Vatican book on Templars' demise

[Nohome]

many of the confessions were obtained under torture and knights later recanted or tried to claim that their initiation ceremony merely mimicked the humiliation the knights would suffer if they fell into the hands of the Muslim leader Saladin.

The leader of the order, Jacques de Moley, was one of those who confessed to heresy, but later recanted.

He was burned at the stake in Paris in 1314, the same year that the Pope dissolved the order.

However, according to Prof Frale, study of the document shows that the knights were not heretics as had been believed for 700 years.

In fact she says “the Pope was obliged to ask for pardons from the knights… the document we have found absolves them”.

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7029513.stm

I wouldn’t go out and join the Freemasons just yet.

Nohome

 

[Abraxsis]

From just that little quote you showed I know that to be the truth about DeMoley.

Just so you know there is an order of DeMoley similar to the FreeMasons.

 

[Nohome]

From just that little quote you showed I know that to be the truth about DeMoley.

Just so you know there is an order of DeMoley similar to the FreeMasons.

DeMoley is the young men’s organization of Freemasonry. Actualy, the tie between Freemasonry and the Knights Templar didn’t occur until the 1700’s and is really just lore. I was just adding a flippant comment to go with the story.

Nohome

 

[Shellac]

Tie between Freemasonry and the Knights Templar? Thay wish. As a Catholic who likes milatary history this one bugs me lots.

 

[jimcav]

I read somewhere that the Vatican is only going to publish about 800 copies of the Knights Templar book, so the chances of any of us seeing it are slim to none.

I wonder who will get the honor of being chosen to read it?

 

[CathCentrist]

So then the Church DOES supress books and info that shows them in a bad light?

Wait…I just forgot about the sex scandal for a moment and that massive coverup

 

[Milliardo]

A much more detailed story about this can be found here: news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20071012/ts_nm/vatican_templars_dc

 

[jimcav]

So then the Church DOES supress books and info that shows them in a bad light?

Well, we’re not really sure how the Church will come out looking, do we? Personally, I think that it was King Phillip that takes the lions share of the blame for destroying the Templars, but that said, Pope Clement could have been stronger in their defence.

I am interested to finally find out after all these years of speculation, who really was at fault for their demise, I’m sure that the scholars and the religous who are lucky enough to study this book will do books, publications and works on their own about it, and the Church has to know that, so you cannot say that the Church is suppresing this subject any longer.

I wonder how the Freemasons are going to view this book, since it is they that lay claim, however speculatively, to being decendents of the Templars?

 

[OriginalJS]

In the early 14th century because of pressure from the Colonna family, and others, who refused to let the Pope set up operations in Rome, the French King Phillip IV offered the papacy a home in Avignon. For years afterward, the Church was virtually under the control of the King of France. It was only much later in the century that the seat was removed back to Rome, which was then followed by schism which eventually resulted in there being two and then three men claiming to be Pope.

Phillip needed lots of money and the Knights Templar had it. Phillip wanted it, Phillip simply pressured the Pope’s decision about the Knights, proceeded to persecute the Order and grabbed the money. Many were killed - Jacques DeMolay being one; others escaped.

I think this absolves the Pope. At that time he was subject to the direction of the French king and had no alternative but to obey.

This is a fascinating era to read about.

As a matter of interest the persecution of the Order started on Friday the 13th, which is why now we consider Friday the 13th to be an unlucky day.

 

[OriginalJS]

I wonder how the Freemasons are going to view this book, since it is they that lay claim, however speculatively, to being decendents of the Templars?

I don’t think it will make any difference for a couple of reasons:

1. The issue whether the Knights survived, and if so how, is so shrouded in mystery as to be impenetrable. Many, many claims have been made about those considered to be descended from the Knights Templar.
2. For most of the 14th Century the Papacy was subservient to the French monarchy, at least in temporal matters, so it won’t matter to many of those interested who gave the order for eradication of the Knights. Besides, as a technical matter, it was the Pope who ultimately condemned the Knights even if he did so at the direction of the King.

 

[OriginalJS]

I read somewhere that the Vatican is only going to publish about 800 copies of the Knights Templar book, so the chances of any of us seeing it are slim to none.

I wonder who will get the honor of being chosen to read it?

Yes, and each copy will cost almost $9,000.00!

 

[Maranatha]

Well, we’re not really sure how the Church will come out looking, do we? Personally, I think that it was King Phillip that takes the lions share of the blame for destroying the Templars, but that said, Pope Clement could have been stronger in their defence.

I’m not sure Pope Clement could have been more lenient. His absolved them of the heresy charges but suppressed the order. The Knight’s “tried to claim that their initiation ceremony merely mimicked the humiliation the knights would suffer if they fell into the hands of the Muslim leader Saladin.” This claim, not under torture, would be scandalous at the time and many would call for the dissolution of the order at minimum.

I don’t think the Pope had any choice but to suppress the order. Now, who thinks the suppression will be lifted, perhaps at the 700 year anniversary of the original suppression?

 

[Nohome]

Now, who thinks the suppression will be lifted, perhaps at the 700 year anniversary of the original suppression?

Doesn’t the publishing of these documents sort of lift the suppression de facto? What would be accomplished by doing anything formal? It’s sort of like JPII vindicating Galileo, he said the church was wrong and the world said “duh”!

Nohome

 

[jimcav]

Here’s some other intersting news on the demise of the Templars from EWTN -

Various legends have accrued to their reputation, including the most recent claim that the knights possessed the Holy Grail.

The rediscovered document, known as the Chinon parchment, is an original account in Latin of the investigation and trial of the Knights Templar. The investigation took place in Rome between 1307 and 1312. **According to the document, Pope Clement V exonerated the Templars on the charge of heresy, but found them guilty of other infractions. He also ordered the Knights Templar to disband. **

The Chinon parchment was lost for centuries after a cataloguing error. It was rediscovered five years ago by Barbara Frale, a historian who works in the Vatican Library’s Secret Archives.

The new book’s publisher, Scrinium, has already published two other digitally mastered and hand-finished collections of color reproductions of precious documents from the Secret Archives.

The document is 20 inches wide by six and a half feet long - the size of a small dining table.

The parchment is being reproduced for academic libraries. Copies will be printed on synthetic parchment and packaged in a soft leather case with a reproduction of the original papal wax seal. Each of the eight hundred copies will cost $8,000. Seven hundred and ninety nine copies will be available for sale and the final copy will be presented to Pope Benedict.

The boldface statement is interesting, and it’s something that I didn’t really know. Was this already common knowledge?

Still nothing about the Templars possessing the Holy Grail…

 

[Rolltide]

I read somewhere that the Vatican is only going to publish about 800 copies of the Knights Templar book, so the chances of any of us seeing it are slim to none.

I wonder who will get the honor of being chosen to read it?

Apparently you missed the part about most of the 800 copies being sold to research libraries around the world. This will be widely available to academia to use for research. You have to understand, this book is NOT meant to be read cover-to-cover, as such. It’s thousands of documents that have been collected from many places involving the Knights Templar and reproduced to replicate their original handwritten appearance in Latin. This primary source collection will be available for historians to go and utilize for research so that THEY can compile it into readable books for the rest of us. Honestly, 800 copies is a staggering figure for a simple document collection. It’s clear that the Vatican considers this very important and is trying to make it easily available to researchers, although you might have to travel to a major research library. They printed so many copies so as to protect the very delicate and fragile original sources.

By the way, I’m pretty familiar with these kinds of documentary sources because I’m a professional historian. I do quite a bit of work at the National Archives and Library of Congress. Trust me, most of the time, if ten copies of a source are made and distributed, it would be considered a LOT.