Vatican delegate expects Holy See to approve Medjugorje apparitions [CWN]
- Status
S
Samwise21
Guest
Medjugorje seems to be controverted if you really do research into what exactly the so called apparitions are supposed to have said.
From the website detailing the ‘messages’:
From the website detailing the ‘messages’:
The Holy Mother told Sister Lucia to obey the authority of the magisterium and not to try to interpret the Fatima messages herself, so suddenly the Holy Mother has a change of character and tells this kid to undermine Vatican authority, in doing so going against her own Immaculate nature by cooperating in a person’s sin (i.e. sin of disobedience) by ordering them to commit it?
O
otjm
Guest
For a long timeNow
And possibly
A
abucs
Guest
Yeah, me too. May the church rigidly be a pursuer of truth.
Now
And possibly
D
DignumEtJustum
Guest
How could this be possible after it’s been denounced so many times? Unless something new is to occur with the supposed apparitions and is right now then I wouldn’t hold my breath.
O
otjm
Guest
I don’t know what findings you are speaking of - perhaps you have followed it much more closely than I. My recollection is that Rome took over the matter from either the first or second bishop in that diocese. and Rome has never made any official statement.
there have been a number of clergy who have said they do not believe there were apparitions; but those are not official statements as far as I know.
I know that there have been repeated statements from Rome that priests are not to make official pilgrimages, and that no one in the Church is authorized to make anything official. But that is not a statement that Mary has never appeared there. Those rules were laid down to make it clear to the laity that there had been no official statement.
P
pianistclare
Guest
This is kind of jarring. Earlier this year many on CAF were “reporting” that Pope Francis would come out and say it was bogus all along.
There are many that find it less than credible.
I have no idea what he will do.
The one seer claims to have spoken to Our Lady tens of thousands of times.
Seems daft to me. But I guess we’ll soon see.
There are many that find it less than credible.
I have no idea what he will do.
The one seer claims to have spoken to Our Lady tens of thousands of times.
Seems daft to me. But I guess we’ll soon see.
M
mikekle
Guest
Well, God says we can tell by the fruits they produce…so if many people are still going and converting, even now, that would appear to be good fruit.
C
commenter
Guest
True. but obedience to the local bishop is also a good fruit.
J
Joe_5859
Guest
There are 3 designations for a private revelation that the Church can make:
*]constat de supernaturalitate - It can be confirmed that it is of supernatural origin *
*]non constat de supernaturalitate - It cannot be confirmed that it is of supernatural origin *
]constat de non supernaturalitate - It can be confirmed that it is not of supernatural origin *
People tend to conflate the second and third determinations as both being a condemnation, but that is not the case. As far as I understand it, the local bishop has only ever put Medjugorje in the second category.
Even so, there are cases in the past where an apparition has been condemned or undetermined that were later approved. I don’t believe the reverse has ever happened, though (i.e. that an approved apparition was later condemned).
We should also note that the Vatican did not impose itself on the situation but rather the local bishop requested the Vatican’s involvement to definitively settle the matter.
A lot of people have strong feelings about Medjugorje one way or the other. I think we should all be open to whatever the Church ultimately decides. Clearly it is not clear cut or else the determination would have been made long ago.**
C
commenter
Guest
Not in disagreement, but alongside your comment…
There have been Marian apparitions that were approved, along with accompanying private revelations. But later revelations that came after the approval were not approved.
It is important to make a distinction between approval of:
private apparitions,
private revelations,
and private devotions that may build on apparitions or revelations.
P
ProdigalSun
Guest
All of the visionaries agree with this statement and so do the priests of the diocese.
All of the demands made by the Bishop have been followed.
C
commenter
Guest
C
commenter
Guest
Ok. That’s a good start, in terms of “obedience”.
P
PaulfromIowa
Guest
J
Joe_5859
Guest
Yes, Bayside is an example of one that has been condemned. I never heard of the one in Conyers, so I’m not sure.
C
commenter
Guest
it seems to me the Church is living in the second category, “jury is still out”, on a whole lot of things nowadays, not just on private revelations. Prior to 1960 the Church was much more decisive, one way or the other, for better or worse.
But please, don’t follow up my tangent, **return to the topic of the thread. **
Commenter
Facilitator of Tangents, Loose Ends, Unanswerable Questions, Non Sequiturs and more.
Nickname: The Thread Terminator
I hesitate to go off on a tangent, or start controversy (again). Suffice to say that when Pope Pius XII was pope, you would not have documents, or rather footnotes, that have the German bishops responding one way, and the Polish bishops the other way. And aren’t there other things in recent decades along these lines?
But please, don’t follow up my tangent, **return to the topic of the thread. **
Commenter
Facilitator of Tangents, Loose Ends, Unanswerable Questions, Non Sequiturs and more.
Nickname: The Thread Terminator
P
pianistclare
Guest
Those which conflict with divine revelation or simple reality are obviously false. For instance, the Bayside woman claimed that Pope Paul VI had been kidnapped and replaced by an imposter.
Right, and the Conyers thing was really daft. Our Lady was telling the woman she shoudl wear her hair differently.
Here’s what my priest friend said about Conyers one day:
He began a homily like this:
People want to know what I say about Conyers. Here’s what I know FOR SURE:
(everyone leaned in, you could have heard a pin drop)
He said:
I have no idea if Our Lady is out there in that field. If it makes people dust off their rosaries, fine, that’s a good thing. But what I do know for sure, 100% is that JESUS himself WILL BE HERE TRULY PRESENT, in about 10 minutes.
Where are the 1000’s? Where are the tv cameras?
Why are people not shoving you lot out of your pews for a spot?
For example?
O
otjm
Guest
That may, in part, be due to a vastly different world of communications. In 1960 I was using a telephone with a rotary dial… There were no bag phones; the internet had not been invented; and television was not that far removed from it’s infancy.
C
commenter
Guest
- Status