Vatican call to formalise Communion ritual

[CallistusPM]

I like the way that you state that making a Deep Bow is your personal choice. Just as it is a personal choice for those who choose to kneel or genuflect. I also believe that we should respect Cardinal Lavorse’s recommendation of returning to kneeling for reception of Communion. I just don’t think that he intended this to be done without a Communion rail or any kneeling aids when many Communicants would have difficulty going down and getting up.

12 Aug.: St. Clare, V - Not only does the good cardinal recomment this but so does the pope, kneeling and on the tongue, not in the hand.

 

[zab]

12 Aug.: St. Clare, V - Not only does the good cardinal recomment this but so does the pope, kneeling and on the tongue, not in the hand.

Yes, and those who receive Communion from the pope are provided with a prie dieu.

 

[paperwight66]

12 Aug.: St. Clare, V - Not only does the good cardinal recomment this but so does the pope, kneeling and on the tongue, not in the hand.

The Pope requires this only of people receiving directly from him. He does not order that everyone does so at the Masses at which he presides.

As has been pointed out many many times, The Holy Father in his latest book, ‘The Light of the World’, says that he ‘has no problem’ with CITH, and has both given and received that way himself. The reason why he insists on COTT for those receiving from him is for the sign value, that is to say, to impress on those observing the ceremony, for instance on television, that the occasion is holy, and also to get round the appalling fact that it has been known for people receiving from him to keep the Host as a souvenir.

 

[evener]

RE CallistusPM Gutting our churches
Having been away many decades I recently returned to visit God in the church that in 1959 I received confirmation in.
It was as you described, Gutted. Even the larger than life crucifix above where the altar was is replaced by a big picture of the last supper, helping to change the idea of sacrifice to simply a meal of remembrance.
Bishops and priests made the changes on their own, nowhere in the beautiful Vatican 2 documents were such changes recommended.
It is good that some of them are now seeing the damage that was caused.

 

[CallistusPM]

13Aug: SS Hippolytus&Cassian, MM

Could all of this be moot when, on the First Sunday of Advent next, new liturgical reforms will again take place? I am not yet familiar with the particulars; perhaps some of you are?

 

[Joannm]

13Aug: SS Hippolytus&Cassian, MM

Could all of this be moot when, on the First Sunday of Advent next, new liturgical reforms will again take place? I am not yet familiar with the particulars; perhaps some of you are?

There are no reforms to the liturgy itself. It is a revision of the English translation of the texts.

 

[Love_Divine]

There are no reforms to the liturgy itself. It is a revision of the English translation of the texts.

Not entirely true! The GIRM no longer contains the nonsense of “catechizing those who choose to kneel on the reason for the norm of standing.”

Kneel all you like folks! Just last week I had the pleasure of kneeling to receive communion from my bishop, who has spend several years in Rome working at the Vatican, and knows what reverent reception is all about.

 

[AntalKalnoky]

13Aug: SS Hippolytus&Cassian, MM

Could all of this be moot when, on the First Sunday of Advent next, new liturgical reforms will again take place? I am not yet familiar with the particulars; perhaps some of you are?

The changes are a more beautiful change in wording/responses to show more respect to Our Lord, God, from the current wording in which we sound like being in charge, talking down to The Lord, like the current “Lord, hear our prayer”. The Priest’s Prayers and Bible readings are more Accuratelly translated from the Latin. There are Search sites available re the modifications, as well as seminars in each Diocese and Parish upcoming.

 

[ProVobis]

Not entirely true! The GIRM no longer contains the nonsense of “catechizing those who choose to kneel on the reason for the norm of standing.”

Shouldn’t GIRM changes affect the Spanish and Polish Masses as well?

 

[ProVobis]

The changes are a more beautiful change in wording/responses to show more respect to Our Lord, God…

That may be but I seem to recall the current English translations have had numerous defenders throughout the last 40 years too. How can the new translations be objectively more “respectful” than the existing ones? They are still in English; everyone has a different opinion of translations and every Latin scholar would probably translate it differently, given his different interpretation of each English word and phrase.

 

[Little_One0307]

Not entirely true! The GIRM no longer contains the nonsense of “catechizing those who choose to kneel on the reason for the norm of standing.”

Kneel all you like folks! Just last week I had the pleasure of kneeling to receive communion from my bishop, who has spend several years in Rome working at the Vatican, and knows what reverent reception is all about.

WOOT. So glad to hear that phrase is gone out of the GIRM at last.

I am so glad we can kneel without drawing undue catechesis. Three cheers for the Vatican for standing errgh kneeling firm on this issue.

 

[CallistusPM]

14Aug.: Vigil of Assumption of the BVM; St. Eusebius, C

Just think, all of this obfuscation, individual interpretations, uncertainty, bickering, and constant reforms of the sacred liturgy could have been avoided had the Immemorial Liturgy of our chuch fathers - the solumn, sacred rite stemming from its inception at the beginning of Christianity, been left alone. There was no need for liturgical reform at Vatican II. The latest reforms this Advent will continue to try and recapture that which was changed forty years ago. True universality will only be achieved when the Western Church, once again, totally embraces the ancient, orthodox “Extraordinary Rite.”

 

[2livfree]

Please check the article on: cathnewsusa.com/2011/08/vatican-call-to-formalise-communion-ritual/ Antonio Cardinal Llovera, Prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, encourages Catholics to recieve the Communion while kneeling! He finds it an important sign of adoration that needs to be recovered, and adds, ‘It is to simply know that we are before God himself and that he came to us and that we are undeserving.’ His Eminence also points out that a Catholic receiving the Communion while standing should genuflect or bow profoundly. Interesting! I often feel it is not enough to just approach and receive the Communion reverently. I used to genuflect but lately, and for the silly excuse of not to attract attention, I bow and make a sign of the Cross before stepping to receive the Holy Communion then go back to my seat and kneel. I would love to kneel and worship, it is the real presence of the Almighty God, the Saviour!! Peace, Rina

If you would love to then do it! I receive on my knees and I’m the only one in my Parrish that does! But many come up to me and thank me or say how wonderful it is that I show such respect for the Eucharist. Now my husband receives on one knee. It’s contagious when they put a kneeler to assist people that’s when you won’t be alone on your knees before Christ! Don’t forget to gnash Him between your teeth!
Sursum Corda!

 

[Knittycat]

That is great! I wonder if they’ll start installing communion rails.

 

[PA650]

14Aug.: Vigil of Assumption of the BVM; St. Eusebius, C

Just think, all of this obfuscation, individual interpretations, uncertainty, bickering, and constant reforms of the sacred liturgy could have been avoided had the Immemorial Liturgy of our chuch fathers - the solumn, sacred rite stemming from its inception at the beginning of Christianity, been left alone. There was no need for liturgical reform at Vatican II. The latest reforms this Advent will continue to try and recapture that which was changed forty years ago. True universality will only be achieved when the Western Church, once again, totally embraces the ancient, orthodox “Extraordinary Rite.”

The most tragic element of the reforms of the liturgy following the Second Vatican Council is that the liturgy itself is nothing but a product that can be changed continuously, from parish to parish, diocese to diocese, and Pope to Pope instead of an ‘immemorial liturgy of our church fathers’ as you stated that organically developments throughout time.

 

[At_Trent]

The most tragic element of the reforms of the liturgy following the Second Vatican Council is that the liturgy itself is nothing but a product that can be changed continuously, from parish to parish, diocese to diocese, and Pope to Pope instead of an ‘immemorial liturgy of our church fathers’ as you stated that organically developments throughout time.

Exactly. In many places we are back to square one. The reason the Gregorian Rite (TLM) was codified was to prevent/eliminate discrepancies.

Hopefully, the new Missal will get the OF back on track so there are no surprises from parish to parish.

 

[At_Trent]

Please watch this brief video
gloria.tv/?media=169603

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Come and kneel before Him now.

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Mind is on me.
He is My Redeemer, He is My Savior, He is My God, He is My Priest, He is My Joy, He is My Comfort, He is My Lord, and He rules my life."**

 

[AntalKalnoky]

14Aug.: Vigil of Assumption of the BVM; St. Eusebius, C

Just think, all of this obfuscation, individual interpretations, uncertainty, bickering, and constant reforms of the sacred liturgy could have been avoided had the Immemorial Liturgy of our chuch fathers - the solumn, sacred rite stemming from its inception at the beginning of Christianity, been left alone. There was no need for liturgical reform at Vatican II. The latest reforms this Advent will continue to try and recapture that which was changed forty years ago. True universality will only be achieved when the Western Church, once again, totally embraces the ancient, orthodox “Extraordinary Rite.”[/QUOT] The Tridentine Rite is of the 1500’s. The Modest wording changes Advent on show a greater Reverence for Our Lord/God.

 

[AntalKalnoky]

The most tragic element of the reforms of the liturgy following the Second Vatican Council is that the liturgy itself is nothing but a product that can be changed continuously, from parish to parish, diocese to diocese, and Pope to Pope instead of an ‘immemorial liturgy of our church fathers’ as you stated that organically developments throughout time.

Not true. Cannon Law and the Vatican, Bishops Conferences are the only ones to change or alter Any Liturgy. And the Novus Ordo is based on Vatican Research on the Earliest Mass of the First Centuries, in Local Vernacular. The USCCB with Vatican agreement authorized the minor attitude and wording changes pending. See the USCCB rules on Liturgy and worship. The soon modest and beautiful changes are the Multi-Year result of a Vatican initiative for English wording closer to the original Latin. The local Bishop has the responsibility that Liturgy Norms are followed.

 

[PA650]

Not true. Cannon Law and the Vatican, Bishops Conferences are the only ones to change or alter Any Liturgy. And the Novus Ordo is based on Vatican Research on the Earliest Mass of the First Centuries, in Local Vernacular. The USCCB with Vatican agreement authorized the minor attitude and wording changes pending. See the USCCB rules on Liturgy and worship. The soon modest and beautiful changes are the Multi-Year result of a Vatican initiative for English wording closer to the original Latin. The local Bishop has the responsibility that Liturgy Norms are followed.

First, nothing you have stated will prevent ‘Fr. Spirit of Vatican II’ from creating his own version of the Roman Missal whenever he celebrates Mass. Second, I’m not too interested in antiquarianism that resurrected elements of the Roman Rite absent for over a thousand years and has obscured the process of organic development in the liturgical life of the Church.