Vatican Cracks Down On Dress Code

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I agree with the consensus.

Vatican City is the site of the center of the Church. It has one of the most historical worship sites in the world.

It is also a country, which can establish rules of attire. I have to dress appropriately for many occasions and locations. A vacation is not an excuse to run around in your bikini and shorts everywhere you go unless you are on a beach.

I will be married in a Catholic church in November. We may not necessarily kick people out who don’t dress appropriately, but the pastor might.

What is more sad: that the Vatican has reinforced standing policy, or that people are all but totally ignorant of etiquette?
 
Thanks for the heads up. 👍 I know it varies. Once when just out of curiosity I was looking at other churches I found a PCUSA pastor telling me I would have to wear a suit and tie. That surprised me given PCUSA’s reputation for being more liberal. But then my local LCMS which is of course a more conservative denomination espouses appropriate casual dress. TEC, UCC, UMC and DoC in my area all allow shorts. So far, emphasis on so far, the Catholic parishes I attend still allow shorts. But yeah I remember first weaing jeans in the 70s. You know those dreadful post Vat 2 yrs! 😉
 
I live in a warm climate and wear nice shorts to Mass all the time with a nice shirt. I’m not the only one. I have never worn flip flops but have seen ppl in them and it doesn’t bother me in the least. Why should it when we’re all there for the Lord. Jesus and His disciples walked around in sandals and you’re gonna ban all shorts? That’s ludicrous. It’s like saying Jesus would turn away someone in shorts. Sorry but IMHO that’s going to far. If the ban ever goes worldwide, that’s for sure when I walk out the door. But at least for now guess the Pope won’t be seeing me anytime in the summer. Peace.
Well, Matt, it used to be that common sense was a little more common and people’s understanding of things like appropriate dress, speech, and manners was more common as well.

Unfortunately, you have the extremists (on both sides). You have the people who think that God ‘doesn’t care’ about how we present ourselves to Him, and you have the people who think that God has a more rigorous ‘dress code’ than the Pope does. Extremes, agreed?

Also unfortunately, when Joe Normal and Jane Average want to get advice on proper attire, you have the EXTREMISTS arguing.

Extremist “casual” : It is LUDICROUS to even THINK about dress at Mass. You should be focused on God and He doesn’t care. People who talk about dressing up hate the poor and are only concerning with looking ‘better’ than everybody else.’

Extremist “rigorous”: People are slobs and the whole question of appropriate dress today is a scandal and a disgrace. Women should be in DRESSES and men in SUITS, and anything else shows disrespect to God."

Thing is, most of us ‘normal people’ would (at least decades ago, when EVERYBODY understood that certain occasions, such as going to Mass, were a little more ‘special’ than other occasions, such as mowing the lawn, having a picnic, or cleaning the garage) have KNOWN exactly what proper attire for an occasion was. Not the silly ‘casuals’ screaming, “You want people to wear their best, that means TUXES and BALLGOWNS, how silly”, nor yet the “rigorous” insisting, “Women must wear ankle length dresses with no skin showing anywhere and men must wear suit, coat, vest and tie, whether it is 110 in the shade or not”. People knew (because they had learned through tradition and carried it down, and this was considered normal for society, and therefore SOCIETY knew) what “Sunday attire” meant. The dressmakers and haberdashers carried “Sunday dresses” and “Sunday suits”, magazines showed pictures and patterns for “Sunday clothes”, newspapers and even TV and books had descriptions of NORMAL, EVERYDAY people and what they wore to Church, etc… People had very specific ‘wear’ for ‘leisure’, for ‘work’, for ‘dress’, etc. And this meant everybody, even the ‘poor’. Because one cared about everything–not just ‘dress’, but words, and thoughts, and actions. . .one understood that we don’t live in a vacuum, that we have to ‘walk the walk’ as well as ‘talk the talk’. It’s EASY to just SAY "I love God’ (hearts and flowers) but it’s much, much harder to SHOW that one loves God. Too many people ‘say with their lips’ "I love you God’ but that’s all they do. They don’t do actions which show that God is anything more than any other ‘activity’ in their life. They don’t show with their appearance, their words, or their actions that a visit with God on Sunday at Mass is ANY different from going to the store, or cleaning the attic. And one of the effects of their not ‘showing’ the difference is that they don’t feel or understand that there IS a difference!! Of course, this is a very ‘casual’ society in the East and Left (I mean West) Coast U.S.A. where people don’t tend to dress, act, or speak any differently whether they are hard at work in a professional office, attending a landmark function like a graduation, or a family anniversary, or raking leaves --the same kind of casual ‘grubby’ wear is worn to all, and the same kind of casual, slangy, even ‘profane’ speech and gesture has become prevalent.

Luckily there are still areas of the country where people still preserve the ‘old’ traditions or, if they have lapsed, are now trying to revive them. Hopefully in the next few years, Matt, they’ll trickle on down to your area.
 
I agree with the consensus.

Vatican City is the site of the center of the Church. It has one of the most historical worship sites in the world.

It is also a country, which can establish rules of attire. I have to dress appropriately for many occasions and locations. A vacation is not an excuse to run around in your bikini and shorts everywhere you go unless you are on a beach.

I will be married in a Catholic church in November. We may not necessarily kick people out who don’t dress appropriately, but the pastor might.

What is more sad: that the Vatican has reinforced standing policy, or that people are all but totally ignorant of etiquette?
 
Well you can help with that brother, you are my brother right? Brothers help the other member’s of their family, at least ones with any love in them.
Of course. I’m a brother of all Christians. But I’m not an optometrist if the problem is with your eyes. 🙂 And I certainly can’t help ya if you are momentarily distracted but then can’t refocus your thoughts on Him and not me while you’re in His presence. God bless and peace!
 
I will be married in a Catholic church in November. We may not necessarily kick people out who don’t dress appropriately, but the pastor might.
You should probably put on your invitations jacket and tie required or whatever you are requiring. But I doubt shorts will be a problem if you’re marrying in Indiana in Nov. God bless you and yours on your upcoming marriage and all the best.
 
Of course. I’m a brother of all Christians. But I’m not an optometrist if the problem is with your eyes. 🙂 And I certainly can’t help ya if you are momentarily distracted but then can’t refocus your thoughts on Him and not me while you’re in His presence. God bless and peace!
Oh but you certainly can help, how you dress is completely in your own power, all it requires is a little bit of consideration so that you do not become a stumbling block to others.
 
most of us ‘normal people’ would (at least decades ago, when EVERYBODY understood that certain occasions, such as going to Mass, were a little more ‘special’ than other occasions, such as mowing the lawn, having a picnic, or cleaning the garage) have KNOWN exactly what proper attire for an occasion was… Of course, this is a very ‘casual’ society in the East and Left (I mean West) Coast U.S.A. where people don’t tend to dress, act, or speak any differently whether they are hard at work in a professional office, attending a landmark function like a graduation, or a family anniversary, or raking leaves --the same kind of casual ‘grubby’ wear is worn to all, and the same kind of casual, slangy, even ‘profane’ speech and gesture has become prevalent.

Luckily there are still areas of the country where people still preserve the ‘old’ traditions or, if they have lapsed, are now trying to revive them. Hopefully in the next few years, Matt, they’ll trickle on down to your area.
I must be an abnormal person. Because I wouldn’t wear my church shorts to mow the lawn, clean the garage or rake the leaves. I would to a family gathering. But I have grubbier shorts for those other occasions. I’ve never heard anyone utter profanity or seen a profane gesture used in any church I’ve ever attended.
 
I think it’s a good idea. People should know better when visiting such a holy city. Though I must admit, it has been in the 100’s here where I live for most of the summer and I have attended Mass in sleeveless summer shirts.😉
 
I live in a warm climate and wear nice shorts to Mass all the time with a nice shirt. I’m not the only one. I have never worn flip flops but have seen ppl in them and it doesn’t bother me in the least. Why should it when we’re all there for the Lord. Jesus and His disciples walked around in sandals and you’re gonna ban all shorts? That’s ludicrous. It’s like saying Jesus would turn away someone in shorts. Sorry but IMHO that’s going to far. If the ban ever goes worldwide, that’s for sure when I walk out the door. But at least for now guess the Pope won’t be seeing me anytime in the summer. Peace.
Really? Your faith is based on what you can and cannot wear? You understand that faith is not a superficial commitment? You realize that regardless of what I wear, my faith is still in tact? I mean, do you understand how ridiculous your argument is?
 
You know, that’s an interesting thought.

Just how much are we responsible for being occasions of sin to others? (or aiding an occasion of sin by ‘omitting’ to do anything about it?)

Suppose that Mr. X (male) goes to church and Ms. Y (female) is there wearing a micromini halter dress, or Daisy Duke short shorts and a halter top.

No matter how hard Mr. X tries to keep from being ‘distracted’, the fact is, what Ms. Y. is wearing is ‘provocative’ to a point where it would be considered ‘immodest dress.’

So Ms. Y. does bear some ‘responsibility’ for Mr. X’s struggle to maintain chastity, doesn’t she?

Nobody is saying Ms. Y has to wear a burqa or even that she has to wear "little house on the prairie’ attire. One ‘extreme’ doesn’t cancel out another–and the micromini or halter ARE extreme attire (actually a LACK of attire).

What we wear, how we present ourselves in dress (and words and actions) isn’t limited to its effects on US, but also has an impact on OTHERS. It is far more important than the very recent ‘grubbing’ and ‘blurring’ trend of a certain segment of Western Culture thinks it is.

And as Scripture tells us, we need to take care that we do not cause difficulties to our brothers and sisters.

Apparently one heck of a lot of people (or so we are told) would find it extremely, EXTREMELY difficult to sacrifice their personal ‘comfort’ and their personal ‘view’ and their personal ‘decisions’ and wear a little ‘more’ clothing than they 'want to. And that frankly makes me sad.

I mean, when one group (the group being affected by immodest dress) is told that THEY should do all the WORK to keep from being ‘affected’, because those wearing the immodest clothes aren’t going to stop, is that right? Is it fair?

If you were in a situation where you were uncomfortable, and were told, “Well, nobody is going to change the situation, YOU have to do all the adjusting because it’s YOUR problem, not ours”. . .how would you feel?

IOW. . .the people having to ‘see’ the immodest dress of others have to do all the “work” to overcome the occasion of sin that the immodest dress causes–meanwhile, those who WEAR the immodest clothing don’t have to make any changes, don’t have to try to adjust THEIR attitude, pretty much do as they please and feel perfectly happy and justified. . .and just keep on sinning–but the ones being ‘sinned against’ are put in the position of being big bad villains?

Yep, it’s a crazy world out there. . .
 
That’s nonsense. Covering one’s head is one thing, though archaic, but a woman in slacks exposes nothing and is for that reason more modest than a woman in a dress. Some women can’t wear skirts because of heavy hips or because of varicose veins or such.

The point is modesty, any way a woman wants to do it - whether with pants or a skirt touching the knee.
 
I think it’s a good idea. People should know better when visiting such a holy city. Though I must admit, it has been in the 100’s here where I live for most of the summer and I have attended Mass in sleeveless summer shirts.😉
I’ll have faith you weren’t a stumbling block for anyone or a plank in anyone’s eyes Deb. 😃
 
Really? Your faith is based on what you can and cannot wear? You understand that faith is not a superficial commitment? You realize that regardless of what I wear, my faith is still in tact? I mean, do you understand how ridiculous your argument is?
No because my faith is stronger than to worry about what you or anyone sitting next to me in the pew is wearing. I have more important things to concentrate on in my walk with Christ and to focus or re-focus on in church. If my heart and mind is in the right place, and it should be when I am there to worship God, I can re-focus even if I am momentarily distracted. I do though fit Tantum’s definition of extreme abnormal remember? 🙂 Peace.
 
I agree with Cmatt. I have seen people complaining about this on other threads. Imho worry about the plank in your own eye before you worry about the splinter in your neighbors.
I don’t have a plank in my eye nor does my wife or children. My wife veils and wears a dress to Mass. My son dresses accordingly as well, no shorts. This isn’t about judging others, its about showing our bretheran they are wrong, which they are.
 
My wife veils and wears a dress to Mass. My son dresses accordingly as well, no shorts.
Fine. It’s simply a matter of modesty. My wife wears slacks to church and a long sleeved blouse. I wear a shirt and tie. The particulars don’t matter as long as modesty is observed or the wishes of the particular church are observed.
 
Fine. It’s simply a matter of modesty. My wife wears slacks to church and a long sleeved blouse. I wear a shirt and tie. The particulars don’t matter as long as modesty is observed or the wishes of the particular church are observed.
Well at least I’m not the only one who would be asked to leave (name removed by moderator)'s wife’s church.
 
Well at least I’m not the only one who would be asked to leave (name removed by moderator)'s wife’s church.
If we were asked to leave because my wife was modestly dressed in dark slacks as she usually is (a 69 year old woman doesn’t exactly have the legs of a pantyhose model) we’d leave that church gladly.
 
No because my faith is stronger than to worry about what you or anyone sitting next to me in the pew is wearing. I have more important things to concentrate on in my walk with Christ and to focus or re-focus on in church. If my heart and mind is in the right place, and it should be when I am there to worship God, I can re-focus even if I am momentarily distracted. I do though fit Tantum’s definition of extreme abnormal remember? 🙂 Peace.
What you personally think is not the subject of this thread. We should be obedient to the Holy Father. It’s as simple as that.

When we go to Church we are standing before God. We can be casual elsewhere.

God bless,
Ed
 
If we were asked to leave because my wife was modestly dressed in dark slacks as she usually is (a 69 year old woman doesn’t exactly have the legs of a pantyhose model) we’d leave that church gladly.
Let’s be careful to remember that the Church being spoken of is an Orthodox Church.
We do agree, do we not, that a Church has the right to make ‘rules’ for its members and indeed ask that ‘visitors’ abide by those rules, right?

For example, we ask that non-Catholics do not receive communion in our Church, and we have a right to do this. The Orthodox Church is free to establish a dress code and to mandate that members (and guests) adhere to the code, right? So Rich, as a guest, you and your wife would be expected (and this is good manners in all spheres too) to adhere to the rules of the ‘host.’. I wanted to make sure that y’all remembered that this is NOT a case of a Catholic Church that would ‘turn Rich’s wife away’.

Myself, I’m kinda big on rules and especially in regard to Catholicism, in following them. So if a Church has a ‘rule’ regarding dress, rather than get bent out of shape because their requirements weren’t something that I normally adhered to or agreed with, if I needed to attend to fulfill my Mass obligation, I would (cheerfully) adhere to the dress rule. I wouldn’t get all, “But I’m perfectly modest in my SLACKS and I am not going to follow your dumb rule, wipe the dust from my sandals I’m outta here”. If I DIDN’T need to attend that Church, then I might in private conversation speak of how “you know, that Church has a dress code where I couldn’t wear slacks, I just can’t understand that kind of thing but oh well, takes all kinds and if they’re happy, good on them”

I mean, we can have a disagreement over whether slacks on women are, or are not, appropriate attire for Mass, but we don’t need to get ballistic if a given Church says, “Here you may not wear X”, right? If we don’t want to follow the rules, don’t go to the Church. If you DO go to the Church, then follow the rules. Simple as that
 
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