Vatican Calls Proposed Koran Burning `Outrageous and Grave'

[Julianna]

and here we are. i am talking about God and you are talking about money. one cannot serve two masters. we cant have everything we want. the Laws of God are more important than money, i hope you can understand this. while women are chasing money, divorce is increasing and children are being adopted by gays and lesbians which is unpleasing to God.

Oh I see. Ok. You know there is a culture that totally subscribed to what YOU percive as womens roles. Funny thing is…it is the culture that you abhor…

Planes fly everyday to the Middle East…I am sure you will take comfort that women cannot drive, work, have to cover every inch of their body, “obey” men, whether it is their husband, their father, their uncle, their brother or their son, and best of all…are not allowed to be educated…or have a thought process of their own…and are easily “disposed” of at a whim.

Have you ever seen the movie “The Stepford Wives”? You would love it.

God Bless America! Land of home, the brave and the “free”.

I am aghast that you would take up issue with the Vatican and their thoughts on this issue…as well as other issues. You are the anthesis to Catholicism for sure…Christianity to be sure.

Especially on a day like this.

 

[Julianna]

Wisdomseeker, I am a widow and the sole support of my children. I find your comments offensive and odious. Do you think my children should live in a cardboard box on the street corner because their father has passed away? Do you think they should be deprived of the advantages that MY INCOME is able to supply? Arrogant, ignorant opinions such as this disgust me no end. People like you are exactly why we have the feminist movement.

If you think I should stay at home, then I invite you to support us financially so I can do so. Make sure you have a lot in ink in your pen when you go to write out that check–I’m a statistical programmer and you’re going to have to write a pretty big number.

Or are you nothing but hot air?

Miz

Exactly!! :clapping::tiphat:

and

I myself have never been able to find out precisely what feminism is: I only know that people call me a feminist whenever I express sentiments that differnciate me from a doormat.

 

[Miserys_Fence]

Oh I see. Ok. You know there is a culture that totally subscribed to what YOU percive as womens roles. Funny thing is…it is the culture that you abhor…

Planes fly everyday to the Middle East…I am sure you will take comfort that women cannot drive, work, have to cover every inch of their body, “obey” men, whether it is their husband, their father, their uncle, their brother or their son, and best of all…are not allowed to be educated…or have a thought process of their own…and are easily “disposed” of at a whim.

Have you ever seen the movie “The Stepford Wives”? You would love it.

God Bless America! Land of home, the brave and the “free”.

I am aghast that you would take up issue with the Vatican and their thoughts on this issue…as well as other issues. You are the anthesis to Catholicism for sure…Christianity to be sure.

Especially on a day like this.

AMEN!!!

Miz

 

[wisdomseeker]

Wisdomseeker, I am a widow and the sole support of my children. I find your comments offensive and odious. Do you think my children should live in a cardboard box on the street corner because their father has passed away? Do you think they should be deprived of the advantages that MY INCOME is able to supply? Arrogant, ignorant opinions such as this disgust me no end. People like you are exactly why we have the feminist movement.

If you think I should stay at home, then I invite you to support us financially so I can do so. Make sure you have a lot in ink in your pen when you go to write out that check–I’m a statistical programmer and you’re going to have to write a pretty big number.

Or are you nothing but hot air?

Miz

I am in way surprised, that the Truth would draw so much hatreth out of people.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Oh I see. Ok. You know there is a culture that totally subscribed to what YOU percive as womens roles. Funny thing is…it is the culture that you abhor…

Planes fly everyday to the Middle East…I am sure you will take comfort that women cannot drive, work, have to cover every inch of their body, “obey” men, whether it is their husband, their father, their uncle, their brother or their son, and best of all…are not allowed to be educated…or have a thought process of their own…and are easily “disposed” of at a whim.

Have you ever seen the movie “The Stepford Wives”? You would love it.

God Bless America! Land of home, the brave and the “free”.

I am aghast that you would take up issue with the Vatican and their thoughts on this issue…as well as other issues. You are the anthesis to Catholicism for sure…Christianity to be sure.

Especially on a day like this.

apparently you dont know what the CC has been teaching about women and their role in society. i guess you condemned the Mother of God and the nuns who covers themselves from top to bottom. interesting.

 

[Miserys_Fence]

I am in way surprised, that the Truth would draw so much hatreth out of people.

Nice way of avoiding the issue. The TRUTH is, I have to work to support my family. Did that not register with you? Do you want me to use smaller words? Add some diagrams? Type slower?

Do you really believe I “belong at home” enough that you’re willing to support me and my children so I can do so? Or are you a hypocrite?

I have no hatred for you. You flat-out aren’t worth the effort.

Miz

 

[Julianna]

apparently you dont know what the CC has been teaching about women and their role in society. i guess you condemned the Mother of God and the nuns who covers themselves from top to bottom. interesting.

First off, I don’t hate you and I doubt that Miz hates you either. I don’t know you and you don’t know me.

The BVM wore covering head to toe, because that is what they wore “back then”. The nuns at my children’s elementary school wore black skirts, black stockings, white blouses and black sweaters. Not covered head to toe. What century are you speaking of?

When I was in 5th grade, 1968…Sister Maureen wore a black skirt, white blouse, black stockings, black shoes and a black sweater. And that was 1968.

I respect the nuns/sisters for their vocation as I do priests. And not oddly enough, they respect mine. Because, dearheart, without my income, my DH and I could not have afforded to send our children to Catholic School.

 

[PatrickSebast]

I am in way surprised, that the Truth would draw so much hatreth out of people.

What “Truth” do you speak of? Women worked in the Bible. Tobit’s wife went to work when he was blinded in order to sustain her family. The woman of proverbs 31 had a lot of business related responsibilities. Ruth did labor for to support Naomi. The idea of a homeworker was much more useful when there was actual work such as farming, weaving, and preparing meals from the most basic elements. Now many of these things simple don’t happen in our society because you can get a far nicer shirt for a few dollars than most woman would be capable of making in under an hour. Buying a bag a flour is just a better idea than threshing grain since machines can thresh FAR faster, so women no longer have to do such things. Besides the idea of a woman being a homemaker is not something that existed throughout all of history. Many women performed trades and had employment in various societies. The main upswing in “homemaker” culture was that of feudal Europe and US puritanism. And what of St. Joan? Wrongfully venerated by the Church according to you? Or the many other female saints who worked outside of the home despite having children? If you want me to even begin to respect your views as having any level of truth to them you had better provide a source beyond your own personal belief that God and the “Proper” church want women out of the work force.

And what is with this whole idea of respecting the Catholic Church of the past, but not giving into its present authority. You were born into this generation so you are called to follow this church. If you want to follow teachings you believe the old Church may have held (and the records get more sparse the further back you go) they have a word for that, it is called Protestantism.

 

[Julianna]

What “Truth” do you speak of? Women worked in the Bible. Tobit’s wife went to work when he was blinded in order to sustain her family. The woman of proverbs 31 had a lot of business related responsibilities. Ruth did labor for to support Naomi. The idea of a homeworker was much more useful when there was actual work such as farming, weaving, and preparing meals from the most basic elements. Now many of these things simple don’t happen in our society because you can get a far nicer shirt for a few dollars than most woman would be capable of making in under an hour. Buying a bag a flour is just a better idea than threshing grain since machines can thresh FAR faster, so women no longer have to do such things. Besides the idea of a woman being a homemaker is not something that existed throughout all of history. Many women performed trades and had employment in various societies. The main upswing in “homemaker” culture was that of feudal Europe and US puritanism. And what of St. Joan? Wrongfully venerated by the Church according to you? Or the many other female saints who worked outside of the home despite having children? If you want me to even begin to respect your views as having any level of truth to them you had better provide a source beyond your own personal belief that God and the “Proper” church want women out of the work force.

And what is with this whole idea of respecting the Catholic Church of the past, but not giving into its present authority. You were born into this generation so you are called to follow this church. If you want to follow teachings you believe the old Church may have held (and the records get more sparse the further back you go) they have a word for that, it is called Protestantism.

Thank you

 

[Califman831]

Get back on topic, the fact that women should be subject to their husbands is best discussed in another thread. This thread should be about the Vatican’s irrational support of a false religion and the burning of its unholy book the koran. Yes, unholy, because in order to be considered holy it must have God’s grace and that is not possible outside of the Catholic Church which is one, holy, catholic, and apostolic.

“There is one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.” Eph. 4:5-6
Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age." – Matthew 28:18-20

 

[sidbrown]

God who knows all things, not us, has laid down laws for man and women. when we think that we know better than our Maker, we get ourselves into a lot of trouble and cannot get out of it by ourselves. i dont follow feminist agenda for liberation of women. women is to be at home raising children and not out in the field competing against men for their jobs. instead of being at home assuming their role in society, they are being disobedient to God and their children are being adopted by gays and lesbians. any way this might be off topic. no one should ever be proud of being disobedient to that One who laid down the laws for us. i dont follow idealistics of this world.

Although I would not go quite as far as you do here, I would have to admit that there is something to what you are saying. As far as the Koran goes, I have noticed that Muslim women dress a whole lot more modestly on the street in public while shopping, etc., than do some Catholic women at Church services. St. Paul has said that women should have their heads covered while in Church and I don’t see that being followed by Catholic women in Church today, although the Muslim women are showing their respectful attitude toward this.

 

[Julianna]

Get back on topic, the fact that women should be subject to their husbands is best discussed in another thread. This thread should be about the Vatican’s **irrational support **of a false religion and the burning of its unholy book the koran. Yes, unholy, because in order to be considered holy it must have God’s grace and that is not possible outside of the Catholic Church which is one, holy, catholic, and apostolic.

“There is one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.” Eph. 4:5-6

Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."     – Matthew 28:18-20

oh brother

as for off topic…you were the one that opened the door…

 

[sidbrown]

Get back on topic, the fact that women should be subject to their husbands is best discussed in another thread. This thread should be about the Vatican’s irrational support of a false religion and the burning of its unholy book the koran. Yes, unholy, because in order to be considered holy it must have God’s grace and that is not possible outside of the Catholic Church which is one, holy, catholic, and apostolic.

“There is one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.” Eph. 4:5-6

Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."     – Matthew 28:18-20

Didn’t the Catholic Pope John Paul II kiss the Koran in public to show his respect and admiration for the Muslim religion? Is it right for a Catholic to criticise the Vatican and the Pope in the matter of faith and morals?

 

[Julianna]

Although I would not go quite as far as you do here, I would have to admit that there is something to what you are saying. As far as the Koran goes, I have noticed that Muslim women dress a whole lot more modestly on the street in public while shopping, etc., than do some Catholic women at Church services. St. Paul has said that women should have their heads covered while in Church and I don’t see that being followed by Catholic women in Church today, although the Muslim women are showing their respectful attitude toward this.

…let’s see…cover your body, keep your mouth shut…or get beheaded…beaten or killed…

that’s a toughy…let me think about it.

oh brother

 

[Califman831]

Didn’t the Catholic Pope John Paul II kiss the Koran in public to show his respect and admiration for the Muslim religion? Is it right for a Catholic to criticise the Vatican and the Pope in the matter of faith and morals?

As I have stated in many posts here we are in a dark period as a result of Vatican II. When the pope is so far out wrong in his conduct he should be criticized, just as Paul criticized his superior Peter. The Pope’s loyalty should be to Christ and the Catholic Church not Allah nor Mohammad.

Juliana, the door was already opened when i posted.

 

[Julianna]

As I have stated in many posts here we are in a dark period as a result of Vatican II. When the pope is so far out wrong in his conduct he should be criticized, just as Paul criticized his superior Peter. The Pope’s loyalty should be to Christ and the Catholic Church not Allah nor Mohammad.

Juliana, the door was already opened when i posted.

oh brother

 

[Califman831]

oh brother

Are you one of our protestant members or a post VII convert?

 

[Julianna]

Are you one of our protestant members or a post VII convert?

neither…

born in March of '58

Baptized Catholic April '58

feel better now?

 

[sidbrown]

As I have stated in many posts here we are in a dark period as a result of Vatican II. When the pope is so far out wrong in his conduct he should be criticized, just as Paul criticized his superior Peter. The Pope’s loyalty should be to Christ and the Catholic Church not Allah nor Mohammad.
.

I thought that Catholics have a serious obligation to follow the Roman Pontiff in matters of faith and morals. Since the Vatican and the Roman Pontiff have expressed their esteem for Islam and have condemned the book burning, Catholics are bound to follow these declarations.

 

[Miserys_Fence]

I thought that Catholics have a serious obligation to follow the Roman Pontiff in matters of faith and morals. Since the Vatican and the Roman Pontiff have expressed their esteem for Islam and have condemned the book burning, Catholics are bound to follow these declarations.

I get that all the time, Sid…if I say “I don’t understand why…” or “that teaching doesn’t make any sense to me…” I get absolutely reamed on this forum about not blindly following the infallible Church. I was even told in one thread that I shouldn’t have become Catholic.

But I see “seasoned” Catholics absolutely bad-mouthing certain church teachings.

What a shame that my first introduction to my chosen religion is hypocrisy!

Miz