Vatican debunks reports of female cardinals [CC]

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The Vatican has dismissed reports that Pope Francis could name women as cardinals.Following the October 31 announcement that the Pope would elevate new members of the College of …

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Between this and the “polling” story, it seems that the Vatican’s Press Office is getting a little faster and better at addressing media distortion 👍
 
One marvels that such arrant nonsense even requires debunking.
 
Father Lombardi said “theologically and theoretically, it is possible,” but I guarantee that if this ever happens it will lead to the first female anti-pope. The left would never be satisfied with anything less. Radical feminists are obsessed with this, the modern-day forbidden fruit.
 
Good! I hope that is the end of the threads on this…
 
The idea that a woman can be a cardinal is fascinating; it is so cause it is an idea in my 56 years that I would of never thought of as a Catholic. I support women becoming heads of Vatican departments and they should be more represented in the running of the church at all levels cause the church is all of us…BUT…it never occurred to me that this has enough basis even to make it as a rumour.

The question for me then…is I understand that Catholic priest are the only ones who can become bishops…but then I have never studied the emergence and evolution of the offices of cardinals and popes…is cardinal a bishop like position or is it a position of executive leadership? Is the cardinal position an office or a person?

Appreciate getting up to speed on how cardinals came about and if there role is ministerial or executive leadership (office)…

Thanks.

Bruce Ferguson
Trickster
 
trickster said:
The idea that a woman can be a cardinal is fascinating; it is so cause it is an idea in my 56 years that I would of never thought of as a Catholic. I support women becoming heads of Vatican departments and they should be more represented in the running of the church at all levels cause the church is all of us…BUT…it never occurred to me that this has enough basis even to make it as a rumour.

The question for me then…is I understand that Catholic priest are the only ones who can become bishops…but then I have never studied the emergence and evolution of the offices of cardinals and popes…is cardinal a bishop like position or is it a position of executive leadership? Is the cardinal position an office or a person?

Appreciate getting up to speed on how cardinals came about and if there role is ministerial or executive leadership (office)…

Thanks.

Bruce Ferguson
Trickster
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The sacrament of Holy Orders consists of the orders of Priest, Deacon, and Bishop. The Cardinalate is not a part of the sacrament, but an honor granted by the pope. Cardinals are often named as administrators of Vatican offices, and of course, Cardinals elect the pope, who is normally drawn from among their own ranks.

A woman cardinal would not be eligible for either Holy Orders or the papacy. But there are those who would like to see one anyway, thinking it would provide a wedge opening to female priests. It wouldn’t. It won’t happen.
 
JimG said:
The sacrament of Holy Orders consists of the orders of Priest, Deacon, and Bishop. The Cardinalate is not a part of the sacrament, but an honor granted by the pope. Cardinals are often named as administrators of Vatican offices, and of course, Cardinals elect the pope, who is normally drawn from among their own ranks.

A woman cardinal would not be eligible for either Holy Orders or the papacy. But there are those who would like to see one anyway, thinking it would provide a wedge opening to female priests. It wouldn’t. It won’t happen.
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Hi JimG (and yes Robert I will follow up with your reference)…thanks to both of you for giving me this information.

Jim, when you say that “the cardinalate is not a part of the sacrament, but an honor granted by the pope” I guess this is where the issue becomes theoretically and theologically possible. However, if the pope seat is Peter’s seat and within our apostolic tradition, would it not be consistent then to say that we can have female cardinals in the sense you talked about but female cardinals could not - via the deposit of faith, etc. - be eligible for the pope position as the pope position is a bishop’s position.

In otherwords, why not appoint women cardinals as heads of adminstrators’ of Vatican offices, of which i personally think we need more of…

This is a fascinating discussion…thanks for the info.

Trickster
Bruce Ferguson
 
From Robert’s link:
The person nominated must possess the qualifications of a bishop (Council of Trent, Sess. XXIV, De ref., c. i)
How does this jive with Fr. Lombardi’s quote about a woman cardinal being “theologically and theoretically” possible?
 
Suudy said:
From Robert’s link:
The person nominated must possess the qualifications of a bishop (Council of Trent, Sess. XXIV, De ref., c. i)
How does this jive with Fr. Lombardi’s quote about a woman cardinal being “theologically and theoretically” possible?
​
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Because the prerequisites are set by Canon Law (which has changed since the Council of Trent); there is nothing theologically specified in any Church doctrine or dogma preventing women cardinals and the Pope can dispensed with canon law at any time for any individual. So the stipulation that they have to be priests can be dispensed with if the Pope so chooses. There have been in history; cardinals who were not priests. So it is theologically and theoretically possible to have a married woman cardinal.​
 
gilliam said:
Because the prerequisites are set by Canon Law (which has changed since the Council of Trent); there is nothing theologically specified in any Church doctrine or dogma preventing women cardinals and the Pope can dispensed with canon law at any time for any individual. So the stipulation that they have to be priests can be dispensed with if the Pope so chooses. There have been in history; cardinals who were not priests. So it is theologically and theoretically possible to have a married woman cardinal.
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What isn’t clear is whether the ruling from the Council of Trent was a discipline or a dogma. What parts of Trent are discipline/law and which parts are dogma?
 
Suudy said:
What isn’t clear is whether the ruling from the Council of Trent was a discipline or a dogma. What parts of Trent are discipline/law and which parts are dogma?
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Cardinal is an honorific office of the Church which is purely part of the structural governance. The position has no relation to the sacrament of Holy Orders or any facet of faith or morals. Jesus did not institute the office of Cardinal and it is not found in the Orthodox Churches, nor the primitive Church. It has undergone much evolution in the Roman Church. Since we know it has nothing to do with sacramental theology, faith and morals, Sacred Scripture or Holy Tradition, and it is totally man-made, we can be confident that this is a disciplinary matter and not doctrinal. It is therefore changeable. What changes are effected are more or less entirely up to the Roman Pontiff. So the question of women being admitted to the rank of Cardinal is squarely on the Pope’s shoulders.

That being said, any Pope who decides to change this discipline should be prepared to answer some hard questions about the clerical nature of the office. Nobody has ever been cardinal and ineligible for Holy Orders. The College always selects the next Pope from their own ranks and therefore women would be second-class citizens in the College. There are currently no lay Cardinals at all, not even men. So admitting women to the College would be a significant rupture with small-t tradition.
 
trickster said:
Hi JimG (and yes Robert I will follow up with your reference)…thanks to both of you for giving me this information.

Jim, when you say that “the cardinalate is not a part of the sacrament, but an honor granted by the pope” I guess this is where the issue becomes theoretically and theologically possible. However, if the pope seat is Peter’s seat and within our apostolic tradition, would it not be consistent then to say that we can have female cardinals in the sense you talked about but female cardinals could not - via the deposit of faith, etc. - be eligible for the pope position as the pope position is a bishop’s position.

In otherwords, why not appoint women cardinals as heads of adminstrators’ of Vatican offices, of which i personally think we need more of…

This is a fascinating discussion…thanks for the info.

Trickster
Bruce Ferguson
Click to expand...
I haven’t read the link that was posted by Robert Bay; that would be a better source of information. In theory, women could probably be named to Vatican posts without being Cardinals. Or with some–a lot of–changes to the Cardinalate, “lay” unordained cardinals might be a possibility. But a two tier cardinalate would be a stretch, and would lead to confusion on the part of ordinary Catholics, not to mention the press. Trust me, it’s not going to happen.
 
It has been postulated that this response by the Vatican Press Office is “laying the groundwork” for a decision in the future. It is sad because all Lombardi has offered is the truth of the matter. It is true that female Cardinals are possible, and it is true that they will not happen this February. But an admittance of truth is good enough for some as an announcement of concrete plans… we shall see where this pontificate actually leads us; I think some liberals will be surprised.
 
Catholic_Press said:
The Vatican has dismissed reports that Pope Francis could name women as cardinals.Following the October 31 announcement that the Pope would elevate new members of the College of …

More…
Click to expand...
What is it with people in the First World taking all of this wayyyy out of context?

Is the media so desperate to push its liberal agenda they’ll resort to sloppy, inaccurate reporting to accomplish this goal? :o
 
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