Vatican comes under sharp criticism for sex abuse, UN committee

[Lion_IRC]

…This is continuing, the protection of those who shielded abusers.

It’s happening in my diocese still. It’s disgusting.

Which diocese are you in? Please help us shine more light on this very serious allegation.

…The church, here, has been rampant with homosexuality in the priesthood, with priests leading double lives.

The Church WHERE? Please tell us what parish you are in.
Double-lives? What exactly are you alleging?
Some folk claim that the clergy is full of athiests pretending to be priests also.

…The priesthood being the biggest Cafeteria Catholics of all.

What is a cafeteria catholic? You call yourself one according to your current profile.
Are they good (obedient to God) or not???
Enough of the slurs please.

 

[Robert_Bay]

Negative and rude comments toward CAF members, clergy (deacons, priests and bishops) or toward religious and religious orders are banned.

Everyone, online and offline, deserves to be spoken to and about respectfully. However, some posters seem to feel that clergy and religious are fair game.

If you have an issue with them, take it up in private, not on this forum or any of our forums.

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If we deem that you are disrespectful to our clergy and religious, you will receive an infraction or even a ban.

Proof what you write before you post.

You may not make disparaging remarks about:

• Vatican II
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Avoid arguments that will lead to violations of charity. You don’t have to like what you read and others do not have to like what you post. But you must be civil toward each other and those who are not on the forum.

As Fr. Gorndon said in a recent post, “Sometimes we can think that we know more than we do and that leads us to make assumptions which could be incorrect. While having questions and seeking answers, we still need to trust that the Holy Spirit is who is guiding the Church. Put your mind at ease and trust in God to guide His Church.”

 

[weller2]

I love how people will, on one hand, cry “SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE!!!” (and grievously outside of context, too boot),

Vatican has no separation of church and state.

Besides, even if it had, Vatican State has voluntarily signed certain international conventions and acceded to the UN. It is therefore bound to play by certain rules. If an organization operating on the territory of the Vatican and staffed by its citizens (i.e. the Holy See) is engaged in actions which violate these conventions, and Vatican State refuses to procecute these actions, then Vatican State is in violations of said conventions. To which, let me repeat, it has acceded voluntarily, and knowing penalties for non-compliance.

It is the job of the UN to see if these conventions are obeyed, hence the appropriate UN commitee has every right to grill the representative of the Vatican State over alleged violations.

but then insist that the Church somehow keep complete and total track of all priests around the world outside of the countries’ law enforcement systems in which those priests live.

Since there are documented cases where priests have been moved to a different country to prevent being charged with abuse, the request does not really seem that far fetched.

 

[Lion_IRC]

If people have evidence of “the protection of those who shielded abusers” happening in their diocese they need to go immediately to the police,
not spread unsubstantiated gossip on an internet discussion forum.

It needs to be remembered that, after the actual victims themselves, there are other innocent victims in all this.

Being falsely accused of a horrific crime – remember, we are talking about pedophilia and child rape here - which you did NOT commit, can have traumatic psychological impact.

The news headlines and radio talk-back constitute something of a de facto public commission of enquiry into so-called pedophile priests. And the media (especially the internet) has provided a megaphone for people to make unsubstantiated assertions against unnamed priests and pastors and religious teachers.

Christianity itself, via its clergy, is being relentlessly and publically attacked as the hated scapegoat for the, as yet, unnamed, unprosecuted, unconvicted, faceless pedophiles whose deeds from decades past are spoken about like the modern-day equivalent of the bogey-man.

50,000 cases in the Catholic Church over 30 years? Yes, that’s disgusting!

What’s even worse is 150 MILLION cases of child sexual abuse…in ONE SINGLE YEAR outside the catholic church.

 

[Lion_IRC]

A letter to a parish priest.

Dear Father Jeff,

I was saddened at Mass recently to hear your impassioned statements about the scandal that troubles our Church these days in relation to past events.

I say ‘‘saddened’’, because I felt deep pity for you. In particular when you talked about your earlier years and you said, at one point,
“I can guarantee you that I never…”

You dont need to guarantee us that.

We trust you and we trust The Holy Spirit who speaks to us on your behalf that you are good and true like all other real Priests and Nuns who give their lives to serve God and to serve us.

Second only to the primary victims of such horrible deeds, it is honest and good people like you who are ALSO the victims.

We see the sadness in the eyes of Father Dennis, Father George, Father Christopher as they publically endure undeserved hatred from ungodly people - especially via the media - while satan laughs.

Yes, scripture tells us that satan strikes at the Shepard in order to scatter the flock and many of the flock are being put to the test to see if they scatter or show trust in God’s protection of His Church.

It is we who should be giving the guarantees not you.

That we trust God.
That we trust our parish priest…
That we will not scatter when the lord of lies slanders our clergy.

God bless you and we thank you for your strength and leadership.

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

I love how people will, on one hand, cry “SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE!!!” (and grievously outside of context, too boot), but then insist that the Church somehow keep complete and total track of all priests around the world outside of the countries’ law enforcement systems in which those priests live.

Total double standard.

The U.N. is also a useless relic, and what they have to say on any given matter carries about as much weight and authority as my left pinkie-finger.

It seems like a good rule of thumb that any time you are aware of sexual abuse, just go ahead and report it to the authorities. At the very least, don’t go out of your way to cover it up. I don’t see how it’s a violation of the separation of Church and State (in the U.S.) for the Church to report sexual abuse to the proper civil authorities. Can you explain?

 

[Lochias]

It seems like a good rule of thumb that any time you are aware of sexual abuse, just go ahead and report it to the authorities. At the very least, don’t go out of your way to cover it up. I don’t see how it’s a violation of the separation of Church and State (in the U.S.) for the Church to report sexual abuse to the proper civil authorities. Can you explain?

The UN appears to be “asking” the Church to go far beyond the reporting of suspected criminals to civil authorities.

The UN is essentially asking for a witch-hunt.

 

[Resgo]

Dear all
We understand one thing,this is all saitans work.please
keep our children.Fight against the dark spirit.Suffering and praying like our saints.Keep the Catholic values like St.Peter and Paul.

Pray for everything

 

[Gricken]

I love how people will, on one hand, cry “SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE!!!” (and grievously outside of context, too boot), but then insist that the Church somehow keep complete and total track of all priests around the world outside of the countries’ law enforcement systems in which those priests live.

Total double standard.

The U.N. is also a useless relic, and what they have to say on any given matter carries about as much weight and authority as my left pinkie-finger.

Careful with that last comment, remember a lot of people say the same about the church

 

[Brendan]

I do believe the the UN is about as moral as a rock.

I

I wish it would be so. A rock, as an inanimate object is amoral. It is neither moral nor immoral

The UN is an anti-moral entity. It deliberately acts AGAINST the Natural Law.

 

[pepipop]

The latest MSM ‘news’ coming out of the UN’s measured investigation.

worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2014/01/17/22340073-pope-benedict-defrocked-400-priests-in-2-years-report?lite

***Pope Benedict defrocked 400 priests in 2 years: *report
By John Heilprin and Nicole Winfield, The Associated Press

A document obtained by The Associated Press on Friday shows Pope Benedict XVI defrocked nearly 400 priests over just two years for sexually molesting children.
The statistics for 2011 and 2012 show a dramatic increase over the 171 priests removed in 2008 and 2009, when the Vatican first provided details on the number of priests who have been defrocked. Prior to that, it had only publicly revealed the number of alleged cases of sexual abuse it had received and the number of trials it had authorized.

While it’s not clear why the numbers spiked in 2011, it could be because 2010 saw a new explosion in the number of cases reported in the media in Europe and beyond.
The document was prepared from data the Vatican had been collecting and was compiled to help the Holy See defend itself before a U.N. committee this week in Geneva.
Archbishop Silvano Tomasi, the Vatican’s U.N. ambassador in Geneva, referred to just one of the statistics in the course of eight hours of oftentimes pointed criticism and questioning from the U.N. human rights committee.

The statistics were compiled from the Vatican’s own annual reports about the activities of its various offices, including the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, which handles sex abuse cases. Although public, the annual reports are not readily available or sold outside Rome and are usually found in Vatican offices or Catholic university libraries. **

 

[Arizona_Mike]

So 400 priests from around the world out of (the figure normally bandied about is roughly) 410,000 priests in the world were laicized for sexual offenses, not all for cases involving minors. That’s about 1/10th of 1 percent of all the priests at any one time, around the whole world.

The teachers’ union in New York would be happy to have rates that low.

 

[ProVobis]

So 400 priests from around the world out of (the figure normally bandied about is roughly) 410,000 priests in the world were laicized for sexual offenses, not all for cases involving minors. That’s about 1/10th of 1 percent of all the priests at any one time, around the whole world.

It doesn’t take much to bankrupt a diocese.

 

[CorinneV]

I whole-heartedly agree that our Catholic clergy is sincerely committed to serving and protecting all persons, especially innocent children. However,I believe that the adminstration of our Church in the US and at the Vatican have not yet learned to think as a parent would think about a cleric who molests. Why does the US still have a bishop who has been convicted of the crime of failing to report suspected Child abuse? Why is this bishop still serving as a bishop? He failed in his duty to protect little toddlers from a pedophile. How can this situation continue? I cannot understand this.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

Why can’t you all see that if we stopped defending ourselves on this issue, and just admitted a systemic problem and repaired it – that if we turned the other cheek – the people of the world would come to realize that the scourge of child abuse is everywhere, not just in the Catholic church? **As long as we stay defensive, as long as we keep quoting statistics about “how holy our priests are”, we are playing into the hands of our opponents.
**
Let the powers that be beat us up. Then the world will see that the Church is willing to suffer to regain its honor – and honor that has been tarnished by these scandals.

 

[OriginalJS]

Hogwash and tripe. The Church is the Church, not the people in the Church. The Church is a hospital for sinners, not an exclusive club for the perfect.

And I think it’s interesting indeed that you don’t expect the family members of those abused, who account for over half of all abusers, to be held to that same standard.

Interesting, indeed.

Attempting to deflect criticism by claiming others are doing as bad or worse is usually not persuasive. It sure hasn’t been regarding priestly sexual abuse of children.

 

[RPRPsych]

Why can’t you all see that if we stopped defending ourselves on this issue, and just admitted a systemic problem and repaired it – that if we turned the other cheek – the people of the world would come to realize that the scourge of child abuse is everywhere, not just in the Catholic church? **As long as we stay defensive, as long as we keep quoting statistics about “how holy our priests are”, we are playing into the hands of our opponents.
**
Let the powers that be beat us up. Then the world will see that the Church is willing to suffer to regain its honor – and honor that has been tarnished by these scandals.

I didn’t see any of the Apostles rushing to defend Judas, and pointing out that “the rest of us are all right, so stop criticizing him!”

That said, the U.N. is far from an ideal moral compass. But this does not absolve us from providing an authentically Christian response, as Pope Benedict XVI did. Pope Benedict never said “families and teachers are doing it, so leave us alone!” He took action and spoke forthrightly.

 

[Lochias]

Attempting to deflect criticism by claiming others are doing as bad or worse is usually not persuasive. It sure hasn’t been regarding priestly sexual abuse of children.

…aaaand people will ignore the facts, time and time again, to see what they want to see instead of the truth.

Truly, there is nothing new under the sun.

 

[weller2]

Why does the US still have a bishop who has been convicted of the crime of failing to report suspected Child abuse?

For the record, the bishop in question was implicated in a case involving posession of child pornography, not molesting. The point still stands, though.

The teachers’ union in New York would be happy to have rates that low.

Except that teachers do not operate in persona Christi. So clerical pedophilia in addition to being a heinous crime is a blasphemy.

THAT is the difference.

 

[ProVobis]

Except that teachers do not operate in persona Christi. So clerical pedophilia in addition to being a heinous crime is a blasphemy.

THAT is the difference.

Indeed. And if we can’t trust our bishops and priests in moral guidance and leadership, whom can we trust?