Vatican cardinal: it would be ‘anti-Catholic’ to let bishops’ conferences decide doctrine

[boar2roar]

Basically Marx would want something closer to what the Anglicans have right now? How could that be a selling point? Our unity and hierarchy is one of the problems we are blessed with not having compared to other groups, Even the orthodox consider organization one of their biggest problems and somehow Cardinal Marx believes going further than them would solve problems. Maybe it would help in getting more german taxpayers but for the church as whole?

 

[ProVobis]

Basically Marx would want something closer to what the Anglicans have right now? How could that be a selling point? Our unity and hierarchy is one of the problems we are blessed with not having compared to other groups, Even the orthodox consider organization one of their biggest problems and somehow Cardinal Marx believes going further than them would solve problems. Maybe it would help in getting more german taxpayers but for the church as whole?

Good observation. And to think the Ordinariates broke off because they couldn’t tolerate the Anglican doctrines any longer.

 

[PTL]

God bless Cardinal Muller!!

 

[WilliamOK]

Cardinal Gerhard Mueller, prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, has told a French paper that doctrinal, or even disciplinary, decisions regarding marriage and family are not up for determination by national bishops’ conferences. …

“Episcopal conferences have authority on certain matters, but they are not a magisterium beside the Magisterium, without the Pope and without communion with all the bishops,” he continued. …

The cardinal was asked directly about comments made last month by Cardinal Reinhard Marx of Munich and Freising, who is president of the German bishops’ conference. Cardinal Marx told reporters, “We are not a branch of Rome. Each conference of bishops is responsible for pastoral care in its cultural context and must preach the Gospel in its own, original way. We cannot wait for a synod to tell us how we have to shape pastoral care for marriage and family here.” …

Responding to the assertions of the president of the German bishops’ conference, Cardinal Mueller, who was ordained a priest of the Diocese of Mainz, remarked that “an episcopal conference is not a particular council, much less an ecumenical council. The president of an episcopal conference is nothing more than a technical moderator, and he does not have any particular magisterial authority due to this title.” …

Cardinal Marx’ comments have also been countered by another Vatican prelate of German origins.

Cardinal Paul Josef Cordes, who was ordained a priest of the Archdiocese of Paderborn and is president emeritus of the Pontifical Council Cor Unum, published a strenuous objection to the media statements of his fellow German bishop in the form of a March 7 letter to the editor of Die Tagespost.

Discussing Cardinal Marx’ statements on bishops’ conferences and ecclesiology, he wrote that his “theological blurriness makes you wonder,” adding that statements like “we are not a branch of Rome” are more suited “to the counter of a bar.”

“The head of the German bishop’s conference certainly has some competence when it comes to a second edition of the hymnal or the changing of the pilgrim route to Altötting,” Cardinal Cordes stated. “But the president argues something entirely different.”

ewtnnews.com/catholic-news/Vatican.php?id=11889

 

[Tarpeian_Rock]

Jack Chick is “anti-Catholic.” Surely some other term is more appropriate for a Bishops’ conference, regardless of what it is claimed their position is.

 

[Rubia]

Jack Chick is “anti-Catholic.” Surely some other term is more appropriate for a Bishops’ conference, regardless of what it is claimed their position is.

The conference has nowhere been called anti-catholic. Just the position that each conference is autonomous from the pope and the whole church in determining doctrine is what is called anti-catholic. I think a better term would have been heretical or just wrong.

 

[pnewton]

Jack Chick is “anti-Catholic.” Surely some other term is more appropriate for a Bishops’ conference, regardless of what it is claimed their position is.

I thought the same thing. However, remember that translators can ramp up rhetoric by their choice of words. We can only judge how loaded statements are when they are done in the native tongue and not translated. Even then, sometimes the rhetoric use can be extreme, offensive and divisive. In such a case, we have to just accept the humanity and failings we all have in regards to charity, and appreciate the passion for the truth, for people, for the faith, or whatever motivates such language.

 

[ProVobis]

I thought the same thing. However, remember that translators can ramp up rhetoric by their choice of words. We can only judge how loaded statements are when they are done in the native tongue and not translated. Even then, sometimes the rhetoric use can be extreme, offensive and divisive. In such a case, we have to just accept the humanity and failings we all have in regards to charity, and appreciate the passion for the truth, for people, for the faith, or whatever motivates such language.

Good points.

My step-brother is a court translator. I asked him once how he translates the “swear” words. Everything becomes “GDI” in English and I’m sure that’s what juries take as “official” in determining their judgement. Wrong, in my opinion.

 

[gilliam]

Jack Chick is “anti-Catholic.” Surely some other term is more appropriate for a Bishops’ conference, regardless of what it is claimed their position is.

I think his point was that it would be a Protestant method to let local bishop conferences change doctrine. It isn’t something the Catholic Church can even do with our understanding of apostolic succession. So in that way it is anti-Catholic (against the Catholic way.)

 

[WestonGrant]

Canon 455 A conference of bishops can only issue general decrees in cases where universal law has prescribed it or a special mandate of the Apostolic See has established it either motu proprio or at the request of the conference itself.

§4. In cases in which neither universal law nor a special mandate of the Apostolic See has granted the power mentioned in §1 to a conference of bishops, the competence of each diocesan bishop remains intact, nor is a conference or its president able to act in the name of all the bishops unless each and every bishop has given consent.

Thank you for this. I knew I had read somewhere that bishops conferences have no authority over bishops who disagree. They don’t have authority in and of themselves.

I’m glad that Mueller is pushing back against this because it’s getting out of hand.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

In the Vatican Insider article, I found this quote from Card Muller, very encouraging to read:

“Francis would like that people in difficult situations were not abandoned, but accompanied and accepted in the community, without however eliminating parts of the Church’s doctrine”, says Mueller, talking on the synodal theme of communion with remarried divorcees."

vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en/the-vatican/detail/articolo/mueller-mueller-mueller-40052/

I hope this is accurate!!!

 

[McCall1981]

I hope this is accurate!!!

Me too. I think it’s especially important that this comment came from Card Muller. He hasn’t said anything like this before, so it doesn’t seem like he would say it lightly now.

 

[_Abyssinia]

Excerpt from interview

Cardinal Muller says no to second marriage without annulment

Is it possible to make disciplinary changes without affecting doctrine?

Card. G.L.M.: Discipline and pastoral concerns must act in harmony with doctrine. Doctrine is not an ideal theory that would be corrected in practice, but the expression of the truth revealed in Jesus Christ.

**With regard to divorced people who remarry, is it conceivable that, after following a path of penitence, a second union could be recognized that would not have a sacramental character?

Card. G.L.M.**: It is impossible to have two wives. If the first union is valid, it is not possible to enter into a second one at the same time. A path of penitence is possible, but not a second union. The only possibility is to return to the first, legitimate union, or to live in the second union as brother and sister: that is the Church’s position, in agreement with the will of Jesus. I would add that it is always possible to try and obtain an annulment from an ecclesiastical tribunal.

**In your view, does the solution lie in relaxing canonical rules?

Card. G.L.M.**: That is what Benedict XVI had requested. Unfortunately, for a some Catholics, the celebration of marriage is no longer anything but a folk custom; for others, it has a sacramental meaning. It is up to the Church tribunal to prove its whether it is a true sacrament or not. Canon law can be adapted to concrete situations.

globalpulsemagazine.com/news/cardinal-muller-says-no-to-second-marriage-without-annulment/1016

 

[McCall1981]

Excerpt from interview

Cardinal Muller says no to second marriage without annulment

globalpulsemagazine.com/news/cardinal-muller-says-no-to-second-marriage-without-annulment/1016