Vatican bank image hurt as JP Morgan closes account [Is the government attacking the Church?]

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That survey was restricted to women aged 15-44, so that cuts out all women who were older than 44 at the time of the survey. And a footnote explains that a rather significant chunk of women were excluded from this figure of “all women” — namely, women who are pregnant, post-partum or trying to get pregnant.” A later footnote says that the only women who had sex in the last three months were included in this group. Finally, included in this 98 percent figure of current contraceptive users are the 11 percent who report no method.
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My mom is 91 and I don’t think she is using birth control either. :eek: The article I posted referred to women most apt to get pregnant. 15-44 is that group. I guess I don’t know what you are defending when 98% of Catholic women in their child bearing years use birth control. Even if you disagree with those numbers, you can’t disagree, reasonably anyway, with the fact is the overwhelming majority of Catholic women, just like all women, use birth control.

I can’t help but feel that if men could get pregnant, birth control would be handed out every Sunday with the bulletin at the back of the church! :rolleyes:
 
People change; God does not.
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God never prohibited birth control, men within the Church created that rule all on their own. There have been many man made prohibitions within the Church over the years that have been lifted. This one will one day be lifted too.
 
PTL said:
I am surprised and saddened that anyone could deny the Church is being attacked.
That is exactly why our country is in such a grave situation. Please wake up. The Church is seriously attacked, how could anyone not see the obvious fact?:eek:
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I believe it is more correct to say that secular society attacks the moral teaching of Christianity.
Peace, Carlan
 
Love_God_Too said:
God never prohibited birth control, men within the Church created that rule all on their own. There have been many man made prohibitions within the Church over the years that have been lifted. This one will one day be lifted too.
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Go read the story of Onan. It’s in the OT. God does prohibit artificial means of stopping his creation.👍
 
This is much ado about nothing. The Vatican is on a “watch list” with many other countries. The US is actually listed on a higher level of criminal watch on that same list.

As for JP Morgan Chase, that appears to be connected to the Vatican Bank’s issues with the EU.
 
Love_God_Too said:
58% of Catholics voted for him why would he want to attack us? As far as birth control goes more than 98% of Catholic’s use birth control. See below. Obama is just a Democrat, he’s not the anti-Christ. :eek:

salon.com/2012/02/02/catholics_need_to_preach_what_we_practice/
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Check your bloody sources!

The study comes from Guttmacher Institute; a group started by Planned Parenthood. They called the project: “Countering Conventional Wisdom…”

Let’s consider their work to be honest for argument sake. There are various individuals who use the research to support that “98% use”, while the information on Guttmacher website states, “have used”. This gives zero indication to the participants’ consideration towards using contraceptives, nor does it explain whether or not they use them currently. A person who may have used them could now reject them.

Furthermore, the information presented does not calculate to 98%. The group, along with others, include at least 11% who have not used contraceptives (categorized ‘no method’ in study) with those who have.

If anyone dared to look at the information provided by the ‘study’ are compared against those who use N.F.P.

More important - group didn’t take survey, but uses one from 2006-2008 National Survey of Family Growth. This study includes about 25,000 women (surveys from 1992, 2005, 2006-2008) plus 4953 men. It does not include the demographic of religion. In other words no one was asked what religion they followed.

Another study referenced (by American College of Obstetrics & Gynecology) state; in 2002 3.3% of 7,643and 6.2% of 7,356 from 06-08 study were asked similar questions, claimed being Catholic. These numbers do not conclude 98%. These figures don’t even add up to match National Survey of Family Growth surveys which they are compared to.

Take a look at how the ‘study’ was done and it will reveal it does not and cannot create a factual conclusion. It expresses the logical fallacy of composition. It is not neutral but made to support an agenda.
 
Carlan said:
I believe it is more correct to say that secular society attacks the moral teaching of Christianity.
Peace, Carlan
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Whether it is secular society attacks the moral teaching of Christianity, or the government attacks people’s right of the 1st Amendment, it is an attack, a serious attack on the Church, particularly in the current HHS mandate case. Our religious freedom is violated.

If 100% students cheat on test, it does not give the school a position to announce “cheating on exams are right, let us all cheat in exams”.

I find the left wing who have very liberal moral standard (or next to none, everything goes) can find every excuse to justify their liberal views. They can modify anything. When there are thousands people rally against HHS mandate, they will say there are only couple hundreds the most. When Obamacare undeniably promotes abortion, they still can deny the fact. Even they are “Catholics”, knowing Obama is the number one abortion advocate, they still can vote for him. They call black white, white black. It is useless to reason with them. It is useless to explain, they are determined to be liberal to the end. They act like they don’t have to give an account to the Lord.

Yes, we are to love our enemies. It does not mean to agree or tolerate the evil and be hushed with our own moral standard. It means to pray for their conversion, to help them in their needs. For example, if a left wing’s car broke down by the road, a conservative will not hesitate to give him a ride, if a liberal is starving, a conservative will not hesitate to provide him with food. To love our enemies is to treat them as we treat our friends. But make no mistake, to love our enemy is not to comply with their value. At the end, I just cannot see how a true Jesus’ follower can vote for an abortion president and give his account to the Lord. How could a true Catholic even go through the exam of conscience at the end of the day. How can a person say to God, " yes, Lord, I know Obama’s policy kills many unborn, but, that is OK for me to vote him so his policy will be carried out more." :eek:
 
Check your bloody sources!
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Denying that the overwhelming majority of Catholic women of child bearing age are using some form of birth control is simply FALSE on it’s face. You may not like that fact. You may want to lash out at the research source, IE: “Shoot the messenger”. Facts are facts. Is that number 98%? Who knows for sure… What we do know is it IS an overwhelming majority.
 
Love_God_Too said:
Denying that the overwhelming majority of Catholic women of child bearing age are using some form of birth control is simply FALSE on it’s face. You may not like that fact. You may want to lash out at the research source, IE: “Shoot the messenger”. Facts are facts. Is that number 98%? Who knows for sure… What we do know is it IS an overwhelming majority.
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Just to remind you of what you originally posted:
Love_God_Too said:
As far as birth control goes more than 98% of Catholic’s use birth control. See below. Obama is just a Democrat, he’s not the anti-Christ. :eek:
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So all the catholic women who are either post menopause, or are not sexually active practice birth control too? LOL. You really need to check your facts as a previous poster told you. And what does whether a majority of catholics using birth control have to do with whether the govt led by the Obama administration is harrassing or otherwise attacking the church? Both could be happening at the same time, no? Not sure of your point.

Ishii
 
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I find the left wing who have very liberal moral standard (or next to none, everything goes) can find every excuse to justify their liberal views.
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I find it fascinating that you can dismiss the wars started by Bush and the thousands killed, The political right’s position on the poor, the death penalty, so on and so on. Are those lives somehow less important? The Holy See is opposed to the political right’s position on all of those activities as well. I believe your position is motivated by your politics more than your faith.

Oh by the way… You can’t read the New Testament and come away with any conclusion other than “Jesus was a Liberal himself”. Feeding the poor, health care for all, end of wars, do you really believe Jesus would be opposed to those LEFT principles? I think not.
 
ishii said:
Just to remind you of what you originally posted:

So all the catholic women who are either post menopause, or are not sexually active practice birth control too? LOL. You really need to check your facts as a previous poster told you. And what does whether a majority of catholics using birth control have to do with whether the govt led by the Obama administration is harrassing or otherwise attacking the church? Both could be happening at the same time, no? Not sure of your point.

Ishii
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The point was originally why would Obama want to attack his voter base that he won the majority of, Catholics. Read to initial post that started this thread. It was in response to that.

As far as the overwhelming majority of Catholic women use birth control, It too was in response to the initial post of this thread.

As too post menopausal women and birth control, well I thought it would simply be understood by rational people that I was speaking of those who could get pregnant.
 
Left doe not want to feed the poor, they want all to become poor. Communism wants all to be poor so all is controlled by the government. Feeding the poor is definitely the right wings’ position,the church’s position, not the left’s position. The left wants to have total control of people. And saying Jesus is a liberal is the biggest twist I have heard.
 
PTL said:
Left doe not want to feed the poor, they want all to become poor. Communism wants all to be poor so all is controlled by the government. Feeding the poor is definitely the right wings’ position,the church’s position, not the left’s position. The left wants to have total control of people. And saying Jesus is a liberal is the biggest twist I have heard.
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Bearing false witness you’re not big on either I see. Just because I’m a Democrat I’m a communist? Hmmmmmmmm

I noticed you skipped over the wars and the death penalty conveniently:shrug:…
 
Love_God_Too said:
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I find it fascinating that you can dismiss the wars started by Bush and the thousands killed, The political right’s position on the poor, the death penalty, so on and so on. Are those lives somehow less important? The Holy See is opposed to the political right’s position on all of those activities as well. I believe your position is motivated by your politics more than your faith.
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There is a just war theory that the Church acknowleges. However, there isn’t a “just abortion theory” or a “just contraception theory”. The Church does not say ** how ** we are to help the poor, only that it is the responsibility of all of us to do so. So your statement that the Holy See is opposed to those who call for different policies to help the poor - e.g. different than the ineffective redistributionist policies of the left which basically rob Peter to pay Paul (and conveniently get the votes of Paul) - your statement is wrong.
Love_God_Too said:
Oh by the way… You can’t read the New Testament and come away with any conclusion other than “Jesus was a Liberal himself”. Feeding the poor, health care for all, end of wars, do you really believe Jesus would be opposed to those LEFT principles? I think not.
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Jesus was a liberal? He would support the leftist goal of abortion funding for all? Jesus called for us to help the poor - but he didn’t tell us to simply confiscate wealth from the wealthy and give it to the poor so they would become more dependent on wealth redistribution and govt. programs, did he? Your analysis is flawed - I understand your desire to rationalize the leftist secular ideology, but please- don’t insult our intelligence. If you said that the basic American/protestant “health-wealth” capitalist, materialist ideology (which some catholics subscribe to, and a lot of Republicans do too) also falls short of the ideal then I would agree with you on that.

Ishii
 
Soon to be Saint John Paul came out against the wars and the death penalty as Pope… Read his letters… But don’t let that get in the way of your political faith.
 
Love_God_Too said:
Bearing false witness you’re not big on either I see. Just because I’m a Democrat I’m a communist? Hmmmmmmmm

I noticed you skipped over the wars and the death penalty conveniently:shrug:…
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The Church allows for the death penalty in certain circumstances. In America there were 43 executions last year. There were 827,609 abortions reported in the US in 2011. Yet you only focus on the 43 executed and ignore the 827,609. Why? Perhaps your political faith is getting in the way?

Ishii
 
Soon to be Saint John Paul called on all the worlds governments to do more for the poor too…
 
Love_God_Too said:
Soon to be Saint John Paul called on all the worlds governments to do more for the poor too…
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How is creating more poor and increasing the size of those dependent on govt handouts, “doing more for the poor” ?
 
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