Vatican backs teaching Islam in public schools?

[pro_universal]

I can read all you want me to read but that is not going to change the fact of what I see and what history teaches. It isn’t hard to type a few lines that can dispel my point of view right?

Okay, if you can read whole books and that won’t change your view, don’t you think it’s a bit silly to ask freedomm for some lines of his own thoughts (not like he hasn’t posted them already)?

If a book on Islam won’t change your views, what exactly do you want that would?

I bet it hurts many muslims that the height of Islamic power was time spent on recapturing land LIBERATED by the crusaders. Instead of marching on Paris they were busy trying to recapture Jerusalem.

Is it to endlessly complain about a Jewish state existing in the Middle East. I hate to say it but if Muslims can conquer, so can anyone else. The British defeated the Ottomons, the British did what they pleased with the lands they captured, and now you have Isreal, live with it.

If you call what happened when the Crusaders took Jerusalem in 1099 “Liberation”, then please, if I’m ever in trouble, DO NOT liberate me!

The British did not create Israel, and the UN mandate that became Israel is illegaly beyond its originally agreed upon borders.

 

[Mike_D30]

pro_universal:

If you call what happened when the Crusaders took Jerusalem in 1099 “Liberation”, then please, if I’m ever in trouble, DO NOT liberate me!

The British did not create Israel, and the UN mandate that became Israel is illegaly beyond its originally agreed upon borders.

The Crusades were a response to Muslim aggression. How many times did Islam knock on Europes door, ot be thrwarted by Chirstian armies? The rode as far as Spain and Austria. So while there were excesses, and terrible deads done by MEN during the crusades, let’s not all pretend they weren’t a response to Muslim aggression, they were.

 

[Mike_D30]

freedomm:

LOL.
How do you know Hitler was more a pagan? Did he tell you personally?

No but by his actions, his declared hatred for the Pope, and renunciation of everything Christian, his obsession with Aryan myths from Eastern pagan mythology, and his fascination with the occult, as thinking humans we can make an easily provable assumption.

freedomm:

The “articles” that you claimed have read can be written by anyone and then falsely attribute them to the Muslims.

It is amazing that Muslims in general are not aware of such articles written by their own Muslim brothers but you somehow know these very well more than what Islam stands for and what actually Muslims believe religiously.

The leader of one of the largest Muslim nations on Earth, denied the holocaust even happened. Please…

freedomm:

By “Arab world”, you probably meant, Arab Christians’ World. Because there are millions of Christians in the Arab world.

No he means the Arab Muslim world, Muslims hate the Jews and have vowed to push them all into the sea. The main reason Israel exists today, and Muslims haven’t killed every Jew in Israel, is because of the Christian lobby in America.

 

[cestusdei]

If you call what happened in Constantinople in 1453 liberation then don’t ever liberate me like that.

I don’t even need to see articles about Muslim admiration for Hitler. I watched them on TV with signs SAYING Hitler was right. They say it themselves.

Hitler hated Jews and Christians. Hey, he could have been a Muslim. They feel the same way.

 

[Coram_Deo]

i would like to say this about that.

1Pe 2:8 And a stone of STUMBLING and a rock of offense,eventothem which stumble at the word, being disobedient.

Mat 10:34 think not that i came to send peace on earth but i came with a sword

 

[pro_universal]

Mike_D30:

The Crusades were a response to Muslim aggression. How many times did Islam knock on Europes door, ot be thrwarted by Chirstian armies? The rode as far as Spain and Austria. So while there were excesses, and terrible deads done by MEN during the crusades, let’s not all pretend they weren’t a response to Muslim aggression, they were.

Sure, they were an attack to try and aid the Byzantines. They came about 400 years after the Muslims took most of that land. I can agree to that though.

Just like suicide bombing is response to Israeli aggression, right? Sure, the suicide bombings are excessive and an improper means, but they’re definitely a response to Israel grabbing land by force from Arabs.

See how minimizing “excesses” can work both ways?

 

[cestusdei]

I would be happy to teach all about Islam in school. Let me do the teaching and design the curriculum. See? Problem solved.

 

[inJESUS]

cestusdei:

I would be happy to teach all about Islam in school. Let me do the teaching and design the curriculum. See? Problem solved.

oh no…an infidel Christian politheistic wouldnt be able to teach monotheism or see the sublime morality of mohammad.

 

[onesimplemind]

pro_universal:

Just like suicide bombing is response to Israeli aggression, right? Sure, the suicide bombings are excessive and an improper means, but they’re definitely a response to Israel grabbing land by force from Arabs.

Actually suicide bombing is not a response to Isreali “land grabbing”, its a response to the existence of Isreal itself.

Isreal “land grabbing” is a defensive measure, Isreal was attacked since day one and those attacks evolved from conventional armies to terrorism.

Let’s not kid ourselves, muslims want an all Islam middle east, then an all Islam Europe, then an all Islam world. The fighting in Isreal is just a microcosm of the large Islamic campaign to dominate the world.

 

[inJESUS]

onesimplemind:

Actually suicide bombing is not a response to Isreali “land grabbing”, its a response to the existence of Isreal itself.

Isreal “land grabbing” is a defensive measure, Isreal was attacked since day one and those attacks evolved from conventional armies to terrorism.

Let’s not kid ourselves, muslims want an all Islam middle east, then an all Islam Europe, then an all Islam world. The fighting in Isreal is just a microcosm of the large Islamic campaign to dominate the world.

correct and it stems as well from the hatred the quran/hadith has for jews. The hadith even says that the judgment day wont come until muslims kill all jews

 

[murtad]

freedomm:

You mean you want present day secular West to abondone her secularism and embrace once again the Christian Fundamentalism thus go back in her Dark Ages, again?

The so-called “Dark Ages” was, is and will always be a myth, which is part of the great Marxist and Islamist revisionism of history. In fact, in those times Europe was going on fine (let us call it Golden Ages) until materialism and individualism caused the Protestant revolt and subsequently led to godlessness.

Church means Christian community, and I do not see any seperation of Church from politics. I however strongly believe in seperation of Church and State to ensure the Church (which is a private body) is indepedent from the State (which is public body).

Catholic Church teaches us human society comprises of three groups:

1. Sons of Jacob - members of Catholic Church Israel ]
2. Sons of Esav - Secularists, Marxists, etc Edom ]
3. Sons of Ismail - members of the Pharisees Islamism ]

In the Old Testament, the Book of Genesis Chapter 25, Verse 34, the God tells us :
"Then Jacob gave Esau bread and pottage of lentils, and he ate and drank, and rose and went his way. Thus Esau despised his birthright."

Our Lord tells us “Esav” refers to those members of human society who despise their birthright. As Esav and Jacob come from common parents, Isaac and Rebekah, we know they are of the same nation (called “West” or “Christian world”). In the times of our Lord Jesus on this earth, “Esav” refered to Saducees, Herodians and Romans who knew not the Scriptures nor the Power of God. So, it is basically secularists who are “Esav” but they are here by God’s command to serve us Christians who are “Jacob”. Yet they dislike us and wish to kill us. We must be careful of a choice of those secularists who can help us, at the same time vote for a political party that represents the Church.

freedomm:

Do you know how hard it was to get rid of the *Dark Ages * through the Renaissance? The Renaissance whose foundations actually laid down by the Arab/Muslim scientists/intellectuals.

This is false. Those Arab/Muslim scientists/intellectuals never obtained their knowledge on their own but from Greek, Syriac and Coptic sources of the Byzantine Empire. Due to forced conversion to Islam, those scientists who became Muslims brought their ideas with them. So, they were hardly Arab/Muslim in the first place and so do not deserve credit as “Muslim” scientists.

That is my 2 cents.

 

[pro_universal]

The so-called “Dark Ages” was, is and will always be a myth, which is part of the great Marxist and Islamist revisionism of history. In fact, in those times Europe was going on fine (let us call it Golden Ages) until materialism and individualism caused the Protestant revolt and subsequently led to godlessness.

Is this for real, or are you mocking Christian extremists by playing the ali-G character?

 

[onesimplemind]

pro_universal:

Is this for real, or are you mocking Christian extremists by playing the ali-G character?

Here is one example of the lack of intellectual thought in the Dark Ages. You see those lower-case letters you are using, that came from Carolingian Miniscule, developed in the 8th century. It made writing much easier, try handwriting with all caps. I can give more examples on the backwardness of the Dark Ages but that really should be another topic.

 

[pro_universal]

onesimplemind,

There is a huge gulf between “some good things came from that time period” and “that time period was Europe’s best, until that whole renaissance thing wrecked it and we ended up with modern democracies today.”

 

[onesimplemind]

pro_universal:

onesimplemind,

There is a huge gulf between “some good things came from that time period” and “that time period was Europe’s best, until that whole renaissance thing wrecked it and we ended up with modern democracies today.”

And there is even a huger gulf between the logic that high-minded arab/muslim intellectuals sparked the Renaissance and the state of backwardness of the Islamic countries today.

If the muslims contributed so much good to western societies, why have muslim countries not benefitted from that good also. If the foundations of the Renaissance was laid down by Islam, where are the Islamic lands that benefitted from these foundations. If muslim “thought” brought Europe out of the Dark Ages, what happened to the muslim cultures that originated these thoughts?

 

[pro_universal]

If muslim “thought” brought Europe out of the Dark Ages, what happened to the muslim cultures that originated these thoughts?

In large part it’s been under systematic attack by Saudis and their western oil buyers.

The idea that cultures may have high and low periods shouldn’t be too surprising. The rabble that was Europe in 500 A.D. had been Constantine’s Roman Empire just two hundred years before.

 

[onesimplemind]

pro_universal:

In large part it’s been under systematic attack by Saudis and their western oil buyers.

The idea that cultures may have high and low periods shouldn’t be too surprising. The rabble that was Europe in 500 A.D. had been Constantine’s Roman Empire just two hundred years before.

So the Saudis stifled what should have been 800 years of growth? Might as well blame Bush.

The Fall of Rome to this point of Western Civilization is not analogous to the height of the caliphates developing into Saudi and big oil stifling Islamic culture.

 

[Mike_D30]

pro_universal:

Sure, they were an attack to try and aid the Byzantines. They came about 400 years after the Muslims took most of that land. I can agree to that though.

Just like suicide bombing is response to Israeli aggression, right? Sure, the suicide bombings are excessive and an improper means, but they’re definitely a response to Israel grabbing land by force from Arabs.

See how minimizing “excesses” can work both ways?

You trying to use the Crusades to justify modern day suicide bombings is such a red herring I can’t even take you seriously. Stop with the red herring’s, and spouting off every bit of nonsense you heard in your first semester of political science class or heard on air america radio and I may take you relatively seriously.

Suicide bombing is not a reaction to Israeli aggression. Read your history, the Israeli’s have been systematically attacked from day one. No matter how hard you guys try, you will not rewrite history, sorry.

Suicide bombing is about power hungry mullah’s who warp young desperate men into thinking they’re doing God’s bidding, when really they’re doing the bidding of evil men, nothing else…

 

[pro_universal]

You trying to use the Crusades to justify modern day suicide bombings is such a red herring I can’t even take you seriously. Stop with the red herring’s, and spouting off every bit of nonsense you heard in your first semester of political science class or heard on air america radio and I may take you relatively seriously.

Take a deep breath and reread my post. I wasn’t justifying suicide bombings in any way, shape, or form. I was pointing out that the same analysis you use to minimize the crimes committed in the process of the crusades can be used to minimize what anti-Israeli militants do. There is an undeniable argument that the cause of removing Israeli soldiers from the West Bank and Gaza is just (the vast majority of Israel believes that also); does that mean we should just talk about suicide bombing as one dirty part of an overall just struggle?

Suicide bombing is not a reaction to Israeli aggression. Read your history, the Israeli’s have been systematically attacked from day one. No how hard you guys try you will not rewrite history, sorry.

Uh, no, they haven’t. The “day one” of Israel was an attack on Palestinians. Israel didn’t appear out of thin air in 1948. Rebel groups fought a war to create it. They attacked British troops (at their residences, including civilian staff) to remove them from the theater, and then systematically expelled Palestinian civilians all in the run-up to the arab states’ responses.

 

[Mike_D30]

pro_universal:

Take a deep breath and reread my post. I wasn’t justifying suicide bombings in any way, shape, or form.

Yeah O.K., you would use your strawmen and red herring’s to discredit Catholics in an attempt to make us no better than MODERN day extremeists killing thousands in America. I’ve seen so many of your type before, and I still get no less sickened. The crusages ended 700 years ago. 9/11 was five years ago, the Crusades are compeltely irrelevant. The only reason you bring it up, is to try to trick people into proving a point. But you have no point. You try to say Christians are doing the exact same thing. They aren’t killing en masse. We are at war with Iraq, and we are a SECULAR country not a Christian country. We have Hindu’s, Christians, atheists, Muslims, and Buddhists. And they are all represented in our Armed Forces.

Uh, no, they haven’t. The “day one” of Israel was an attack on Palestinians. Israel didn’t appear out of thin air in 1948. Rebel groups fought a war to create it.

You need to re-read your history books son.