Vatican calls for Central World Bank

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Ridgerunner said:
I just couldn’t resist going to lay eyes on the man, so I went there, and sure enough, there he was. Mr. Orange Order himself. But what was interesting was that he started off preaching and, except for the accent, you would have thought the congregation had just gotten off the boat from Northern Ireland themselves. In no way was he different in the way he preached, and their reactions were the same as to their own preachers. Of course, the locals are pretty much Scots-Irish, so i guess I shouldn’t have been too surprised. But a 300 year separation and they’re still on the same wavelength? Wow!
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Yes, it still goes on. Paisley was recently on Irish TV quite openly calling the Catholic Mass a blasphemy.
 
Sufjon said:
As of 2008, corn-fed cattle are the norm. While most cattle still begin their lives grazing on grass, the vast majority - an estimated three-quarters of them, are “finished,” or fattened for market, in feedlots. There, they spend three to six months (and most of their lives are only 11 months long in total) eating a diet composed of 70 to 90 percent corn. - U.S. Department of Agriculture. Of course, corn makes them sick, and this is why they are pumped full of antibiotics, and health officials are concerned that this is leading to problems such as antibiotic resistance in humans, as well as early puberty and early menopause.

Your friend
Sufjon
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Corn fed cattle are not the norm. “Grain fed” cattle are the norm when it comes to feeders only, and their feed is composed of many things, not just corn nowadays. And the feeding period is 80-120 days now. I don’t doubt it was longer in the past when grain was cheap, and undoubtedly a lot more corn was used previously. The “backgrounding” industry grew up to fill the gaps that existed between pasture and feed lot, but most “backgrounding” is done on wheat fields while the wheat is still just grass. Most feeders are slaughtered at 16 months, not 11, but it can go higher than 16, all the way to 30. It isn’t done by age, particularly, but by physiognomy, and there is a lot of breed variation.

“Feeders” are young steers and some heifers, almost exclusively of beef breeds that have not been fed grain. “Live cattle”, whether fed grain or not, are those that are ready for slaughter. Milking breed steers and heifers are not desirable feeders and are usually slaughtered without grain feeding.

If you look at feeder prices and live cattle prices, you will see that the prices/lb for heavy feeders is very little different from that of live cattle. The heavy feeders do go to feed lots, though not all do. The light feeders go to backgrounders. The reason for all of this, and it was once absolutely not the case, is that more and more feeders are sold “heavy” to the feed lots, meaning they spend a larger percentage of their lives on grass than previously.
Prices reflect that. Prices for “heavies” are much closer to those of lightweights now, as feed lots “upstream” the cost of gain back to the ranchers. If the ranchers have enough grass, both win.

All grain feeding of feeders is done to induce “marbling” in the meat. That is popular in the U.S., not so in other countries. Australians, for example, prefer fully grass-fed, as do I. In my opinion, Americans aren’t doing themselves a favor by wanting heavy “marbling”, because “marbling” is nothing but fat. Grass-fed is expensive simply because it isn’t “mainstream” in the U.S. The industry isn’t geared to it. But a person who wants it can, with a little effort, buy it “on the hoof” from a rancher and have it butchered in one of the family-owned processors that dot the countryside. I personally prefer grass-fed. The most flavorful beef of all, in my opinion, is that of a yearling bull.

You did not cite your USDA source for the assertion that 70-90% of feeder rations are corn. Presumably you will post it. I find it very difficult to accept, since corn itself is low in protein and is not a good main dietary ingredient for that reason, in addition to its relative indigestibility. If, when you say “corn” you include brewers/distillers’ grain, you might be right, though i doubt even that’s the case anymore. Brewers’/distillers’ grain is much higher in protein as a percentage because the sugars and starches have been largely removed in the distilling process. I personally go to feed mills regularly, and they sure don’t put much actual corn in anything. Most feed preparations contain none at all. I will grant that there is a lot of corn silage being fed. But the actual grain corn in corn silage isn’t all that big a part of the whole. Most of the nutrition (and certainly most of the protein) comes from the fermentation which unlocks the nutrients that are otherwise locked in stalk and leaf cellulose. Corn is, after all, just a grass, and that’s mainly what corn silage is.

Now, if it is your point that corn in all its forms and by products, including corn silage and distiller’s grain, are inherently harmful, then it has to be granted that corn is one of the big ingredients in cattle feed, but not the only one, and by weight not the largest one.

But, as yet, you have not provided reputable scientific sources establishing that corn is inherently harmful to humans or animals, either one. Possibly you will.
 
About diet…we have New Seasons groceries here, and they are expanding…opened a new store and it is packed with customers…grass fed cattle…in a region where e coli has killed some people…

I found a great classic Italian recipe for making home made tomato sauce…but this year, I couldn’t get to the farm that provided excellent romas. So I bought some a the store…and the sauce and yield were poor. Never again.

BigFellaMack is addressing what I see here in the USA is the ideas that can come out of it, including our own brand of Christian fundamentalism and restorationism where people refuse to look at church history. It is all part of the territory of living here…and why I am backing off from trying to help them understand our faith and church better.

I try to spend my time praying more for them than arguing and debating.

National Catholic Register online brought out a response to the Vatican call…it is not magisterial, meaning binding, but is to be noted from the Social Justice branch of the Church. Totalitarianism doesn’t work. There is always going to be tension between the Church and the world.

I think just wage goes for both ends…the common worker…and the entrepreneur, those who spent many years in school to serve society such as your doctors and engineers…they deserve just compensation as well for their services.

I agree with Sufjon that we live in a most complex world…a number of people are beginning to wonder if a catastrophic collapse is needed so we can return to more simple lives, simple diets—and community. I find it very hard to find community having a toxic donut and a cup of coffee…

The document is appearing politically and economically naive to some quarters. But to state it as the Vatican…considering all the different disciplines…is inflating it.

The Church simply proposes…it is up to the person to accept or reject…The present World Bank…Federal Reserve is an international entity, NATO is here…and they are not achieving their goals. Recently, they are now accommodating Islamic fundamentalist regimes to take over the countries who had their dictators taken out.
 
KathleenGee said:
About diet…we have New Seasons groceries here, and they are expanding…opened a new store and it is packed with customers…grass fed cattle…in a region where e coli has killed some people…

I found a great classic Italian recipe for making home made tomato sauce…but this year, I couldn’t get to the farm that provided excellent romas. So I bought some a the store…and the sauce and yield were poor. Never again.

BigFellaMack is addressing what I see here in the USA is the ideas that can come out of it, including our own brand of Christian fundamentalism and restorationism where people refuse to look at church history. It is all part of the territory of living here…and why I am backing off from trying to help them understand our faith and church better.

I try to spend my time praying more for them than arguing and debating.

National Catholic Register online brought out a response to the Vatican call…it is not magisterial, meaning binding, but is to be noted from the Social Justice branch of the Church. Totalitarianism doesn’t work. There is always going to be tension between the Church and the world.

I think just wage goes for both ends…the common worker…and the entrepreneur, those who spent many years in school to serve society such as your doctors and engineers…they deserve just compensation as well for their services.

I agree with Sufjon that we live in a most complex world…a number of people are beginning to wonder if a catastrophic collapse is needed so we can return to more simple lives, simple diets—and community. I find it very hard to find community having a toxic donut and a cup of coffee…

The document is appearing politically and economically naive to some quarters. But to state it as the Vatican…considering all the different disciplines…is inflating it.

The Church simply proposes…it is up to the person to accept or reject…The present World Bank…Federal Reserve is an international entity, NATO is here…and they are not achieving their goals. Recently, they are now accommodating Islamic fundamentalist regimes to take over the countries who had their dictators taken out.
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The Vatican article might be at least partially moot at this point. I see where the northern European countries have agreed to beef up the EU bailout funds for Greek securities. There are more shoes to drop, I’m sure, but this probably alleviates some of the panic in Europe for now.
 
KathleenGee said:
About diet…we have New Seasons groceries here, and they are expanding…opened a new store and it is packed with customers…grass fed cattle…in a region where e coli has killed some people…

.
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Grass fed is no protection against e coli. The contamination, when it occurs, is due to slip-ups in the processing.

Interestingly, I read a few years back about a study in Germany in which it was discovered that people who were raised on cattle farms had relative immunity to the more severe forms of e coli as adults. The conclusion was that (as with some other diseases) childhood onset is relatively mild while adult onset is more severe; that the German farm kids would get a mild form and acquire immunity from early exposure to it in the corrals or barns.

Urban living has its advantages, but some disadvantages as well. There are also those who believe that the relative increase in asthma is also due to a lack of exposure to widely-varied allergens early in life. I am not sure that is well-established, but it could be true.
 
BigFellaMick said:
…I don’t know why in america its such a phenomenon. The truthers movement that won’t shut up about 9/11 and government involvement. There’s people still hunting bigfoot. People claim to be abducted by aliens all the time. And while those are mostly isolated elements (minus the truthers), this is just icing on the cake for all these conspiracy theorists…
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The things you mention, to a large degree, operate as myth and folklore. Bigfoot is a good example (because no one is politially attached to him). His sightings mainly occur in the English-speaking world of North America, much like Chupacabra appears in the Spanish-speaking areas. It is because he is a cultural phenomenon, not a fact of the natural world. Similarly, conspiracy stories are just that: stories. Currently, Americans have a taste for stories in which small, but powerful groups of bad actors behind the scenes manipulate and control the destiny of millions. You can see it in our art, particularly movies, and of course our politics.
 
Ridgerunner…interesting point…I worked in a health profession where doctors in a certain discipline had been tested positive for a virus, built up their own natural immunity to it, that was absolutely not transmitted to the public…
 
KathleenGee said:
Ridgerunner…interesting point…I worked in a health profession where doctors in a certain discipline had been tested positive for a virus, built up their own natural immunity to it, that was absolutely not transmitted to the public…
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I wish I knew more about epidemiology. It’s a very interesting subject. As is probably obvious, I have some interest in the subject of cattle as well. It may be noted that there are a number of “animal vector” diseases as well as “insect vector” diseases like malaria.

While influenza is not, strictly speaking, an “animal vector” disease, its new versions seem to be, and seem to be the result of viruses traded among pigs, ducks and humans, largely in Asia. When transferred to a different creature, the virus seems to pick up DNA changes from resident viruses, to come up with a new form of the disease.

There are “cattle vector” diseases other than e coli. Brucellosis certainly being one, and being the reason why we pasteurize milk. Certanily leptospirosis. It is interesting that smallpox is at least related to the cattle vector disease of cowpox. It’s possible that the relative immunity to smallpox enjoyed by Europeans (though it can be deadly among them) versus Amerinds was due to millenia of European association with cattle. But it has surprised me more than once to learn that I had some upper respiritory disease myself for which I vaccinate cattle. I do not vaccinate myself, but it has occurred to me that perhaps people ought to be vaccinated against more animal vector diseases than we are.

I was once astonished to be rejected for giving blood because of it. I was asked by the nurse whether I ever vaccinate cattle. Well, yes, was my reply. “Have you, in the last year, scratched or punctured yourself with a needle doing that?” Well sure, you almost can’t help it. She sent me away with the explanation that they couldn’t give my blood to someone because I might be unknowingly carrying some cattle disease that would be transmitted to someone with no immunity to it. The vaccine wasn’t the problem, it was the fact that you use the same needle over and over again with cattle and I might have gotten some blood-borne contamination, however miniscule.

I also read once that it is wise to allow children to be slobbered on by pet dogs. Same deal. They get exposed to “dog vector” diseases with little adverse affect, but which could be more serious if acquired as an adult.

Maybe the inherent childhood desire to get dirty or slobbered on is actually a survival strategy of a sort. 🤷
 
This is such a non-story. It’s the opinion of ONE person, yet Drudge had it up as the title of this thread with a picture of the Pope. It gives the anti-Catholics something to salivate over.
Almost makes me miss the days of three network news broadcasts…:cool:
 
JHow said:
The things you mention, to a large degree, operate as myth and folklore. Bigfoot is a good example (because no one is politially attached to him). His sightings mainly occur in the English-speaking world of North America, much like Chupacabra appears in the Spanish-speaking areas. It is because he is a cultural phenomenon, not a fact of the natural world. Similarly, conspiracy stories are just that: stories. Currently, Americans have a taste for stories in which small, but powerful groups of bad actors behind the scenes manipulate and control the destiny of millions. You can see it in our art, particularly movies, and of course our politics.
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Bigfoot exists. I hired him one year when I was an office manager. Had to fire him because he never bathed, came in late, and ate all the pencils.
😃
 
JustaServant said:
This is such a non-story. It’s the opinion of ONE person, yet Drudge had it up as the title of this thread with a picture of the Pope. It gives the anti-Catholics something to salivate over.
Almost makes me miss the days of three network news broadcasts…:cool:
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Drudge had the same thing with the “gays can use condoms” fiasco, and with that little conference two years ago when a reporter asked the monsignor what proof of alien life would mean for the Church, and he tossed out a response to the effect of “well, they may need a redeemer, too, or they may be living in full friendship with God since Creation. We don’t know.” Then there was the conference to discuss the implications of alien life, which prompted the Telegraph to put together this AWFUL but funny photo:

telegraph.co.uk/science/space/6536400/The-Vatican-joins-the-search-for-alien-life.html

I suppose that raises some other interesting issues, ie, if we have alien brothers and sisters who also believe in the Risen Christ, could there be alien Saints who intercede on behalf of aliens still alive, or would they intercede also for us humans? Could an alien invoke the protection of the Blessed Mother? If these aliens are insectoid in biology and do not have, per se, blood, would they celebrate a Eucharist?

Sorry, I’m running on very little sleep.
 
BartBurk said:
My evangelical conspiracy theorist friends are going to run with this one:

reuters.com/article/2011/10/24/idUS264245887020111024

A Central World Bank sounds like exactly the thing my evangelical friends have warned me the Catholic Church would do to try and establish a One World Government. I hear this all the time on local Christian radio where “End Times” programs trumpet this as a sign of the last days.

What do my non-Catholic friends think of this announcement? Is it the establishment of the so-called Whore of Babylon worldwide?
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The first thing I would do is read the document.

zenit.org/article-33718?l=english

The next thing I would do is read the encylical referenced.

The next thing I would do is understand that what this document is saying is commentary on doing good in describing the changes that the Vatican sees. This is nothing more than the encyclicals on social justice as I see it. It is not a recommendation for rather caution on what is proceeding to proceed with care and love.

The last thing I would do is realize that there is a population out there that love fear mongering. Alex Jones in the secular world and Dispensationilsts in the Protestant world. They are gongs and clanging symbols.:eek:
 
Sufjon said:
Corn has found it’s way into the following products, aided by the fact that it is cheap to buy:

Adhesives (glues, pastes, mucilages, gums, etc.)
Aluminum
Antibiotics (penicillin)
Asbestos insulation
Aspirin
Automobiles (everything on wheels)
xxx- cylinder heads
xxx- ethanol - fuel & windshield washer fluid
xxx- spark plugs
xxx- synthetic rubber finishes
xxx- tires
Bread,
Baby food
Batteries, dry cell
Beer
Breakfast cereals
Candies
Canned vegetables
Carbonated beverages
Cheese spreads
Chewing gum
Chocolate products
Coatings on wood, paper & metal
Colour carrier in paper & textile, printing
Corn chips
Corn meal
Cosmetics
C.M.A. (calcium magnesium acetate)
Crayon and chalk
Degradable plastics
Dessert powders
Dextrose (intravenous solutions, icing sugar)
Disposable diapers
Dyes
Edible oil
Ethyl and butyl alcohol
Explosives - firecrackers
Finished leather
Flour & grits
Frozen foods
Fructose
Fuel ethanol
Gypsum wallboard
Ink for stamping prices in stores
Insecticides
ice cream
Instant coffee & tea
Insulation, fibreglass
James, jellies and preserves
Ketchup
Latex paint
Leather tanning
Licorice
Livestock feed
Malted products
Margarine
Mayonnaise
Mustard, prepared
Paper board, (corrugating, laminating, cardboard)
Paper manufacturing
Paper plates & Cups
Peanut butter
Pharmaceuticals - The Life Line of The Hospital
Potato chips
Rugs, carpets
Salad dressings
Shaving cream & lotions
Shoe polish
Soaps and cleaners
Soft drinks
Starch & glucose (over 40 types)
Syrup
Tacos, tortillas
Textiles
Toothpaste
Wallpaper
Wheat bread
Whiskey
Yogurts

This is just a partial list. And most of those things listed as ingredients on the back of products that have 26 letters in their names? Big words for corn derivatives for the most part.

A recent study at the University of California-Berkeley has found what most Americans are made of – CORN. Scientists tested a strand of hair of an average American and the carbon in that hair was 69% from corn. basically, the hair was 69% corn. When they compared it to a strand of hair of an average European – it had only a 5% level of corn. My point is that you can trace the start of the obesity epidemic in the US to the advent of corn as a main staple in the making of food products.

Your friend
Sufjon
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Obesity…Genetic, Environmental, Lifestyle…it is a very simple gospel…too much food or too little exercise…Corn has nothing to do with it.

nhlbi.nih.gov/health/health-topics/topics/obe/
Your weight is the result of many factors. These factors include environment, family history and genetics, metabolism (the way your body changes food and oxygen into energy), behavior or habits, and more. You can’t change some factors, such as family history. However, you can change other factors, such as your lifestyle habits.
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You can take steps to prevent or treat overweight or obesity. Follow a healthy eating plan and keep your calorie needs in mind. Do physical activity regularly and try to limit the amount of time that you’re inactive.
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The Gospel of life is eat the amount you need, exericise to expend the calories you eat to meet your needs. Food is fuel.

Eat corn when you feel like it.👍
 
Obesity…Genetic, Environmental, Lifestyle…it is a very simple gospel…too much food or too little exercise…Corn has nothing to do with it.
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nhlbi.nih.gov/health/health-topics/topics/obe/
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The Gospel of life is eat the amount you need, exericise to expend the calories you eat to meet your needs. Food is fuel.
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Thanks for the (name removed by moderator)ut and well thought nutritional advice. Sending me an article on the definition of obesity is something of an obfuscation in relation to the point, but whatever.
Eat corn when you feel like it.:thumbsup
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The point is that most people eat a lot more of it than they know, without knowing that they’re eating it, and it’s not very good for you. Corn is a high sugar, low nutrition crop. Most Americans are getting large quantities of it in things they don’t expect to find it in.

Your friend
Sufjon
 
True about corn…

The Wall Street Journal came out on a good explanation as to why the world economy is now where it is…it began with President Nixon getting rid of Bretton Woods standard, and then the increase of lending, credit institutions…but the decline of revenue building institutions…

There were false bubbles…or bubbles in certain areas like home lending…I don’t see how anything much can be done except let nature take its course. Life is too complex for alot of people…

Reflecting on Sacred Scriptures and its morality of moderation…and being in tune with your own limitations, and praying alot …and laughing…helps alot. People have survived for thousands of years…and have adapted.

I remember hearing my grandmother talking in the late 60’s and early 70’s about hard she worked on the farm in the 1910’s, but that she and people in those days were alot happier than those living today.

There is a magazine out called, ‘Reminisce’…and would like to get a young adult group going to talk about past ways of living daily life. My grandmother continued to use a wood stove with wood bricks. She knew how to stoke the fire and make these tall cakes, breads, cookies, rolls, cream puffs, baked meats…I stayed overnight at her house and loved the smell of the fire being started…she made me cereal, honey, milk, and then bacon and eggs with orange juice for starting school…I started out walking the street thinking my stomach would not be able to hold it in…we had snow…but she’d wash her laundry in her tub upstairs…bring it down, and hang it on the covered porch…and bring it in by the woodstove…stiff, frozen sheets, shake them with the frost coming out, let them sit, and then fold them away…smelling so fresh. She sewed, making me dresses and a winter coat.

I want the world to become more simple, more hands on and people return to being more of a community to one another.
 
KathleenGee said:
True about corn…

I remember hearing my grandmother talking in the late 60’s and early 70’s about hard she worked on the farm in the 1910’s, but that she and people in those days were alot happier than those living today.
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I think you’re right. I think they were more in touch with themselves and the world around them. Our minds are troubled by way too much stimuli these days.

Your friend
Sufjon
 
Seriously…when I have spoken a little about this past lifestyle to some young people, they were so drawn and it gave them hope.

I think alot of people want to get out of the stress and intense information and competition and get back to a more simple life where you also have time to ponder the things of God and not the economy.

I think the Vatican office was trying to point in this way as well, and not pontificate like that media had done – again.
 
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