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Bubba_Switzler
Guest
This begs what is, to me, the crucial question: is a super-state the right vehicle for creating a global family? I think that is a very dangerous path to follow and would, as Benedict rightly fears, close the door to a Christian world. For far too many the secular state, and political activity generally, has become an alternative to religion.
Some say that free market ideals idolize the economy or money. But I think it’s far more accurate to say that the concept of a super-state is an idolization of politics and legal process.
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domandcarols
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donsnow
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Good afternoon, Bubba,
I agree because I think your post is right on. The late 20th century and early 21st century face offs between our Church and states’ authority is a serious matter; not to mention extremists pushing both a violent and a legal jihad for a global Caliphate.
Back to the OP, I can’t help but suspect the professor of using the opportunity provided by his presence on this council to forward his socialist agenda. So that, again, the Church is attacked from within.
God loves you,
Don
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_Abyssinia
Guest
Michael Voris of Real Catholic TV comments on the document:
youtube.com/watch?v=bx5Y6H2KCAY&feature=feedu
youtube.com/watch?v=bx5Y6H2KCAY&feature=feedu
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donsnow
Guest
Good morning, Abyssinia,
That’s a good video. I just hope lots of ordinary Catholics listen to him.
God loves you,
Don
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Bubba_Switzler
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donsnow
Guest
Good afternoon, all,
I wish the progressive Catholics would recognize that their leanings are more like the traits of some of the Sadducees and Pharisees, who were skeptical of Jesus Christ and His teachings during His stay on Earth. Which is to say, these progressives of our day are merely regressing the Church to the skeptics and doubters of the infant Church.
God loves all of you, lurkers, too,
Don
I wish the progressive Catholics would recognize that their leanings are more like the traits of some of the Sadducees and Pharisees, who were skeptical of Jesus Christ and His teachings during His stay on Earth. Which is to say, these progressives of our day are merely regressing the Church to the skeptics and doubters of the infant Church.
God loves all of you, lurkers, too,
Don
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Pork_Roll
Guest
Here’s the critical point. As been quoted in this thread numerous times, the papal encyclical Caritas in Veritate explicitly calls for such a body and even quotes Blessed John XXIII who calls for the same thing. I personally don’t have a stake in the issue, however if one criticizes what this vatican statement contains, one must also criticize some of the ideas in caritas in veritate. If so, then many more things in papal and vatican ii documents outside of faith and morals are up to debate.
This begs the question, why doesn’t the church stay out of technical answers then and stick to philosophical guidelines.
This begs the question, why doesn’t the church stay out of technical answers then and stick to philosophical guidelines.
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Bubba_Switzler
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Either the document “calls for the same thing”, and is therefore redundant, or it calls for something more specific and/or different, and is perhaps innovative but not authoritative.
(Benedict hedged his own suggestions in ways that this document did not. In theory at least, a “reformed” Planned Parenthood could provide instruction in Catholic marital catechism and a “reformed” Hell’s Angels could run daycare centers.)
I suggested early on that the vatican could address issues where morality and technicality are intertwined in partnership with people who are more technically proficient. It turns out that they did invite at least one such person to the drafting of this document, Professor Leonardo Becchetti who is, apparently, well known for his socialist leanings and who, it is now suspected, was probably responsible for much of the recommendations. I think a broader representation of economics and financially competent Catholics would have been a better arrangement…assuming that the outcome had not been pre-decided.
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1Samuel8
Guest
The Church wants a different government to solve the problems created by government?!?
One thing that troubles me – among a few other things – about this recommendation is that it demonstrates a dangerous ignorance in the field of economics and sociology.
I recommend that men of the cloth should study economics before they talk about economics. They should start with the von Mises institute. Otherwise, what they are doing with such absurd recommendations is going back to the days of flat-earth terra-centric science.
The economic problems we currently face are caused by government legal tender laws, taxation and the printing of money ALL DONE BY GOVERNMENT.
To strike the root of the economic crisis, the Church must condemn state central banking and fractional reserve banking. Otherwise, the Church will only contribute to the problem by giving evil greedy money-grabbers more potential for abuse.
One thing that troubles me – among a few other things – about this recommendation is that it demonstrates a dangerous ignorance in the field of economics and sociology.
I recommend that men of the cloth should study economics before they talk about economics. They should start with the von Mises institute. Otherwise, what they are doing with such absurd recommendations is going back to the days of flat-earth terra-centric science.
The economic problems we currently face are caused by government legal tender laws, taxation and the printing of money ALL DONE BY GOVERNMENT.
To strike the root of the economic crisis, the Church must condemn state central banking and fractional reserve banking. Otherwise, the Church will only contribute to the problem by giving evil greedy money-grabbers more potential for abuse.
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Swiss_Guy
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Right. All the document is calling for is a UN that has morality and helps the world more.
To your question: Why should it stay out? We need people (Vatican, bishops, etc) to give us insight as to what is best for the world and the Catholic faith. And us as well.
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J_Rock
Guest
Only in the past few years have my family and I come to understand the NWO and the utter and complete evil that it truly is. In our search for information, it became more and more apparent that the Vatican has been in the hands of NWO proponents for some decades now; this latest announcement made that inescapably clear and served as an omen to us that moving to a Traditionalist parish was the correct choice.
Our Blessed Mother Herself said at La Salette that the Church would be in eclipse. I, myself, see a Church eclipsed by the great and extremely powerful evil that is the NWO, and I cannot allow myself to embrace such a thing. A Catholic must be obedient to the Vatican as long as it is not harming the faith, correct?
“It is written (Acts 5:29): ‘We ought to obey God rather than men.’ Now sometimes the things commanded by a superior are against God. Therefore superiors are not to be obeyed in all things.”
Our Blessed Mother Herself said at La Salette that the Church would be in eclipse. I, myself, see a Church eclipsed by the great and extremely powerful evil that is the NWO, and I cannot allow myself to embrace such a thing. A Catholic must be obedient to the Vatican as long as it is not harming the faith, correct?
“It is written (Acts 5:29): ‘We ought to obey God rather than men.’ Now sometimes the things commanded by a superior are against God. Therefore superiors are not to be obeyed in all things.”
- St. Thomas Aquinas (Summa Theoligica II II Q. 104)
The numbers have spoken for us–vocations have been in painful decline since Vatican II. In addition to that decline, and probably serving as the catalyst of it, there are also the massive changes in liturgy that came about as part of Vatican II, wildly changing the dogma of a Church almost two thousand years old.
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donsnow
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Good morning, I Samuel18,
From the little I’ve read and heard about on Economics, I think you’re right.
I heartily agree with your closing exhortation.
God loves you,
Don
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OriginalJS
Guest
Take a hard look at what has gone on in the Eurozone and most people will conclude that nationalism and self-protection financially are still necessary. Otherwise the no-goodniks will just eat up everything and leave the workers to bail themselves out. Greece is the classic example. A small country of about 11 million pillaged banks and now doesn’t want to do whatever is necessary to repay their debts. As a result finances in the US and Europe are in disarray. If the beancounters in Brussels couldn’t handle the matters before them, why would any other bunch of bureaucrats do any better?
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ANNE_2
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BONUM SANE by Pope Benedict XV.
" The advent of a Universal Republic, which is longed for by all the worst elements of disorder, and confidently expected by them, is an idea which is now ripe for execution.
From this republic, based on the principles of absolute equality of men and community of possessions, would be banished all national distinctions,
nor in it would the authority of the father over his children, or of the public power over the citizens , or of God over human society, be any longer acknowledged.
If these ideas are put into practice, there will inevitably follow a reign of unheard-of terror. "-- Pope Benedict **XV ** “Bonum Sane”
He who controls the gold, rules - including a one world economic authority.
" The advent of a Universal Republic, which is longed for by all the worst elements of disorder, and confidently expected by them, is an idea which is now ripe for execution.
From this republic, based on the principles of absolute equality of men and community of possessions, would be banished all national distinctions,
nor in it would the authority of the father over his children, or of the public power over the citizens , or of God over human society, be any longer acknowledged.
If these ideas are put into practice, there will inevitably follow a reign of unheard-of terror. "-- Pope Benedict **XV ** “Bonum Sane”
He who controls the gold, rules - including a one world economic authority.
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Tenofovir
Guest
Eurozone is a good thing too. It allowed countries like Germany to sell their products and so create employment for many, very expensive workers. Secondly, everyone knew what was going on with Greece, Spain, Portugal and Italy. The Germans went ahead anyway.
The finances in the USA are not in a disarray because of the Eurozone crisis. They’re in disarray because of local problems. People ‘create’ wealth not by producing goods or services but by selling debt, short selling shares, insider trading etc. You’re also buying too many Chinese and Chinese made products in the USA, while China refuses to reciprocate and buy more of your products. You’re outsourcing to China and other cheaper places too, moving jobs offshore.
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ANNE_2
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You have a good handle on the bad policies of the USA regarding job loss, causing loss of taxable income from both business and individuals.
Our problem is also government over-spending, government waste, too many government employees, etc.
The USA is now over $14.9 TRILLION in debt.
This by no means indicates most Americans want other Nations throughout the world to pay our debts, nor should we pay theirs. We just have to get rid of a bad President in the next election.
Don’t look to us for help now, unfortunately we have our own troubles and it will take years for us to get back on track.
CCC -** " **2411 Contracts are subject to commutative justice which regulates exchanges between persons and between institutions in accordance with a strict respect for their rights. Commutative justice obliges strictly;
it requires safeguarding property rights, paying debts, and fulfilling obligations freely contracted.
Without commutative justice, no other form of justice is possible.
One distinguishes commutative justice from legal justice which concerns what the citizen owes in fairness to the community, and from distributive justice which regulates what the community owes its citizens in proportion to their contributions and needs. "
See the Quote from Pope Benedict XV in this thread.
A one world economic authority is not acceptable, and will teach no one to pay attention to their own spending habits.
The Catholic Church is not an expert in economics or politics and should not be involved.
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donsnow
Guest
Good evening, Tenofovir,
You’re certainly entitled to your opinion. However, the things you commend to us in your opinion of how wealth is developed are what caused us our troubles here, and some of them are rightfully illegal, here.
Dear citizen, Americans can not and should not live as Europeans. My ancestors left the UK a long time ago and one of them left France. All of them to get away from how things were done in their native countries. And, in my opinion, to this day, the way things are done in Europe have no business in a free America.
I have vexed family and friends because I live with my liberty more important than my safety; nevertheless, I have trusted God Most High the Holy Trinity to protect me as I do my tiny bit for His kingdom, and He has faithfully done so.
I just wish my family and friends would trust God more.
God loves you,
Don
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acioffi
Guest
It does indeed seem to me that there are a lot of communistic tendancies/ideas coming from Vatican officials. Just as Our Lady of Fatima warned, “Russia will spread her errors” even to the Church it seems. But why are people suprised? It is obvious there are many freemasons in the Church and Vatican. And freemasonry and communism are very very similar.
The idea that world peace can come via dialogue is a disgusting one. That may sound harsh but it is the best way to put it, if we consider that Heaven’s plan for peace has been ignored and dare i say, silenced. Heaven’s plan for peace was simply to consecrate Russia and we couldnt even manage that. We thought we knew better just as Adam and Eve thought they knew better.
People who say the consecration has happened are literally bound to believe that we are living in a time of peace.
Also, the prayer in 1984 (march 25th) by JP2, which most catholics say is when Russia was consecrated, is most deffinatey not the accomplishment of the consecration and even JP2 said so himself (Russia was not even mentioned!).
Find out what happened here:
“On December 8th, 1983, Pope John Paul II wrote to all the bishops of the world, asking them to join in with him on March 25, 1984, in consecrating the world to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. He included with his letter his prepared text of consecration. On March 25, 1984, the Pope, making the consecration before the statue of Our Lady of Fatima, departed from his prepared text to add the words highlighted above and translated below. As you can see they were reported in L’Osservatore Romano. The words he added at this point indicate clearly, that the Pope knew then that the consecration of the world done that day did not fulfill the requests of Our Lady of Fatima. After performing the consecration of the world proper, a few paragraphs above, the Pope added the highlighted words which translate: “Enlighten especially the peoples of which You Yourself are awaiting our consecration and confiding.” This clearly shows he knows Our Lady is awaiting the Pope and bishops to consecrate certain peoples to Her, that is the peoples of Russia.”
For a picture of the actual page of the newspaper artice, which shows JP2 did not regard his prayer as the consecration, visit this webpage:
devilsfinalbattle.com/appendix2.htm
Only the Rosary can save us now (and the consecration of Russia). It is already late.
Immaculate Heart of Mary be my salvation
JMJ
The idea that world peace can come via dialogue is a disgusting one. That may sound harsh but it is the best way to put it, if we consider that Heaven’s plan for peace has been ignored and dare i say, silenced. Heaven’s plan for peace was simply to consecrate Russia and we couldnt even manage that. We thought we knew better just as Adam and Eve thought they knew better.
People who say the consecration has happened are literally bound to believe that we are living in a time of peace.
Also, the prayer in 1984 (march 25th) by JP2, which most catholics say is when Russia was consecrated, is most deffinatey not the accomplishment of the consecration and even JP2 said so himself (Russia was not even mentioned!).
Find out what happened here:
“On December 8th, 1983, Pope John Paul II wrote to all the bishops of the world, asking them to join in with him on March 25, 1984, in consecrating the world to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. He included with his letter his prepared text of consecration. On March 25, 1984, the Pope, making the consecration before the statue of Our Lady of Fatima, departed from his prepared text to add the words highlighted above and translated below. As you can see they were reported in L’Osservatore Romano. The words he added at this point indicate clearly, that the Pope knew then that the consecration of the world done that day did not fulfill the requests of Our Lady of Fatima. After performing the consecration of the world proper, a few paragraphs above, the Pope added the highlighted words which translate: “Enlighten especially the peoples of which You Yourself are awaiting our consecration and confiding.” This clearly shows he knows Our Lady is awaiting the Pope and bishops to consecrate certain peoples to Her, that is the peoples of Russia.”
For a picture of the actual page of the newspaper artice, which shows JP2 did not regard his prayer as the consecration, visit this webpage:
devilsfinalbattle.com/appendix2.htm
Only the Rosary can save us now (and the consecration of Russia). It is already late.
Immaculate Heart of Mary be my salvation
JMJ
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