Vatican Clarifying Latin (Tridentine) Mass Rules

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“Some have even gone so far as to accuse the pope of having reneged on Council teaching,” Bertone was quoted as saying. “On the other hand, there are those who have interpreted the (document) as authorization to return exclusively to the pre-Council rite. Both positions are wrong, and are exaggerated episodes that don’t correspond to the pope’s intention.”
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Both sides are wrong is correct. However, I want to address the second part of the statement.

There are some who are trying to shove the EF Mass down people’s throats of those who prefer the OF Mass (which includes me). I am even seeing it in some of the threads and posts in another section of CAF.
 
*VATICAN CITY - The Vatican has begun drafting a document to elaborate on Pope Benedict XVI’s recent liberalization of the old Latin Mass because some bishops are either ignoring his move or misinterpreting it, Vatican officials said. *

Implementation, however, has been uneven, with some bishops issuing rules that “practically annul or twist the intention of the pope,” Monsignor Albert Malcolm Ranjith, secretary of the Vatican’s Congregation for the Divine Cult and Discipline of Sacraments, said recently, according to the Vatican’s missionary news agency FIDES.
 
Some people have said on a number of other threads here that the bishop is in charge of the liturgy in his own diocese and that he can make his own rules about the liturgy. This thread provides a good example of how a bishop’s authority is restricted in this way, and is a matter that can be brought up when people claim that the bishop governs the liturgy without a higher authority in his diocese.
 
mdgspencer said:
Some people have said on a number of other threads here that the bishop is in charge of the liturgy in his own diocese and that he can make his own rules about the liturgy. This thread provides a good example of how a bishop’s authority is restricted in this way, and is a matter that can be brought up when people claim that the bishop governs the liturgy without a higher authority in his diocese.
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A friend of mine once said that the term regarding the Mass and the bishops, used in the Church documents is “regulates” (makes regular - makes sure there is no deviation from the regular) NOT “legislates” (makes the rules) the Mass"

Now, (re: translation from latin to english) I realize not all our priests have a Latin education, because… because the bishops control the seminaries. But they could at least teach ENGLISH!
And maybe JUST MAYBE, that’s why there was a post a few weeks ago about the pope insisting that latin be taught in the seminaries - OH the wonders of a dead language!!! -
IT NEVER CHANGES!! 😃
 
There are many of us in the Greensburg PA area that are prayerfully still waiting. The couple of priests that were willing and able to do the TLM have now been limited to one or two a week mid-week.:crying: :gopray2: :gopray2:
 
Don’t get me wrong. I think it is wonderful to free up the availability of the Latin mass but we do have a whole generation that know nothing but the Novus Ordo. Why are so many hellbent on alienating them in the interests of bringing back the Latin mass. The two can exist side by side as do the eastern rites of worship for eastern rite Catholics.
 
goofyjim said:
Don’t get me wrong. I think it is wonderful to free up the availability of the Latin mass but we do have a whole generation that know nothing but the Novus Ordo. Why are so many hellbent on alienating them in the interests of bringing back the Latin mass. The two can exist side by side as do the eastern rites of worship for eastern rite Catholics.
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But that same question could’ve been asked around 1970? Why alienate all Catholics by replacing one liturgy with a whole new liturgy? Why not have them side by side then?

That question could’ve been asked then as well as today.
 
goofyjim said:
…Why are so many hellbent on alienating them in the interests of bringing back the Latin mass…
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How does reintroducing the extraordinary form for those who wish to use it alienate those who do not wish to use it? All they have to do is not attend it.
 
Leopard said:
How does reintroducing the extraordinary form for those who wish to use it alienate those who do not wish to use it? All they have to do is not attend it.
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Because it creates two separate rites which leads to confusion and often in-fighting as to which one is the “right” one. That is why it was restricted before, to show unitity towards the new NO mass.

Now we are in a situation where the confusion will only increase and more people will get into a “my mass is better than your mass” discussion and discussion will sadly degrade from there.
 
NewUlm1976_2000 said:
Because it creates two separate rites which leads to confusion and often in-fighting as to which one is the “right” one. That is why it was restricted before, to show unitity towards the new NO mass.

Now we are in a situation where the confusion will only increase and more people will get into a “my mass is better than your mass” discussion and discussion will sadly degrade from there.
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We have about 16 Roman rites not including the Eastern Catholic rites, what confusion?🙂

Ref. Latin liturgical rites
 
mdgspencer said:
Some people have said on a number of other threads here that the bishop is in charge of the liturgy in his own diocese and that he can make his own rules about the liturgy. This thread provides a good example of how a bishop’s authority is restricted in this way, and is a matter that can be brought up when people claim that the bishop governs the liturgy without a higher authority in his diocese.
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I’d be one of those that said the Bishop is in charge. I felt the MP even emphasized this point. Frankly, this MP begs clarification.

In my local Parish, there was never a mumbling word about this, ever. When I ask about it, the most common response is “what is a MP”? We have one Priest and all he has done is reduce the number of NO Mass on Sunday from three to two so as not to burn himself out (his words).

Nohome
 
mdgspencer said:
Some people have said on a number of other threads here that the bishop is in charge of the liturgy in his own diocese and that he can make his own rules about the liturgy. This thread provides a good example of how a bishop’s authority is restricted in this way, and is a matter that can be brought up when people claim that the bishop governs the liturgy without a higher authority in his diocese.
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The bishop here is adamantly opposed to TLM and will mistranslate what comes down from the Vatican. It’s unbelievable!
 
Sounds like the Vatican made the same decision here as it did on female altar servers in 1994. It gave permission for their use but did not require any parish to have them or deny any diocese to have them. It is a 50/50 decision that states there is more permission to have the Tridentine mass if the local people want it. If more in a parish prefer to keep the Novus Ordo then they keep that. Both should be happy campers.
 
goofyjim said:
Sounds like the Vatican made the same decision here as it did on female altar servers in 1994. It gave permission for their use but did not require any parish to have them or deny any diocese to have them. It is a 50/50 decision that states there is more permission to have the Tridentine mass if the local people want it. If more in a parish prefer to keep the Novus Ordo then they keep that. Both should be happy campers.
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Jim, I don’t think that is exactly correct. But I don’t think it is too far off either.

It is my understanding that IF a group within a parish wants the Tridentine mass, and IF the priest is qualified to give the Tridentine mass, then the priest may offer a Tridentine mass for those who support it. So if a parish priest has 4 scheduled masses to celebrate Sunday service, it is possible that 1 of those masses may be switched to the Tridentine mass each week. But it is also just as likely that 1 mass per month, or even less, may be offered in the Tridentine tradition. But there is nothing that even implies the whole of the parish will switch from one type of mass to the other if something like 51% of the parish prefers the one type over the other.

Personally my priest is not qualified to give a Tridentine mass, but I’d love to see one offered at our parish, even if only periodically. I remember some Tridentine masses from when I was a child, its a beautiful mass, even if I don’t understand Latin. I think it would be nice to attend on a periodic basis.
 
melensdad said:
Jim, I don’t think that is exactly correct. But I don’t think it is too far off either.

It is my understanding that IF a group within a parish wants the Tridentine mass, and IF the priest is qualified to give the Tridentine mass, then the priest may offer a Tridentine mass for those who support it. So if a parish priest has 4 scheduled masses to celebrate Sunday service, it is possible that 1 of those masses may be switched to the Tridentine mass each week. But it is also just as likely that 1 mass per month, or even less, may be offered in the Tridentine tradition. But there is nothing that even implies the whole of the parish will switch from one type of mass to the other if something like 51% of the parish prefers the one type over the other.

Personally my priest is not qualified to give a Tridentine mass, but I’d love to see one offered at our parish, even if only periodically. I remember some Tridentine masses from when I was a child, its a beautiful mass, even if I don’t understand Latin. I think it would be nice to attend on a periodic basis.
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Sincerely, I wish they would train more priests in the Tridentine mass but not in an effort to do away with the Novus Ordo. I can find beauty in both because I for one understand whom it is I am worshipping. The form or language used is inconsequential and God can understand my English just as much as He can Latin.
 
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