Vatican Calls for Global Authority on Economy

[Scalia]

Thanks for proving my point. Republican/democrat first, catholic second. The pope has written about a global authority explicitly in his encyclical If you have a problem with this, maybe you should go to a tea-party church where they teach the health and wealth gospel.

Why the anger? I agree the Church is neither liberal or conservative, Republican or Democratic.

 

[GRATEFULONEjim]

I am still awaiting further clarification on what is being suggested. What I have read thus far, quite honestly still troubles me at this moment. It is something over which I must pray and discern I suppose ultimatly.

Again, bad theology aside… It seems imprudent to suggest any form of global economic regulation on the basis of abuse. With all good intentions in mind, I am forced to remind my self what the road to hell is paved with to use dramatic language.

Surely the vatican must understand that what the document is asking for is pollitically unobtainable. The West is weak (frankly), and there are rising powers in the East which would seek to take advantage of such a structure. For the time being, at least from this laymans POV it would seem there is greater security in diversity as it were. Perhaps greater, individual cooperation, but still.

At best, what I have been able to take in of the document essentially seems like a bad idea. When you take into consideration the great need for Christian solidarity, and what a document like this might do to eccumenical efforts. It just comes off as being very rash, even if it was based solidly in Church teaching.

For the record, these are all my own very imperfect and fallible opinions.

I suppose the fact that I have had a family crisis of faith with my (convert) wife who has been pushing to leave for an evangelical church hasn’t helped. Certainly that is something I could never do, surely I would burn in hell for this (it would gravely violate my contience for openers). But that said, well ugh… A greatly ill timed document for me.

Lord Jesus Christ, only Son of the Father. Have mercy on me, a sinner.

 

[BartBurk]

Why the anger? I agree the Church is neither liberal or conservative, Republican or Democratic.

No, but she sure can be stupid when she makes comments on the world economic order. She demonstrated that in this paper this body published today. A central world economic governing body would threaten everyone’s freedom. It would most likely be run by the socialist and totalitarian countries that dominate in the U.N. and would not probably allow the type of veto power the U.S. has in the U.N. to keep the U.N. in check.

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

No, but she sure can be stupid when she makes comments on the world economic order. She demonstrated that in this paper this body published today. A central world economic governing body would threaten everyone’s freedom. It would most likely be run by the socialist and totalitarian countries that dominate in the U.N. and would not probably allow the type of veto power the U.S. has in the U.N. to keep the U.N. in check.

Yes it would bring a nightmare.

 

[Julianna]

We need to get away from the “papal encyclical mentality”. It seems that every time the Vatican speaks, everyone wants to know whether it’s a papal encyclical or whether it’s an Ex Cathedra statement. We sound like kids asking, “Do I have to?” Can’t the Church ever say anything without it being Ex Cathedra or an encyclical? Have today’s Catholics forgotten that the Vatican is also a real nation, with real rights and a real voice in the world? It has as much right as the USA to express its concerns on world affairs and to make suggestions. It does not have to invoke infallibility or write an encyclical to do so. As a moral authority, it also has a right to tell people to get their act together and do something for the sake of those who are suffering.

Vatican City has a Prime Minister, a Parliament and many departments that represent it and speak for it, just as does the United States. If you observe the document, it does not attempt to preach Catholic theology. It tries to pull from some of the Holy Father’s writings; but that does not make it a theological statement per se.

However, it does not say what people are saying either. It’s not calling for a one world government. It begins by saying that there needs to be some international organization to reign in those economic institutions that are ineffective and that are doing harm. In the past, that was the function of the World Bank. The World Bank no longer seems to work. It’s suggesting that it be replaced with something else.

It is not canonizing the UN. The Vatican knows that the UN is broken. It’s been preaching to the UN for years in the hope of moving the consciences of those who work there. In fact, it’s throwing a burden on the UN. It’s calling for the UN to do what it’s supposed to do and stop playing games. The UN is supposed to bring the key players to the table and problem solve together, before the world goes to war, which is often the next step when the world economy is in crisis. No single country is going to fix this economic mess, because economy is a global issue. Countries are interdependent.

The document also suggests that the oversight of the economy eventually be turned over to the local level to protect the less developed nations from being eaten alive by the more developed ones. This world economic governing body is a short-term project, not a permanent one.

The document also points to some truths as to why we’re in this crisis: greed, dishonesty, mismanagement and a few other things. It just uses fancier words than I do. For the naysayers that are seeing this as an excuse to leave the Catholic Church, one has to ask whether they understand the difference between Vatican City State and the Holy See. They may be in the same city, but are not the same thing. When the Holy See speaks through the state that is Vatican City, it’s speaking as another nation. It’s statements are proposals, not moral mandates. They deserve the same attention and respect as those made by the USA, UK, Japan or any other nation.

I’m not an economist. I don’t know if any of these proposals would work. I do know one thing. No one seems to be doing anything that works. We can consider these proposals or come up with better ones. But to take up time and energy wondering why the Church says this or that is not going to solve anything. The Vatican is not interested in our opinion about its manner of proceeding. Like any sovereign nation, how it proceeds is its business. The Church wants to hear solutions from us. Pope Benedict made it very clear, just this week, that the diplomatic mission of the Church from now going forward is to be the voice of the voiceless and the helpless. The Parliament of Vatican City and its departments are going to come up with some proposals to rescue the helpless.

They would probably be very happy if 2 billion Catholics came up with a better proposal that is guaranteed to work.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

Thank you JR for explaining it well. Much appreciated

 

[Brendan]

I do not know why they would even attempt to entrust a world bank or an overseer of any economy much less the world, it is not like they have proven themselves trustworthy. Furthermore, they are mostly secular.

Exactly, if it was the Vatican itself that was running it, I might give the concept a second look. But since that is almost certainly NOT going to be the case, I fail to see any spiritual value in the what a world bank would actually mean under a secular power.

 

[Julianna]

No, but she sure can be stupid when she makes comments on the world economic order. She demonstrated that in this paper this body published today. A central world economic governing body would threaten everyone’s freedom. It would most likely be run by the socialist and totalitarian countries that dominate in the U.N. and would not probably allow the type of veto power the U.S. has in the U.N. to keep the U.N. in check.

Whoa, wait, hold the phone here… I thought everything that ever came out of the Vatican was not only correct, but the truth and we must follow it.

{disclaimer, unless the extreme right disagrees, then “She”, (aka The Church) can be stupid confused when “She” makes comments on the world economic order.}

Thanks for er…uh… clearing that up. I think…

 

[BartBurk]

Yes it would bring a nightmare.

And I don’t know how I justify this pronouncement to my Mormon family or my Protestant friends. We can tell them it is not binding on Catholics until we are blue in the face, but it doesn’t change the fact they came out with an idiotic statement. I wonder what type of taxes a world central bank could impose on individual countries?

 

[BartBurk]

Exactly, if it was the Vatican itself that was running it, I might give the concept a second look. But since that is almost certainly NOT going to be the case, I fail to see any spiritual value in the what a world bank would actually mean under a secular power.

The Vatican doesn’t have a very strong track record when it comes to running banks.

 

[A_Catholic]

No, but she sure can be stupid when she makes comments on the world economic order. She demonstrated that in this paper this body published today. A central world economic governing body would threaten everyone’s freedom. It would most likely be run by the socialist and totalitarian countries that dominate in the U.N. and would not probably allow the type of veto power the U.S. has in the U.N. to keep the U.N. in check.

When you say the “Church” can be stupid, what exactly do you mean by “Church?” I personally don’t think this document is about stupidity. I think this document was very deliberately put out, with no (name removed by moderator)ut from the Pope, by a group of people who have infiltrated the Vatican. The devil is very busy and the world has made him very powerful. Something like this could not have been put out by a group of idealistic, naive men who don’t know the ways of the world. You don’t get to positions in the Vatican by being idealistic and naive.

We have been warned about this happening time after time in many different ways. Those who think this is no big deal are living in a dream world. I can understand not wanting to face it. I hate thinking about what this is really about. I don’t want to believe it’s possible. But we are on the edge of a nightmare, I’m afraid.

 

[BartBurk]

When you say the “Church” can be stupid, what exactly do you mean by “Church?” I personally don’t think this document is about stupidity. I think this document was very deliberately put out, with no (name removed by moderator)ut from the Pope, by a group of people who have infiltrated the Vatican. The devil is very busy and the world has made him very powerful. Something like this could not have been put out by a group of idealistic, naive men who don’t know the ways of the world. You don’t get to positions in the Vatican by being idealistic and naive.

We have been warned about this happening time after time in many different ways. Those of who think this is no big deal are living in a dream world. I can understand not wanting to face it. I hate thinking about what this is really about. I don’t want to believe it’s possible. But we are on the edge of a nightmare, I’m afraid.

I was giving them the benefit of the doubt by calling it a stupid document. If the document is something the Catholic leadership actually is trying to implement then it is wicked.

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

I don’t understand the need for this document, when every “all the power in one place” scheme (nazism, socialism, communism, and even the UN) has failed time and again.
We are already fighting the forces of the Dark One at the UN re: abortion, same sex marriage. Do we really want to add economics to the mix there?

I know that it has been pointed out that the UN was not meant. That doesn’t make this idea better, it makes it worse. As much as I really don’t care for the UN, I would care even less for a smaller group of “world economy managers”.

 

[Pork_Roll]

You people crack me up. When the church teaches something that challenges your preconceived notions on how best to run the economy, you assume the world is comming to end. Here’s some advice: turn glen beck and fox news off and read some of the encyclicals on social teaching of the church, you might learn something.

 

[_Abyssinia]

When you say the “Church” can be stupid, what exactly do you mean by “Church?” I personally don’t think this document is about stupidity. I think this document was very deliberately put out, with no (name removed by moderator)ut from the Pope, by a group of people who have infiltrated the Vatican. The devil is very busy and the world has made him very powerful. Something like this could not have been put out by a group of idealistic, naive men who don’t know the ways of the world. You don’t get to positions in the Vatican by being idealistic and naive.

We have been warned about this happening time after time in many different ways. Those who think this is no big deal are living in a dream world. I can understand not wanting to face it. I hate thinking about what this is really about. I don’t want to believe it’s possible. But we are on the edge of a nightmare, I’m afraid.

What do you mean ‘a group?’ The document was authored by Cardinal Peter Turkson and Mario Toso. And since I do not believe it is official Church teaching you are free to disagree with it.

 

[Julianna]

When you say the “Church” can be stupid, what exactly do you mean by “Church?” I personally don’t think this document is about stupidity. I think this document was very deliberately put out, with no (name removed by moderator)ut from the Pope, by a group of people who have infiltrated the Vatican. The devil is very busy and the world has made him very powerful. Something like this could not have been put out by a group of idealistic, naive men who don’t know the ways of the world. You don’t get to positions in the Vatican by being idealistic and naive.

We have been warned about this happening time after time in many different ways. Those who think this is no big deal are living in a dream world. I can understand not wanting to face it. I hate thinking about what this is really about. I don’t want to believe it’s possible. But we are on the edge of a nightmare, I’m afraid.

I don’t give “evil” the creedance that you do. Pure paranoia is at work here, nothing else. It’s a knee jerk reaction well overdue for the right leaning religious folks. JR and Jharek explained it well. Yes, sometimes you have to wait and see. And I could give two hoots what Pat Robertson or any other tevangelical “end of the world conspiracy theorists” say about the Catholic Church. Why should any of you care? Oh yea of little faith. Do you trust the Church on what it puts forth? Every post I have ever read on the Traditional lean says YES< with every power of their being. Now, with this coming out from a Cardinal in Vat City, suddenly we want to see the wounds, to prove it’s real or not real?

 

[BartBurk]

What do you mean ‘The Vatican?’ The document was authored by Cardinal Peter Turkson and Mario Toso. And since I do not believe it is official Church teaching you are free to disagree with it.

Unfortunately, the document plays into the evangelical stereotype of the Whore of Babylon with the Catholic Church abetting a One World Government. It was ill-advised to say the least.

 

[A_Catholic]

I was giving them the benefit of the doubt by calling it a stupid document. If the document is something the Catholic leadership actually is trying to implement then it is wicked.

I understand exactly where you are coming from, and I wish I could call it just “stupid.” But these are not stupid men behind the document, unfortunately. Why would the Catholic Church ever be involved in calling for a global anything, especially when there are such wicked men in high places, men who call for “population control” and acceptance of homosexuality, men who denounce the Catholic Church? We are making a pact with the devil.

 

[Julianna]

:clapping:

You people crack me up. When the church teaches something that challenges your preconceived notions on how best to run the economy, you assume the world is comming to end. Here’s some advice: turn glen beck and fox news off and read some of the encyclicals on social teaching of the church, you might learn something.

:clapping::clapping::tiphat::tiphat:

 

[Julianna]

Unfortunately, the document plays into the evangelical stereotype of the Whore of Babylon with the Catholic Church abetting a One World Government. It was ill-advised to say the least.

If you are grounded in your faith, what do you care what other’s think?

 

[_Abyssinia]

Unfortunately, the document plays into the evangelical stereotype of the Whore of Babylon with the Catholic Church abetting a One World Government. It was ill-advised to say the least.

But the anti Catholic conspiracy theorists who stereotyped the Catholic Church did so before this document was authored.

I agree with you that the two Cardinals who authored the document should of used different language perhaps, they should know the anti Catholicism that exists and the hatred for the Catholic Church in certain conspiracy theories.