 books. And she came back with, “Well- in charity, he was sincere. Sincerely wrong, but sincere.”
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Well, technically, Luther didn’t remove them out of the Bible. (For the English-language Bibles, you have publishers and the British and Foreign Bible Society to blame for that. To sum, the deuteros disappeared mainly because publishers found it cheaper to mass-produce thinner Bibles. True story.) He took them out of the Old Testament, he didn’t consider them inspired, but he did note that they are nützlich und gut zu lesen sind “still useful and profitable to read.”

And it’s not like his segregation of the deuteros/‘Apocrypha’ from the OT proper were simply done on a whim or anything. (Contrary to certain popular perceptions (mostly from people who hate Luther ;)), Luther didn’t go like: “I’m gonna take these books out of the OT because I feel like it.”) Luther had simply acted out what some people in his time (and before him) had already been expressing. And he got all the flak out of it as a result.
 
Genesis315 said:
The article says it is Seventh Day Adventists who have pushed for it–which makes it especially strange given their beliefs. 🤷
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Well, Luther has really become that guy people simply pay lip service to. The way I see it, many Protestants honor him for being one of the leading figures of the Reformation and all that, but I think more than half of those people don’t even know or care about his actual beliefs and opinions. In fact, they’d even kinda go against what he actually believed. (cf. Luther on Mary) 🤷
 
AKDee said:
When I began the RCIA process last year, I expected Catholics to be hostile to Martin Luther. I imagine some are. But in my own Parish, I was surprised.

Our RCIA leader said in one class that if Martin Luther had only been patient, and had pointed out his grievances with the Church without leaving and thus creating the protestant movement, that he would likely have been a saint because it kicked off the reformation within the Church (commonly called the counter-reformation) which was desperately needed. Whatever else you think of Luther, he did do a lot of good for the Church in that regard.
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Wrong. He was a nasty, angry man. Far from saint material.

The Jews and their Lies:
ccjr.us/dialogika-resources/primary-texts-from-the-history-of-the-relationship/273-luther-1543

Against the murdering, thieving hordes of peasants:
historyguide.org/earlymod/peasants1525.html
 
SWolf said:
Wrong. He was a nasty, angry man. Far from saint material.
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I think that’s the point, though. If he had gone about seeking reform the right way, he might be a saint like all the other reforming saints. Instead he went about it the wrong way, filled with anger, bitterness, pride, and heresy and thus he is not saint material.
 
SWolf said:
Wrong. He was a nasty, angry man. Far from saint material.
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Well, to be fair, some saints hardly looked like they were ‘saint material’. I mean, I respect St. Jerome for his scholarship and the Latin Vulgate and all that, but I don’t think I’m gonna ever get chummy with the man if I did know him. The impression I got from him is that he has quite a quick temper. And some ego to match. 😛

I guess Luther’s weakness (and cause of downfall) was too proud.
 
AKDee said:
When I began the RCIA process last year, I expected Catholics to be hostile to Martin Luther. I imagine some are. But in my own Parish, I was surprised.

Our RCIA leader said in one class that if Martin Luther had only been patient, and had pointed out his grievances with the Church without leaving and thus creating the protestant movement, that he would likely have been a saint because it kicked off the reformation within the Church (commonly called the counter-reformation) which was desperately needed. Whatever else you think of Luther, he did do a lot of good for the Church in that regard.

I expressed to one lady, the wife of one of our permanent deacons, that I had felt cheated when I found out that Martin Luther had taken it upon himself to strip 7 books out of the Bible. I was truly angry about that, because it seemed so presumptuous and because I feel he has impoverished protestants by those 7 books. And she came back with, “Well- in charity, he was sincere. Sincerely wrong, but sincere.”
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what your RCIA leader said is a popular myth taught in public high schools when they study the Reformation (or at least it was taught back in the early 1990s when I was in high school).

The Vatican was already cleaning some stuff up before Luther, but Germany (where Luther lived) still had some issues with priests, bishops, etc who were not obeying Rome; plus Germany had a handful of Bishop-Princes, etc.

I recommend listing to the following Catholic Answers Live episodes:

catholic.com/radio/shows/the-real-story-of-the-reformation-30515
catholic.com/radio/shows/the-real-story-of-the-reformation-28622

God Bless
 
I couldn’t find the original story, though did a quick search at the Catholic Herald site.

Here’s another from HuffPo:
Vatican Supports Naming Square After Excommunicated Church Reformer (Martin Luther)
“It’s a decision taken by Rome city hall which is favorable to Catholics in that it’s in line with the path of dialogue started with the ecumenical council,” said the Rev. Ciro Benedettini, deputy director of the Vatican press office, referring to a gathering of churchmen to rule on faith matters.
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Dialogue! Dialogue! I sure hope Rev. Benedettini said way more than this; would’ve been nice if there were something to the effect of: “While the Vatican has no jurisdiction over what the Roman city council decides, we wish to remind our separated brothers and sisters that M Luther was given every opportunity to recant his position, but in the end, refused. We pray for all his followers, that they would return to full communion with the Holy Catholic Church”; and perhaps he did, but HuffPo, being a thoroughly liberal entity, chose not to include it.

Maybe there is some buzz somewhere in some Roman news sites about this.

Maybe the naming will at least make a few ppl wonder about Luther & the 7th Day Adventists and find the Truth of Catholicism. I certainly hope so.

I think the majority of Romans are a “live and let live” society.

Mimi
 
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