Vatican calls Muhammad cartoon "blasphemous"

[outremer]

I find it disconcerting that the Vatican described the cartoon as “blasphemous.” Insulting, hurtful, any number of adjectives would have worked. Instead, they use blasphemous? Is the Vatican Islamic now?

Blasphemy is injurious to the eternal, ever-living LORD. Muhammed, on the other hand, was a false prophet who plagiarized multiple religions, most especially Christianity. His religion heralded centuries of death and destruction to Christian peoples, as well as people of other faiths.

The New Advent on blasphemy
newadvent.org/cathen/02595a.htm

 

[hasantas]

I defended the Muslims earlier in a different thread, so I am not anti-Muslim. But at the same time, it is necessary to be fair. There is nothing in the 4 Gospels, in the present Bible, that I’m aware of that contradicts the Quran. In my opinion, the four Gospels are pretty like hadiths. Are the Gospels 100% accurate? No, but neither are the 2 most authentic hadith collections Bukhari and Muslim 100% accurate. If there are reasons for you to doubt the Gospels, there is reasons for me to doubt Bukhari and Muslim. Jesus did not leave a revelation like the Quran or the Torah. But rather Jesus left the Holy Spirit (or properly stated, he encouraged his followers to access God directly through the Holy Spirit.)

It is also necessary that you as a Muslim that, just because there is similar terminology doesn’t mean, it is exactly the same. Holy Spirit, for example. Based on my research, it doesn’t appear that Holy Spirit in Christianity is the same thing as Holy Spirit in Islam. Same title, but represent two different things.

The Holy Spirit in Islam is the Angel Gabriel.
The Holy Spirit in Christianity is NOT the Angel Gabriel but rather refers to the Old Testament Sakhinah.

Thus when Christians speak of the Holy Spirit, they are referring to sakīnah, in Arabic, which is mentioned in the Quran 6 times. So the Holy Spirit in Christianity, refers to Sakinah in Islam.

Ali said about Saiknah, “Sakinah is a sweet breeze/wind, whose face is like the face of a human”. (Al Tafsir Al Qurtubi)
Mujahid mentions that “when Sakinah glanced at an enemy, they were defeated” (Tafsir al Qurtubi).

In the context of Sunni Islam, To better under Sakinah and its relation to the Holy Spirit as understood by Christians. It is necessary to understand the difference between, Wahy (Revelation) and Ilham (Inspiration). Both are from Allah (God). Wahy is for Prophets and Ilham is for non-Prophets.

Here is an explanation of the difference between Wahy and Ilham. baraka.wordpress.com/2013/05/19/119/

Perhaps this will give you a better understanding of Holy Spirit as understood by Christians.

Thank you. That is very useful.

Some Christians attack and reject Islam a bit in an unfair way so I retaliate which even I know is wrong. Yes it is necessary to be fair for every one!

And Hadiths are not correct % 100 so you are right. I do not reject Gospels but when Christians attack Qur’an that make us angry. They do not do in a fair manner. Sometimes they claim Satan deceived Muhammed or Muhammed compiled from previous scriptures and fabricated revelation which is very disquieting.

And Holy Spirit! Well I cannot understand exactly but what I grasp Holy Spirit is some kind of special moral revelation(Ilham) which make faith strong. If so then everybody may take Holy Spirit and it is usual. There are many kinds of these specific revelation and sometimes it is mentioned Sakinah as you stated. If Holy Spirit is that then there is no problem. But they claim Holy Spirit to be God. Holy Spirit is not God but from God.

 

[hasantas]

He is alive and He loves us all.
Would /Do you love Him?

I love all prophets.

Jesus is alive but we do not know if He is on the world!

 

[SAVINGRACE]

I find it disconcerting that** the Vatican described the cartoon as “blasphemous.” ** Insulting, hurtful, any number of adjectives would have worked. Instead, they use blasphemous? Is the Vatican Islamic now?

Blasphemy is injurious to the eternal, ever-living LORD. Muhammed, on the other hand, was a false prophet who plagiarized multiple religions, most especially Christianity. His religion heralded centuries of death and destruction to Christian peoples, as well as people of other faiths.

The New Advent on blasphemy
newadvent.org/cathen/02595a.htm

Highlighted above, previously discussed in this thread. These are the words of the editor of LOR and not necessarily the “Vatican”.

 

[philipl]

When you have conference on drawing cartoons of Mohammed and you know that Islam forbids such, you are simply trying to be uncharitable and disrespectful to Islam. There are respectful ways of discussing your differences with the teachings of Islam. But drawing a cartoon of their prophet is blasphemous in their religion, and would be analogous to someone holding a conference on how many ways are there to ridicule Catholic beliefs. .
This conference is another method that Americans and others have used to ridicule religious beliefs with which they disagree.

But according is Islam, not only is draw Muhammad against their faith, so is drawing all other prophets. What is the Popes position of the drawing of Jesus and other prophets?

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

If Islam is wrong so that there is no any true religion on the world. Because Islam is founded on unaltered revelation. But Christianity is founded on fabricated revelation and emerged from mysteries and experiences of people. They claim to God (Holy Spirit) lead them which is very weak assert. Because neither Holy Spirit is God nor God lead directly but through prophets.

So which religion is unfounded?

You say Jesus ascended into Heaven. Right. If Jesus was God so there should not be any boast to say that because God created Heavens. God get not into matter. But God create matter. God do not create matter and later settle into it. God is infinite and bound to non matter and time. I can count many contradictions.

So which religion is contradictory?

Which religion launched crusades and violences?

Which religion claim that "woman has no soul?

Which religion gave woman all rights and proptect she from obscenity?

If Jesus were alive He would love Muslims very much.

Jesus is alive and he loves all people.

Here is what Jesus said with regard to settling disputes:

Matt 18:17
If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

FYI, the Crusades were launched to protect Christians who were being robbed and slaughtered by Muslims.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

I love all prophets.

Jesus is alive but we do not know if He is on the world!

Why do you deny the words of Jesus?

 

[TruthBearer]

Why do you deny the words of Jesus?

He doesn’t deny the words of Jesus, he just doesn’t understand them the way you do.

There are two ways to understand the words of Jesus,

1. according to whatever dogma you follow, if you are Christian you will interpret them according to that belief, if you are Muslim you will interpret them to that belief, if you are Hindu according to that belief etc etc. In other words, if an apparent meaning contradicts your dogma, you bend those words toward your belief.
2. according to the apparent meaning (ie the apparent meaning that comes to you irrespective of your beliefs.)

 

[Peter_J]

Painting prophet Muhammed is banned in Islam! Is that not enough clear?

Certainly it’s clear, I would never say otherwise. But it doesn’t address the question.

From reading your recent posts, it doesn’t seem like you’re interested in having a real conversation or debate. If that’s the case, I’ll bow out.

Best,
Peter.

 

[TruthBearer]

Thank you. That is very useful.

Some Christians attack and reject Islam a bit in an unfair way so I retaliate which even I know is wrong. Yes it is necessary to be fair for every one!

That is the nature of debate.

And Hadiths are not correct % 100 so you are right. I do not reject Gospels but when Christians attack Qur’an that make us angry. They do not do in a fair manner. Sometimes they claim Satan deceived Muhammed or Muhammed compiled from previous scriptures and fabricated revelation which is very disquieting.

They don’t believe that kind of prophet will come after Jesus. Asking them to accept Muhammad ibn Abdullah as a prophet, is like asking Muslims to accept Mirza Ghulam Ahmad or Muslayma, or Bahai as a Prophet after Muhammad.

And Holy Spirit! Well I cannot understand exactly but what I grasp Holy Spirit is some kind of special moral revelation(Ilham) which make faith strong. If so then everybody may take Holy Spirit and it is usual. There are many kinds of these specific revelation and sometimes it is mentioned Sakinah as you stated. If Holy Spirit is that then there is no problem. But they claim Holy Spirit to be God. Holy Spirit is not God but from God.

Muslims and Christians have different theologies. Different ways of reasoning. Thus different conclusions.

Sunni Muslims believe the Quran is the Speech of Allah and it is uncreated, Shia Muslims believe the Quran is Speech of Allah and it is created. Different way of reasoning, thus different conclusion. A fact: Neither belief can be found directly in the Quran or Hadiths.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

He doesn’t deny the words of Jesus, he just doesn’t understand them the way you do.

There are two ways to understand the words of Jesus,

1. according to whatever dogma you follow, if you are Christian you will interpret them according to that belief, if you are Muslim you will interpret them to that belief, if you are Hindu according to that belief etc etc. In other words, if an apparent meaning contradicts your dogma, you bend those words toward your belief.
2. according to the apparent meaning (ie the apparent meaning that comes to you irrespective of your beliefs.)

Of course his dogma is responsible for this denial, which is the point. There is no question about his denying the words of Jesus, though.

For example, he denies that Jesus can forgive sins, he denies that Jesus and the Father are one, and he denies that following Jesus is the way to heaven.

 

[TruthBearer]

Of course his dogma is responsible for this denial, which is the point. There is no question about his denying the words of Jesus, though.

For example, he denies that Jesus can forgive sins, he denies that Jesus and the Father are one, and he denies that following Jesus is the way to heaven.

This can be interpreted to fit Muslim beliefs. For example:

Jesus forgives sins, he believes Jesus said it metaphorically, while its literal meaning is not intended, thus Jesus forgiving of sins is not done directly, but since Jesus has a good relationship with God, Jesus can ask God forgive people sins, and it will be forgiven. Thus there is no different in asking Jesus to forgive you or God to forgive, you will be forgiven.

When Jesus said, I and my father are one, it is again metaphorical, if you read the verses the follows, Jesus clearly called all people god, and thus one with the father. Everyone is connected to God, is not the Word in every soul (Refer to the beginning of John), did not God blow into man His spirit (this is also in the Quran). Prophets become connected to God through Wahy and non-Prophets become connected to God through ilham.

He believes he is following Jesus when Jesus said to follow the Comforter, he believes the comforter is Muhammad Ibn Abdullah.

Muslims just don’t agree with Christian dogma.

It seems to me that no matter what religion you follow, there will always be some contradictions between the said scripture and the actual dogma or belief systems. It is always said, it is because you did understand that verse properly.

 

[Joyful_Song]

God loves us all so much. The Holy Bible speaks of love and reconciliation.
I just watched a beautiful testimony by a man named Mario Joseph, who was an muslim imam and became a Catholic Christian.

I hope you are willing to listen to him tell his story of what happened to him. He was truly touched by the Holy Spirit. Then re read your koran to see that what Mario Joseph says is the Truth.

youtube.com/watch?v=WjUXd4qW9mg

 

[SyroMalankara]

It seems to me that no matter what religion you follow, there will always be some contradictions between the said scripture and the actual dogma or belief systems. It is always said, it is because you did understand that verse properly.

Good thing Christianity doesn’t follow a book but a Divine Person who gives us the Church to interpret the Scriptures properly, and not according to however we feel.

 

[JesusPeaceLove]

You can portray anyone who you wish but I say it is forbidden to portray Muhammed in any way and you ignore that.You can commit any crime if you ignore. If you respect Islam you would not do that.

Why you think the whole world must not do something just because Islam says no? sorry. Expecting people to live under rules of a religion they don’t believe is just childish. Those are the rules of your religion not mine. Asking me to obey the rules of a false religion according to my belief is not much sense. But I disagree with mocking Islam for no good reason because I think it is disrespectful to the people of islam muslims, but not because I accept your expectation that I do something just because it is said in your religion because I don’t care what your religion says. To me it is not truth like it is to you. Christianity is true!

 

[TruthBearer]

Good thing Christianity doesn’t follow a book but a Divine Person who gives us the Church to interpret the Scriptures properly, and not according to however we feel.

Christians differ on interpretations as well. Even with the Holy Spirit, Christians are divided.

Catholics trace their origins to Paul and Peter. Greek Orthodox trace their origins to Andrew. Coptic Orthodox trace their origins to Mark. Indian Orthodox trace their origins to Thomas. etc etc. Yet they are divided. And they don’t interpret everything the same, yet they claim to follow the same one Holy Spirit and Divine person.

Then you have all the protestant Christians as well, who indirectly have their origins with the Catholic church, (ie they broke away from the Catholic Church). Anglican, Lutheran, etc etc. All having the Holy Spirit and this one divine person they follow. And they don’t interpret the scriptures the same.

Etc etc.

So you don’t have a point.

 

[dronald]

This can be interpreted to fit Muslim beliefs. For example:

Jesus forgives sins, he believes Jesus said it metaphorically, while its literal meaning is not intended, thus Jesus forgiving of sins is not done directly, but since Jesus has a good relationship with God, Jesus can ask God forgive people sins, and it will be forgiven. Thus there is no different in asking Jesus to forgive you or God to forgive, you will be forgiven.

When Jesus said, I and my father are one, it is again metaphorical, if you read the verses the follows, Jesus clearly called all people god, and thus one with the father. Everyone is connected to God, is not the Word in every soul (Refer to the beginning of John), did not God blow into man His spirit (this is also in the Quran). Prophets become connected to God through Wahy and non-Prophets become connected to God through ilham.

He believes he is following Jesus when Jesus said to follow the Comforter, he believes the comforter is Muhammad Ibn Abdullah.

Muslims just don’t agree with Christian dogma.

It seems to me that no matter what religion you follow, there will always be some contradictions between the said scripture and the actual dogma or belief systems. It is always said, it is because you did understand that verse properly.

Why do people always come here to say this about Christian Scripture and ignore the whole death, resurrection, ascension of Jesus aspect that Muslims deny?

 

[TruthBearer]

Why do people always come here to say this about Christian Scripture and ignore the whole death, resurrection, ascension of Jesus aspect that Muslims deny?

Well, Muslim deny the Christian theology of Jesus’ death and resurrection, but they do believe his ascension.

 

[TruthBearer]

I understand that the Vatican wants us to act more ‘lovingly’ towards Islam, but why call a cartoon of a false prophet “Blasphemous”?

It’s not blasphemous; it’s Islam.

For hundreds of years Muhammad has been depicted in a not exactly pleasant light, many paintings referring to Dante’s inferno showing Muhammad in Hell.

Also, in the past Popes and Theologians have criticized Muhammad and Islam as evil, without hesitation. What has changed that the Vatican sees Muhammad depictions as blasphemous?

religionnews.com/2015/05/06/vatican-blasts-muhammad-cartoons-pouring-gasoline-fire/

It seems to me that the Vatican is interested in getting more converts. It is very difficult to evangelize someone with whom you don’t show respect. People won’t listen to your logic if you don’t respect them.

So I don’t think it has anything to do with being politically correct, nor is their statement intended to be a theological statement.

 

[dronald]

Well, Muslim deny Jesus’ death and resurrection, but they do believe his ascension.

Which is impossible to conclude based on the documents available.

Sure, it’s possible to re-interpret every passage of Scripture (Thomas’s “My Lord and my God”) and also claim the other part is corruption (Jesus dead on the cross, buried 3 days resurrected). But it just doesn’t make sense to me.

Then the Muslim has to fight with other ‘corruptions’ like

“who divorces his wife, except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery” - Matt 5:32

Which Muslims don’t accept, as their Qur’an permits marriage and divorce for other reasons. Or how about

Matt 5:34I say to you, Do not take an oath at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God,

35 or by the earth, for it is his footstool, or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King.

36 And do not take an oath by your head, for you cannot make one hair white or black.

37 Let what you say be simply ‘Yes’ or ‘No’; anything more than this comes from evil.

And yet, not only does Allah take oaths on everything under the sun; but Muslims are given instructions on oath taking.

The problem with using the Bible as a Muslim to prove any position is that the entire Bible is ‘corrupt’ except when it’s taken out of context to ‘prove’ an Islamic position.

There’s no sense arguing that Islam is proved from the Scriptures; it’s just plain stupid.