Vatican Confirms SSPX Is Being Offered Personal Prelature

[JReducation]

Brother JR, I must ask: is there anything you don’t know? All of your posts are so informative, I feel like I’m in a classroom reading all of them!

Yeah there are some things that I don’t know, practical things too that I wish I knew, such as how to unjam a copier machine, change the temperature on a water heater, change the oil in our car, or how to balance a checkbook without using Excel. I’m dead serious. I have serious problems with things that most people can do in their sleep. Abstracts and mathematical formulae I can understand and analyze. I have a very analytical mind. I have a knack for languages. I had a very good background in Latin, which helps me incredibly. Ask me to fix a paper jam or to sew a button on a shirt and I’m all thumbs.

I had a lot of time an opportunity to read and meet very interesting people. I grew up as a State Department brat traveling around with my dad. Then I went to university in three countries. I was also a university professor and later a dean. You meet all kinds of very interesting people on a university campus, both professors and students. My family is very large, so we’re multinational and multilingual.

My mom has 17 siblings, 64 nieces and nephews and many many grand nieces and nephews and great grand nieces and nephews. When we come together, there is a great deal of cultural wealth and assorted experiences to share. It’s one of the blessings of a large family. My father’s family didn’t have that advantage. They were a small family, only seven siblings.

Having read JReducation’s fine description of a prelature, I have to admit that while it wouldn’t be a reward to rebels or dissidents, if all you want is to be sure you’re obeying the authentic magisterium, it still sounds like a gift from on high.

I speak as a person who suffers regularly under the heel of weak teachings, passed on by several proxies between myself and the authentic magisterium, at least some of whom have taken it upon themselves to be tight-lipped about the truths of the faith for whatever their reason might be.

Literally, thank God for the internet, and its ready access to the wealth of authentic documents and papal letters.

I guess my point is that only the magisterium and the pope are infallible in teaching faith and morals, and the closer I can be to that, the better. If they really want to serve the Lord, I should hope that the SSPX will see it the same way.

The laws concerning the prelatures are so few that they allow for almost anything that the Holy Father wants without having to abrogate an older law. This is actually sweet for the pope and the prelature in the sense that it can be setup almost anyway that he feels is a good fit. It can be very flexible or very rigid. Only time will tell if and how the SSPX prelature goes.

I just read something, on another site, that left me confused. I don’t know how true it is. According to the poster, on June 14, Bishop Fellay said that there were problems with what he received from the Holy See. It quotes Fr. Lombardi as saying that the general chapter of the SSPX is in July (I believe) and that the offer would be discussed by the SSPX at that time.

We’re getting many conflicting reports here. On the one hand, one source said that Bishop Fellay had said that he would respond in a reasonable amount of time, giving the impression that it could be soon and that the decision is in his hands. On the other, there is the talk of a general chapter. General chapters can postpone things. They usually have authority over the superior general. I don’ t know if the SSPX is structured the same way. Our general chapters give the superiors their marching orders. If this is the same, then the capitulars can revoke Bishop Fellay’s freedom to agree to the offer.

One source said that this would mean further discussion. Another source said, “The ball is in their court now.” And yet another source said, “We’re getting close to an agreement.” Which is it?

If I were press secretary for either the Vatican or SSPX, by this time I would have said something really dumb like, “Bishop Fellay stopped by today and picked up an envelop from Cardinal Levada. They had a two hour meeting and I have no idea what’s in the envelop or how the meeting went.”

Hmmm . . . I guess that would not make me a good press secretary, huh?

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

 

[TS_Aquinas]

Yeah there are some things that I don’t know, practical things too that I wish I knew, such as how to unjam a copier machine, change the temperature on a water heater, change the oil in our car, or how to balance a checkbook without using Excel. I’m dead serious. I have serious problems with things that most people can do in their sleep. Abstracts and mathematical formulae I can understand and analyze. I have a very analytical mind. I have a knack for languages. I had a very good background in Latin, which helps me incredibly. Ask me to fix a paper jam or to sew a button on a shirt and I’m all thumbs.

I had a lot of time an opportunity to read and meet very interesting people. I grew up as a State Department brat traveling around with my dad. Then I went to university in three countries. I was also a university professor and later a dean. You meet all kinds of very interesting people on a university campus, both professors and students. My family is very large, so we’re multinational and multilingual.

My mom has 17 siblings, 64 nieces and nephews and many many grand nieces and nephews and great grand nieces and nephews. When we come together, there is a great deal of cultural wealth and assorted experiences to share. It’s one of the blessings of a large family. My father’s family didn’t have that advantage. They were a small family, only seven siblings.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

I can only hope I get half that much education when I am able to respond to my vocation (just baptized, have to wait), Ordo Praedicatorum if that wasn’t obvious

 

[Pork_Roll]

So, the moral of this post is don’t make claims about stuff you can’t substantiate and pass them off as facts. You can’t even call these opinions, because you can’t have differing opinions about reality (like there being “no protestant churches”. There either was or wasn’t, one of those is true and one is false).

Did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed this morning?

Day before yesterday there was an interesting ceremony, which attracted a large number of spectators, connected with the laying of the corner-stone of the first Protestant church edifice within the walls of Rome.

This was dated from 1873.

Forced nationalization? From history, the event you are talking about is the Italian Unification.

It was forced nationalism the happened in the all over Europe and in the U.S. In fact, Pius IX sent Jefferson Davis a crown of thorns as a gesture of soliderity with him.

Italian nationalism had been stoked during the Napoleonic period but dashed by the settlement of the Congress of Vienna (1814–15), which left Italy divided: aside from Sardinia-Piedmont, Tuscany and the north were under rule of junior cadet branches of the Habsburgs and in the south the Kingdom of the Two Sicilies was under Bourbon rule. In 1848, nationalist and liberal revolutions began to break out across Europe; in 1849, a Roman Republic was declared and Pope Pius IX fled the city.

Your reputable source for the anti-clerical atmosphere is …?

By the fact that everywhere there is forced nationalization, there is anti-celericalism. Be it France, Italy, Germany or Spain. There were different factions and some of those were hostle to the church. They were “liberals” or “progressives”. But, if you want evidence, putting the Pope under house arrest for one.

 

[JReducation]

I can only hope I get half that much education when I am able to respond to my vocation (just baptized, have to wait), Ordo Praedicatorum if that wasn’t obvious

I beg to differ with you. There was a divine call to follow Christ into the Church and you responded by accepting the faith and Baptism. Your response has already begun.

A response to a vocation is a process, not a moment in time. There is a moment in time when we externalize that process through ritual. However, the response to the divine call was there before the ritual.

Archbishop Lefebvre wrote something that I always liked. We don’t disagree on everything. He spoke about his experience as a missionary in Africa. People would ask him to baptize them right away, just in case they died before he came back. He would tell them that if they did die before his return, they had nothing to worry about, because they had already been baptized by their desire.

I always liked this little story, because it demonstrates how we respond to God’s call not at a single moment (ie. Baptisme or entrance into the Church), but through a series of events that walk us through a process that leads to the Father…

Another one of my favorites is Elizabeth Ann Seton. She once wrote that she had become a Catholic when she was baptized in the Episcopal Church, because her journey into the Church began then, even though she was nor formally received into the Church until her late 20s or early 30s. Each step of the way, God was molding her and she allowed herself to be molded.

DO NOT think of yourself as someone who has yet to respond to his vocation, but as a beautiful piece of sculpture hidden inside a block of marble. God, the divine sculptor, is giving you form and expression with each event in your life. You part is to respond to those events with great love, one event at a time. He does the rest. That’s how vocations work.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

 

[TimothyH]

Let’s remember that 500 secular priests are a large number for a diocese, not for an international organization. The Salesians and the Franciscans each have more than one million members. How many Salesians or Franciscans are in the average diocese? My point is that we’re thinking that the influence of these 500 men is going to turn the Church around. That’s not realistic.

I encountered this today, someone who was sure that that regularization of the SSPX is just what is needed to fix many abuses and problems in the Church which he sees. He was quite happy today, almost joyous. “Now you are going to see things start to turn around” was his exact comment.

People came to Mass. We had incense and said the Gloria because it was the Feast of the Immaculate Heart of Mary. Afterward we chatted about the pro-life voters information table set up by the Knights of Columbus for a few minutes, said hello to a few friends, and talked about how Bible study was going. People started lining up for confession. We went home. Life in the Parish of Our Lady of the Ordinary Form in the Archdiocise of Anywhere went on, and will continue to go on.

I fear that some of those with unrealistic expectations will feel emboldened and being to push, and thereby set themselves up for a letdown.

-Tim-

 

[TheDoctor]

A prelature is governed directly by the pope. The FSSP is not governed by the pope. They have their own superior general

The prelature will have statutes and constitutions handed to it by the Vatican. Prelatures do not get to write their own statutes, as do societies of apostolic life and religious communities. The statutes are written at the Vatican, given to the prelate to comment, edited, if the prelate has something good to contribute and then sent to the pope for final approval. He issues the constitution of the prelature.

Br. J.R. - does anything happen to a prelature upon the election of a new pope? Do the prelature statues need to be re-approved? I presume the new pope can change the statues as he sees fit or suppress the prelature if he does not approve of it?

 

[JReducation]

I encountered this today, someone who was sure that that regularization of the SSPX is just what is needed to fix many abuses and problems in the Church which he sees. He was quite happy today, almost joyous. “Now you are going to see things start to turn around” was his exact comment.

People came to Mass. We had incense and said the Gloria because it was the Feast of the Immaculate Heart of Mary. Afterward we chatted about the pro-life voters information table set up by the Knights of Columbus for a few minutes, said hello to a few friends, and talked about how Bible study was going. People started lining up for confession. We went home. Life in the Parish of Our Lady of the Ordinary Form in the Archdiocise of Anywhere went on, and will continue to go on.

I fear that some of those with unrealistic expectations will feel emboldened and being to push, and thereby set themselves up for a letdown.

I think that when we setup unrealistic expectations we’re going to be disappointed and disappointment often leads to anger. As I always say, the problem is that when we are disappointed and become angry, instead of being angry out ourselves for being foolish, we’re angry that the other because he didn’t meet my expectations. The truth is that he never promised to meet my expectations. I don’t hear the SSPX promising to convert the world or fix the Church.

In fact, I heard just the opposite in one of Bishop Fellay’s recent interviews. He pointed out that there has never been a perfect Church in the human sense. Since day one the Church has gone from one crisis to another and will continue this way. I believe that this is part of how we “earn our wings”. If we do not walk the path of the cross, how do we expect to reach the glory?

Traddom also has to be mindful and respectful that the SSPX can also learn a great deal from those of us who have stayed within the confines of the law during the last 50 years. We have not been sitting on our hands waiting to be rescued by the SSPX. There have been many holy and courageous people who have done a great deal with their gifts for the good of the Church during this time. They have much to teach us. Who is going to deny that they can learn from a Bl. Mother Teresa who lived in this Church from 1910 to 1997. She saw it all. What about St. Jose Maria Escriva, Bl. John Paul, Bl. John XXIII, Ven. Pius XII, St. Maximilian Kolbe, St. Edith Stein, Ven. Solanus Casey, Mother Angelica, Fr. Benedict Groeschel, St. Giana Molla.

This has not been a century without fruit. That fruit has come at a great price for many of us. It required great faith, a lot of work, extra dose of charity, and much creativity to respond to what God has called us to be while remaining inside the boundaries that the Church gives us. Not everyone who complied with the changes in the Church was a dumb ox who hung up his or her brain at the door. Many of us complied out of great love and a strong conviction that salvation was purchased for us by obedience, even when obedience was difficult and the authorities were unjust. That image of the obedient Son on the cross has been the life preserver for many of us during very difficult times and continues to be so.

I believe that we who have been here all along also have something to offer the SSPX. If anyone believes that the SSPX cannot learn a thing or two, either does not understand humanity or has a distorted view of a very human organization.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

 

[JReducation]

Br. J.R. - does anything happen to a prelature upon the election of a new pope? Do the prelature statues need to be re-approved? I presume the new pope can change the statues as he sees fit or suppress the prelature if he does not approve of it?

Canon Law is not very explicit as you can see from one of my previous posts. From what we have seen by way of Opus Dei, which is the only prelature that we have, it seems that life goes on as usual. Of course, since the prelature exists at the pleasure of the pope, he can make any changes he wants. The canon is very clear. The Apostolic See defines the rules.

This does not mean that it has to do so. It simply means that it can define the rules for the prelature. It can also allow the prelature freedom to write its own rules with some oversight by the Holy See.

Pope Benedict didn’t change anything when he came in. Everything remained as Bl. John Paul had set it up. I’m not inside the Opus Dei. I’m sure that he may have given them feedback on this or that. But there does not seem to be any noticeable change between the Opus Dei under Bl. John Paul and under Pope Benedict.

This is true for the universal Church and for the big orders too. When popes die and new ones are elected, this does not really affect us. The law is that everything at the Vatican ceases and all Vatican appointments are on hold, in a manner of speaking. Nothing new can be done in the inter regnum. That’s not the case with the dioceses, prelature, orders and congregations.

I remember when we had three popes in one year, 1978. Pope Paul VI, Pope John Paul I, and Pope John Paul II. In the Franciscan family of communities, which are more than 100, the only effect was that we changed the pope’s picture twice. We pulled down Pope Paul and put up Pope John Paul I. Before anyone noticed, we took it down and put up Pope John Paul II. I remember joking about how much the pope has changed these last few weeks and my friends looking at me as if I had just lost my mind.

To answer your question, up to now, there doesn’t seem to be the need for great change in the prelature when the pope dies and a new one is elected. That does not mean that it cannot happen. The pope can do whatever he wants with a prelature. Though popes don’t like to rattle the carriage too much. It really upsets people.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

 

[TheDoctor]

Canon Law is not very explicit as you can see from one of my previous posts. From what we have seen by way of Opus Dei, which is the only prelature that we have, it seems that life goes on as usual. Of course, since the prelature exists at the pleasure of the pope, he can make any changes he wants. The canon is very clear. The Apostolic See defines the rules.

This does not mean that it has to do so. It simply means that it can define the rules for the prelature. It can also allow the prelature freedom to write its own rules with some oversight by the Holy See.

Pope Benedict didn’t change anything when he came in. Everything remained as Bl. John Paul had set it up. I’m not inside the Opus Dei. I’m sure that he may have given them feedback on this or that. But there does not seem to be any noticeable change between the Opus Dei under Bl. John Paul and under Pope Benedict.

This is true for the universal Church and for the big orders too. When popes die and new ones are elected, this does not really affect us. The law is that everything at the Vatican ceases and all Vatican appointments are on hold, in a manner of speaking. Nothing new can be done in the inter regnum. That’s not the case with the dioceses, prelature, orders and congregations.

I remember when we had three popes in one year, 1978. Pope Paul VI, Pope John Paul I, and Pope John Paul II. In the Franciscan family of communities, which are more than 100, the only effect was that we changed the pope’s picture twice. We pulled down Pope Paul and put up Pope John Paul I. Before anyone noticed, we took it down and put up Pope John Paul II. I remember joking about how much the pope has changed these last few weeks and my friends looking at me as if I had just lost my mind.

To answer your question, up to now, there doesn’t seem to be the need for great change in the prelature when the pope dies and a new one is elected. That does not mean that it cannot happen. The pope can do whatever he wants with a prelature. Though popes don’t like to rattle the carriage too much. It really upsets people.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

Thank you for the information (and btw, “…how much the pope has changed these last few weeks…” is really funny).

 

[iloveangels]

Bold is mine. You have reminded me of something funny, which is only remotely related to this. We have five very good Catholic high schools in the town where I’m assigned. Three are run by the same religious community.

A parent was telling me how pleased she was with her son’s high school that she was going to send her daughter to the same high school, to which I responded, “The Piarists are excellent educators and they run very orthodox schools. They have educated several saints, a few popes and some great names.”

The woman said to me, “Oh no Brother, you misunderstood. My kids attend St. Pius X school. It’s run by priests.” :banghead:

You have one child go to school there for four years and are going to send the next child to them, but you don’t know who they are.

The Piarists run three school in one town and no one can tell them apart from any other priest. There is one SSPX chapel in town. No one knows who they are either. I would have to agree that the average Catholic doesn’t pay much attention to these finer points of distinction.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

Completely correct. There may be a few people in CAF who know the difference but most Catholics in the pews have absolutely no idea, and it doesn’t seem very important to them either. They’re either oblivious or they already have their minds made up what they want and that’s that.

 

[iloveangels]

I encountered this today, someone who was sure that that regularization of the SSPX is just what is needed to fix many abuses and problems in the Church which he sees. He was quite happy today, almost joyous. “Now you are going to see things start to turn around” was his exact comment.

People came to Mass. We had incense and said the Gloria because it was the Feast of the Immaculate Heart of Mary. Afterward we chatted about the pro-life voters information table set up by the Knights of Columbus for a few minutes, said hello to a few friends, and talked about how Bible study was going. People started lining up for confession. We went home. Life in the Parish of Our Lady of the Ordinary Form in the Archdiocise of Anywhere went on, and will continue to go on.

I fear that some of those with unrealistic expectations will feel emboldened and being to push, and thereby set themselves up for a letdown.

-Tim-

If the return of the SSPX, at least this branch of it, comes to fruition, its chief benefit in the US won’t be the increased number of SSPX clergy, or even former proponents of the SSPX that show up at parishes. Honestly, they’re probably not going to do that, preferring the EF nearly exclusively anyway. And there may not be enough of them to have that effect either at least in the US, as someone earlier pointed out. In France, the Netherlands and other places where the defection to the SSPX was much larger than here, however, this is a different story and the effects will be different.

In the USA, the effect that comes out of it will be attitude and understanding among non-SSPXers, that is the regular run of ordinary form pew Catholics. The recognition of what actually happened that caused the difficulty in the first place, and what that means for traditional concerns will be huge over time. These pew Catholics have it firmly lodged in their heads that there’s something to be gained by denying tradition, and they need to be confronted with the fact that the Church herself has NOT done that, preferring for every reason in heaven and on earth to maintain continuity.

It’s one thing to say the word “continuity” and it’s another thing entirely to contend with the practical effects of continuity. This is a move toward confronting and contending with continuity that people will not be able to deny. That’s its real merit. [Well, that and the fact that unity was meant to be maintained in the first place. Schism is bad by definition.]

The SSPX difficulty was one of disagreement with Vatican II in very specific and technical terms, however, the separation was set off explicitly by the attempt to ordain bishops in an illicit manner, not by some general emotional objection. The Church never distanced herself from the ability to talk about Vatican II in reasonable terms. Vatican II can be discussed. It can even be critically, analytically and intelligently discussed. The blanket-like rejection of tradition accompanied by a rejection of intellectual activity around the subject is not, and never has been the issue, although the SSPX event caused it to be an assumption picked up by many people–a bad assumption. There is nothing wrong with Vatican II itself. The widespread attempt to portray Vatican II as a break with continuity, a hermaneutic of rupture, from both extreme opinions, is a blatant and egregious error.

 

[iloveangels]

–continued–

The practice, often seen in the post-VII Church, to set the pronouncements of Vatican II off as some kind of “final infallible pronouncement” on all matters, to be quoted at every event is erroneous also. Worse is the tendency to invoke some kind of “fluffy” and silly spirit of Vatican II in the same way. This latter is plainly frivolous and anti-intellectualist in nature. It amounts to “don’t confuse me with facts; I have my mind made up.”

There really aren’t, that I’m aware of, any things in the Church that are untouched by Scripture and a myriad of sources. Vatican II is fine, but as many sources as practical and possible should be consulted to find the continuity that exists truly. It’s not sufficient, logical or acceptable to just whip out a sentence fragment from VII and insist that everyone within earshot consider it the final word on every and any matter.

The use of a lot of different resources is actually one of the virtues of the CCC, published in the 90s. There you will find Vatican II given a more proper place among all the other councils, teachings, traditions and Scripture passages that should be consulted when they apply to particular issues and ideas.

The reconciliation of the SSPX perhaps will help to make some of this more plain to people who teach the people in the pews. I’m hoping that the attitudes that come from this reconciliation will help this along. I think they will in the long run.

 

[tradcathconvert]

We’re getting many conflicting reports here. On the one hand, one source said that Bishop Fellay had said that he would respond in a reasonable amount of time, giving the impression that it could be soon and that the decision is in his hands. On the other, there is the talk of a general chapter. General chapters can postpone things. They usually have authority over the superior general. I don’ t know if the SSPX is structured the same way. Our general chapters give the superiors their marching orders. If this is the same, then the capitulars can revoke Bishop Fellay’s freedom to agree to the offer.

Based on what I have heard from what I consider reliable sources, it is my understanding that the General Chapter could remove Bishop Fellay from his postion as Superior General, or do the revoling that Brother JR mentions. I know some hardliners who are against the deal who hope that happens.

 

[JReducation]

I can’t promise that this will be exactly the same for the SSPX. But since the only prelature in existence is Opus Dei, we have only one point of reference. If we look a the statutes that the Holy See approved for them, we see the influence and scope of the Priestly Society of the Holy Cross, which is a society of the same canonical status as the SSPX.

Observe some interesting points. I’ll insert my comments in read and highlight in bold.
Chapter 1 – Concerning the Composition of the Priesthood and the Priestly Society of the Holy Cross: 36-43

36S1 The priesthood of the Prelature is made up of those clerics, who are promoted to sacred Orders by the Prelate according to NN 44-51 **They are incardinated in the Prelature and are dedicated to its service. *** These priests are not incardinated into the local diocese. Though we’ll see below what happens.

36S2 By the very fact of ordination, these priests become Numerary members or, according to what is to be said, below, N 37 S2, Coadjutors of the Priestly Society of the Holy Cross, which is a proper and intrinsic clerical Association of the Prelature, (which implies that priests from the diocese or one of the religous orders cannot be an ordinary provider of pastoral services within the prelature. That’s OK. Our priests are too busy anyway.)whence it constitutes one thing with it [the Prelature] and cannot be separated from it.

36S3 The Prelate of Opus Dei is the President General of the Priestly Society of the Holy Cross. The Prelate and the superior general are the same person. That makes life easier.)

37S1 In order that anyone be enabled to receive sacred Orders in service to the Prelature, it is required that he be incorporated in it definitively as a Numerary or Associate and that he will have completed the period of formation, which all lay Numeraries and those Associates who are destined to priesthood are obliged to complete; thus no one is able to be immediately incardinated into the Prelature as a Numerary or, respectively, Associate priest of Opus Dei.

37S2 So that the lay Associates of Opus Dei who undertake priesthood in service to the Prelature in the Priestly Society of the Holy Cross may be distinguished, by law from the Associate members of the Society mentioned in NN 58 and following, [the former] are called Coadjutors or simply Associate priests of Opus Dei.

38 **These priests perform diligently their primary work which is the spiritual and ecclesiastical formation of and particular care of the souls of other faithful of both Sections of Opus Dei. ** (Ahh . . . important. These priests are not for the direct benefit of the universal Church, but for the benefit of the prelature. It stands to reason that prelature priests have very little, if any, influence in the Church outside of the prelature.)

39 Priests of Opus Dei will exercise their own ministries of priestly Order with other faithful,(Wait! Here comes what I said above. These priests can serve people in the local diocese, outside the prelature.)** always with ministerial licenses according to the norm of law.** (Hold up. They must have license (faculties) according to the norm of common law means from the local diocesan bishop. So they can only minister to people outside of the prelature, if the diocesan bishop grants them faculties.

40** If, **by reason of ecclesiastical position or personal competence, **these priests are invited to the presbyterial Council or some office of a diocese, they ought to participate as they are able, with the prior permission from the Prelate of Opus Dei or his Vicar. ** IF they are invited to participate in the priests council or synod. The local diocese does not have to include them. But that’s where pastoral decisions, laws and policies are made, such as CITH, even though the bishop has the last word. If you’re not invited, how much influence will you have?

41 In all dioceses in which they exercise their ministry, **these priests are connected by a bond of apostolic charity with other priests of the clergy of each diocese. ** (Does this mean that they can’t call us “Concilarists” or “NO priests” or that they may have to acknowledge some of the good that we’ve done during the last 50 years and that we have not been sitting on our hands? If not, how is apostolic charity defined and who would want to include someone who bashes you at every turn, not that the mainstream are innocent of bashing. Bashing is something that both sides do very well. If you can’t get along, then you can’t be part of the same bodies. Since the diocesan priests and regular priests make up the priests council, the deaneries and the synods, then they have all of the influence and the attention of the bishop. If the boys can’t play nicely, they can’t be put in the same schoolyard. In which case, the priests of the prelature are excluded.)

Does someone see something I may be missing? Remember, this is Opus Dei. The Holy Father may decide to do this differently with the SSPX. As I said, Opus Dei is the only prelature that we have as a point of reference. The orders are not a good point of reference, because they are completely different and the congregations are another creature with their own system of government.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

 

[Brooklyn]

I’m coming into this thread late, and I admit I haven’t read all through it. Some of the posts are extremely wordy and just too much to go through. But I would like to make a couple of comments.

First of all, there is only ONE personal prelature in the entire Catholic church at this time, and that is Opus Dei. Ironically enough, personal prelature is a creation of Vatican II. From PRESBYTERORUM ORDINIS, issued on December 7, 1965, paragraph 10:

Where a real apostolic spirit requires it, not only should a better distribution of priests be brought about but there should also be favored such particular pastoral works as are necessary in any region or nation anywhere on earth. To accomplish this purpose there should be set up international seminaries, special personal dioceses or prelatures (vicariates), and so forth, by means of which, according to their particular statutes and always saving the right of bishops, priests may be trained and incardinated for the good of the whole Church.

According to ECCLESIAE SANCTAE issued by Pope Paul VI in 1966:

Moreover, to carry on special pastoral or missionary work for various regions or social groups which are in need of special assistance, prelatures composed of priests from the secular clergy equipped with special training can be usefully established by the Apostolic See. These prelatures are under the government of their own prelate and possess their own statutes.

It will be in the competence of this prelate to establish and direct a national or international seminary in which students are suitably instructed. The same prelate has the right to incardinate the same students and to promote them to sacred orders under the title of service for the prelature.

Am I missing something, or does that seem exactly what the SSPX would be looking for? I don’t think for a moment that they would want to be under the authority of any bishop other than their own. The Summorum Pontificum issued by the Holy Father in 2007 protects them as far as the Traditional Mass is concerned from any bishops who might want to take it way from them, but I don’t think they would want to answer to bishops in any other way, either. The only one Bishop Fellay wants to answer to is the Holy Father. From his statements, it would seem the Pope is the only one he trusts. This may not be true for the other 3 bishops, but that will have to dealt with in due course, as Bishop Fellay has said.

When Opus Dei was made a Personal Prelature, no one thought of it as a punishment. Opus Dei has a unique work and John Paul II though it was the best situation for them to answer just to him. From what I’ve read here, that some think that the SSPX is being punished by the offer of Personal Prelature from the Holy Father, and that being directly under the control of the Holy Father is somehow worse than being under a bishop. It seems to me that the Holy Father is recognizing the unique role of the SSPX in the Church and what it is they have to offer. Just as Opus Dei is unique in its mission, so I think is the SSPX. I think it’s safe to say that the reason we still have the Traditional Mass is because the SSPX refused to give it up.

My own opinion, which admittedly isn’t worth much, is that the Holy Father has done exactly the right thing in this matter, and it is most certainly a result of much prayer and the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

 

[JReducation]

I’m coming into this thread late, and I admit I haven’t read all through it. Some of the posts are extremely wordy and just too much to go through. But I would like to make a couple of comments.

How did you get the impression that anyone feels that an prelature is a punishment? On the contrary. Some have argued that it’s a reward.

I said that it was not a reward. I did not say that it’s a punishment. I said that if you ask any religious superior general, we would tell you that we would not want to be a prelature. As we are, we are free of the influence of the local bishops and of the Holy See. We’re autonomous. That’s not saying that a prelature is a punishment.

I think a prelature does exactly what the SSPX needs. It provides it with room to grow and exercise its apostolate. It also does what the bishops need. It keeps the SSPX contained, if it follows the model of the Opus Dei as I pointed out above from their statutes. It provides a win win situation for everyone. Bishops and SSPX superiors who work well together are free to do so and those who do not can keep their distance from each other.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

 

[Brooklyn]

How did you get the impression that anyone feels that an prelature is a punishment? On the contrary. Some have argued that it’s a reward.

I said that it was not a reward. I did not say that it’s a punishment. I said that if you ask any religious superior general, we would tell you that we would not want to be a prelature. As we are, we are free of the influence of the local bishops and of the Holy See. We’re autonomous. That’s not saying that a prelature is a punishment.

I think a prelature does exactly what the SSPX needs. It provides it with room to grow and exercise its apostolate. It also does what the bishops need. It keeps the SSPX contained, if it follows the model of the Opus Dei as I pointed out above from their statutes. It provides a win win situation for everyone. Bishops and SSPX superiors who work well together are free to do so and those who do not can keep their distance from each other.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

It is statements such as bolded above “It keeps the SSPX contained.” Not to be disrespectful, but that makes it sound like the SSPX is an infectious disease that we have to keep away from people. No one thought that when Opus Dei was made a personal prelature it was done to keep it “contained.” Granted, Opus Dei did not come into conflict with the Vatican as the SSPX did, but Opus Dei also did not feel its existence was threatened as the SSPX did. I am certainly not arguing in favor of the split, but that was the reason Archbishop LeFebvre did what he did. Rightly or wrongly, he felt that if he was not allowed to ordain his own bishops, the SSPX would be destroyed. The split was canonical, not doctrinal, and I think that is why the Holy Father has worked for so many years to bring them back into union with the Vatican.

I absolutely agree that it is a win win situation for everyone involved, and it will also separate the men from the boys, i.e., those who truly wish to be in union with the Vatican and the sedevacantists. If and when the SSPX comes into full union with the Vatican, it will do so as a strong spiritual arm of the Church, no doubt in my mind.

 

[JReducation]

It is statements such as bolded above “It keeps the SSPX contained.” Not to be disrespectful, but that makes it sound like the SSPX is an infectious disease that we have to keep away from people. No one thought that when Opus Dei was made a personal prelature it was done to keep it “contained.” Granted, Opus Dei did not come into conflict with the Vatican as the SSPX did, but Opus Dei also did not feel its existence was threatened as the SSPX did. I am certainly not arguing in favor of the split, but that was the reason Archbishop LeFebvre did what he did. Rightly or wrongly, he felt that if he was not allowed to ordain his own bishops, the SSPX would be destroyed. The split was canonical, not doctrinal, and I think that is why the Holy Father has worked for so many years to bring them back into union with the Vatican.

I absolutely agree that it is a win win situation for everyone involved, and it will also separate the men from the boys, i.e., those who truly wish to be in union with the Vatican and the sedevacantists. If and when the SSPX comes into full union with the Vatican, it will do so as a strong spiritual arm of the Church, no doubt in my mind.

Did you look at the statutes of Opus Dei that I posted above? That’s what I mean by contained. Opus Dei is very contained. It has nothing to do with being a decease. It has to do with the nature of a prelature, unless the Holy Father decides to change the paradigm, which he can do. If he keeps the current paradigm, yes the SSPX will be contained and yes, it will make many bishops very happy. They will not be obliged to include the SSPX in their diocesan councils, deaneries or synods, as they must do with priests who belong to religious communities. They cannot exclude the regular priests or the society priests, such as the FSSP. They can exclude the prelature priests.

On the flip side, if the bishop and the SSPX superior get along well, the bishop is free to invite the SSPX and the superior is free to grant them permission to participate in diocesan life and have an influence outside of the prelature.

It think it’s a dream to say that the SSPX is going to come in as a power house, because it’s not realistic. It’s very small and most Catholics are comfortable where they’re at.

It’s also very offensive to make such a statement as if to suggest that the rest of us who have been around during the last 50 years have been doing nothing but sitting on our hands waiting to be rescued by the SSPX. Over the last 50 years, thousands of religious and clergy have quietly made significant contributions to the Church and some very noticeable, such as Bl. Mother Teresa. Now, that’s a power horse. The woman left behind three religious congregation with more than 5,000 religious. Ninety percent of them are converts from Hinduism and Islam who started as volunteers with no intention of becoming Catholic, much less joining a religious community

The Franciscans of the Renewal are another power horse. They began with six Capuchin Friars. They’re almost 200 of them and many of them were thugs and are now consecrated religious thanks to the influence of the six friars who walked the streets of Harlem and the Bronx and stood on the corner playing their guitars.

Does the SSPX have something to offer? Very much so. It has a charism that is a great gift of the Holy Spirit. But it will not save the Church by itself and it can learn a great deal from those of us who have been here for 50 years. We should not overestimate them or underestimate them. The hope is that they will fit into the Church’s structure and bring a much needed gift into the Church for those who need what God offers through them. And that they will be open to learning from the rest of us as well. For this to work, it has to be a mutually enriching relationship.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

 

[Moore11]

Based on what I have heard from what I consider reliable sources, it is my understanding that the General Chapter could remove Bishop Fellay from his postion as Superior General, or do the revoling that Brother JR mentions. I know some hardliners who are against the deal who hope that happens.

Lately the rumors have been that we will wait until July for an answer and that it wont be a full answer but that it will be a dialogue again. I dont know how many times we have to hear the terms “final offer” and “soon”

One report says final offer the other says the first in the next step of negotiations. Some reporters may need to realize that words mean things.
I realize that this may drag on a while longer but I also realize that it could happen any day until we hear from the SSPX themselves.

I would think if Fellay thought that he was going to be harnessed by a general chapter he would just sign this and be done with it.

Personally I think it is hard adn complicated to set up a reconciliation and personal prelature and I think the Holy See would give Fellay time to lead his people. The SSPX has been pretty quiet the past couple of weeks. Lets see what happens and pray for the best.

 

[tradcathconvert]

Lately the rumors have been that we will wait until July for an answer and that it wont be a full answer but that it will be a dialogue again. I dont know how many times we have to hear the terms “final offer” and “soon”

One report says final offer the other says the first in the next step of negotiations. Some reporters may need to realize that words mean things.
I realize that this may drag on a while longer but I also realize that it could happen any day until we hear from the SSPX themselves.

I would think if Fellay thought that he was going to be harnessed by a general chapter he would just sign this and be done with it.

Personally I think it is hard adn complicated to set up a reconciliation and personal prelature and I think the Holy See would give Fellay time to lead his people. The SSPX has been pretty quiet the past couple of weeks. Lets see what happens and pray for the best.

Great post. Thank you.