Vatican calls Muhammad cartoon "blasphemous"

[CHESTERTONRULES]

You are right! A human cannot be God as God may not be human.

Are you saying God is incapable of taking human form?

 

[Peter_J]

You are right!

Well thank you.

A human cannot be God as God may not be human.

So I guess it’s a good thing that we believe in freedom of speech – that is to say, if we didn’t, then you could be in a lot of trouble for saying that.

 

[Rohzek]

If Muslims denigrate(Muslims never do!) Jesus so will you tolerant toward and pray for them?

Killing may be applicable during war and self defending and it is false totaly in other manner. So the punish of the painting must not be killing. We must condemn it.

But insulting a faith is not a right. One’s freedom finish in where the other’s freedom starts. When some insult other’s right, honour, moral pesrsonality etc then the one being insulted has justice of general damages.

So insulting Islam is not a right. You can criticise but insulting is not a right. Perhaps painting is a right and usual for non-Muslim but for Islam it is a fault. There are many things which is not a crime at all but in your country may those be considered as crime. So I cannot say it is not a crime for me if that issue concern both sides!

If you could please do so, could you perhaps explain how you would distinguish criticism from insults? I personally do not think the line between the two to be clear, but I am curious as to how you are able to do so.

 

[SteveVH]

If Muslims denigrate(Muslims never do!) Jesus so will you tolerant toward and pray for them?

I will tell them that what they are doing is very wrong. And then I will defend their right to say what they wish to say. But I won’t shoot them. And yes, I may very well pray for them.

Killing may be applicable during war and self defending and it is false totaly in other manner. So the punish of the painting must not be killing. We must condemn it.

But insulting a faith is not a right. One’s freedom finish in where the other’s freedom starts.

Agreed.

When some insult other’s right, honour, moral pesrsonality etc then the one being insulted has justice of general damages.

What does that mean?

So insulting Islam is not a right. You can criticise but insulting is not a right.

Free speech is a right in the United States, even if it is insulting. It may be morally wrong, but people have a right to be morally wrong in this country. You can’t kill them because you were offended. That is the height of immorality.

Perhaps painting is a right and usual for non-Muslim but for Islam it is a fault. There are many things which is not a crime at all but in your country may those be considered as crime. So I cannot say it is not a crime for me if that issue concern both sides!

Sorry, I don’t understand.

Peace.

Steve

 

[eddie_too]

Jesus directed us to love one another as He has loved us. that did not stop Him from so offending the religious authorities of His own faith to the extent that they demanded the Romans murder Him.

on the other hand, before offending someone intentionally, we should at least have reason to believe that giving the offense will work toward the salvation of souls.

none of us have the wisdom and understanding that Jesus has, that should lead us to tread very carefully and cautiously when antagonizing those who disagree with us.

 

[SAVINGRACE]

Jesus directed us to love one another as He has loved us. that did not stop Him from so offending the religious authorities of His own faith to the extent that they demanded the Romans murder Him.

on the other hand, before offending someone intentionally, we should at least have reason to believe that giving the offense will work toward the salvation of souls.

none of us have the wisdom and understanding that Jesus has, that should lead us to tread very carefully and cautiously when antagonizing those who disagree with us.

 

[Matthew_Light]

I don’t think we Christians would refer to Jesus as a prophet…

Hmmm.

"But what went you out to see? a prophet? yea I tell you, and more than a prophet. " - Matthew 11:9

So, it seems Jesus Himself was agreeing that He was a prophet, as well as being more than a prophet.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

Hmmm.

"But what went you out to see? a prophet? yea I tell you, and more than a prophet. " - Matthew 11:9

So, it seems Jesus Himself was agreeing that He was a prophet, as well as being more than a prophet.

That is not what he is saying.

Jesus is God, not a prophet.

John 8:58
“Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”

John 1
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning. 3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

Gen 1:26
Then God said, "Let **us **make mankind in our image, in our likeness

John 14:9
Jesus answered: "Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

 

[Peter_J]

Hmmm.

"But what went you out to see? a prophet? yea I tell you, and more than a prophet. " - Matthew 11:9

So, it seems Jesus Himself was agreeing that He was a prophet, as well as being more than a prophet.

How does saying that John was a prophet imply that Jesus is one?

 

[josie_L]

I would prefer that Catholic newspapers focus more on the merciless targeting, murder and raping of middle east christians, Catholics or otherwise.

As for Muhammed cartoons I am of the view that if you are going to go there then please be prepared for the consequences. Yes the violent backlash is unwarranted, illegal and outrageous but come on, it’s not exactly a surprise reaction. Cartoonists and artists need to use their common sense as well, carefully consider the repercussions for them and their loved ones.

They are right it is pouring fuel on the fire. Not sure what is accomplished by the pictures/cartoons other than a possible body count and no real dialogue or communication.

I wouldn’t call it blasphemous. It is considered blasphemy for Muslims but not for non-muslims.

For Catholics blasphemy is speaking against God in a contemptuous, scornful, or abusive manner or committed by thought, word, or action.

Mohammed is not God, therefore it is not blasphemous for a Catholic to be contemptuous or scornful of Mohammed. It may be ill-advised and a venial sin but it is not blasphemy.

This is exactly how I feel.

 

[Joyful_Song]

If Muslims denigrate(Muslims never do!) Jesus so will you tolerant toward and pray for them?

Killing may be applicable during war and self defending and it is false totaly in other manner. So the punish of the painting must not be killing. We must condemn it.

But insulting a faith is not a right. One’s freedom finish in where the other’s freedom starts. When some insult other’s right, honour, moral personality etc then the one being insulted has justice of general damages.

So insulting Islam is not a right. You can criticise but insulting is not a right. Perhaps painting is a right and usual for non-Muslim but for Islam it is a fault. There are many things which is not a crime at all but in your country may those be considered as crime. So I cannot say it is not a crime for me if that issue concern both sides!

This is not a matter of “insulting a faith”. It’s a matter of speaking out for the truth that Islam is wrong and unfounded. It’s time for all to move beyond being politically correct and voice the truth. Islam is an unfounded, contradictory religion which has a basis for violence, untruths, fear mongering, violence against women, and violence against anyone who has the courage to say so.
Jesus is calling all of us. Muslims who are visiting here are being called too. Jesus loves us.

The Apostle’s Creed states the truth:
I believe in God, the Father Almighty, Creator of heaven and earth; and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord: Who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary; suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died and was buried. He descended into hell; the third day He rose again from the dead; He ascended into heaven, is seated at the right hand of God the Father Almighty; from thence He shall come to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Catholic Church, the communion of Saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting. Amen.

 

[adrift]

Hmmm.

"But what went you out to see? a prophet? yea I tell you, and more than a prophet. " - Matthew 11:9

So, it seems Jesus Himself was agreeing that He was a prophet, as well as being more than a prophet.

How does saying that John was a prophet imply that Jesus is one?

Matthew it is obvious that you have not understood who Jesus was speaking about.

As they were going off, Jesus began to speak to the crowds about John, "What did you go out to the desert to see? A reed swayed by the wind?

8

Then what did you go out to see? Someone dressed in fine clothing? Those who wear fine clothing are in royal palaces.

9

Then why did you go out? To see a prophet? 7 Yes, I tell you, and more than a prophet.

Jesus was not speaking of Himself but of John as it is stated in verse 7.

 

[Servant19]

If you could please do so, could you perhaps explain how you would distinguish criticism from insults? I personally do not think the line between the two to be clear, but I am curious as to how you are able to do so.

Criticism: “personally, I fail to logically and reasonably see how Muhammad could be a prophet”

Insult: “Muhammad is a voice of Satan”

.

 

[hasantas]

If you could please do so, could you perhaps explain how you would distinguish criticism from insults? I personally do not think the line between the two to be clear, but I am curious as to how you are able to do so.

Painting prophet Muhammed is banned in Islam! Is that not enough clear? And if you reject Muhammed you should do that by evidences but not through insulting.

 

[adrift]

Painting prophet Muhammed is banned in Islam! Is that not enough clear? And if you reject Muhammed you should do that by evidences but not through insulting.

You failed to address the question

If you could please do so, could you perhaps explain how you would distinguish criticism from insults? I personally do not think the line between the two to be clear, but I am curious as to how you are able to do so.

It seems that you view criticism of Muhammad as an insult but you do not use the same criteria for Christians.
Painting Muhammad may be banned in Islam but not everyone is Islamic. It Is not wrong in my faith to portray him. All that is being asked of you is to define what is an insult and how does it differ from criticism?

 

[SAVINGRACE]

Criticism: “personally, I fail to logically and reasonably see how Muhammad could be a prophet”

Insult: “Muhammad is a voice of Satan”

.

 

[hasantas]

This is not a matter of “insulting a faith”. It’s a matter of speaking out for the truth that Islam is wrong and unfounded. It’s time for all to move beyond being politically correct and voice the truth. Islam is an unfounded, contradictory religion which has a basis for violence, untruths, fear mongering, violence against women, and violence against anyone who has the courage to say so.
Jesus is calling all of us. Muslims who are visiting here are being called too. Jesus loves us.

The Apostle’s Creed states the truth:
I believe in God, the Father Almighty, Creator of heaven and earth; and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord: Who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary; suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died and was buried. He descended into hell; the third day He rose again from the dead; He ascended into heaven, is seated at the right hand of God the Father Almighty; from thence He shall come to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Catholic Church, the communion of Saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting. Amen.

If Islam is wrong so that there is no any true religion on the world. Because Islam is founded on unaltered revelation. But Christianity is founded on fabricated revelation and emerged from mysteries and experiences of people. They claim to God (Holy Spirit) lead them which is very weak assert. Because neither Holy Spirit is God nor God lead directly but through prophets.

So which religion is unfounded?

You say Jesus ascended into Heaven. Right. If Jesus was God so there should not be any boast to say that because God created Heavens. God get not into matter. But God create matter. God do not create matter and later settle into it. God is infinite and bound to non matter and time. I can count many contradictions.

So which religion is contradictory?

Which religion launched crusades and violences?

Which religion claim that "woman has no soul?

Which religion gave woman all rights and proptect she from obscenity?

If Jesus were alive He would love Muslims very much.

 

[hasantas]

You failed to address the question

It seems that you view criticism of Muhammad as an insult but you do not use the same criteria for Christians.
Painting Muhammad may be banned in Islam but not everyone is Islamic. It Is not wrong in my faith to portray him. All that is being asked of you is to define what is an insult and how does it differ from criticism?

You can portray anyone who you wish but I say it is forbidden to portray Muhammed in any way and you ignore that.You can commit any crime if you ignore. If you respect Islam you would not do that.

 

[graciew]

If Jesus were alive He would love Muslims very much.

He is alive and He loves us all.
Would /Do you love Him?

 

[TruthBearer]

If Islam is wrong so that there is no any true religion on the world. Because Islam is founded on unaltered revelation. But Christianity is founded on fabricated revelation and emerged from mysteries and experiences of people. They claim to God (Holy Spirit) lead them which is very weak assert. Because neither Holy Spirit is God nor God lead directly but through prophets.

So which religion is unfounded?

.

I defended the Muslims earlier in a different thread, so I am not anti-Muslim. But at the same time, it is necessary to be fair. There is nothing in the 4 Gospels, in the present Bible, that I’m aware of that contradicts the Quran. In my opinion, the four Gospels are pretty like hadiths. Are the Gospels 100% accurate? No, but neither are the 2 most authentic hadith collections Bukhari and Muslim 100% accurate. If there are reasons for you to doubt the Gospels, there is reasons for me to doubt Bukhari and Muslim. Jesus did not leave a revelation like the Quran or the Torah. But rather Jesus left the Holy Spirit (or properly stated, he encouraged his followers to access God directly through the Holy Spirit.)

It is also necessary that you as a Muslim that, just because there is similar terminology doesn’t mean, it is exactly the same. Holy Spirit, for example. Based on my research, it doesn’t appear that Holy Spirit in Christianity is the same thing as Holy Spirit in Islam. Same title, but represent two different things.

The Holy Spirit in Islam is the Angel Gabriel.
The Holy Spirit in Christianity is NOT the Angel Gabriel but rather refers to the Old Testament Sakhinah.

Thus when Christians speak of the Holy Spirit, they are referring to sakīnah, in Arabic, which is mentioned in the Quran 6 times. So the Holy Spirit in Christianity, refers to Sakinah in Islam.

Ali said about Saiknah, “Sakinah is a sweet breeze/wind, whose face is like the face of a human”. (Al Tafsir Al Qurtubi)
Mujahid mentions that “when Sakinah glanced at an enemy, they were defeated” (Tafsir al Qurtubi).

In the context of Sunni Islam, To better under Sakinah and its relation to the Holy Spirit as understood by Christians. It is necessary to understand the difference between, Wahy (Revelation) and Ilham (Inspiration). Both are from Allah (God). Wahy is for Prophets and Ilham is for non-Prophets.

Here is an explanation of the difference between Wahy and Ilham. baraka.wordpress.com/2013/05/19/119/

Perhaps this will give you a better understanding of Holy Spirit as understood by Christians.