Vatican Document Forbidding Homosexuals to Priesthood Ready for Release

[contemplative]

Can You Say Lavender Mafia?Click title for link

 

[Libero]

Yes felra, I completely agree with you, that post was a disaster that was wrong. It was my first ever post, and I completely mucked it up. I later apologised to the people involved in the post through PM. I would ask you please to disregard that thread, thankyou. In response to:

What change in the Papal view towards homosexuality would you like to see put forward?

I do not think I would like to see a change - I put it the wrong way there (my poor posting abilities) - I would rather like to see a ful teaching of the churches view on homosexuality. So many times I have had friends who habe talked to me about this and have said that the cathoilc church hates homosexuals. I get rather annoyed when this happens, it is a complete misunderstanding of our church beliefs. However I can understand why these views were formed. This has been brushed on in other threads, people have stated that sometimes others read paragraph 2358 CCC and only pick up on ‘objectively disordered’ without highlighting:

‘They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided.’

I would wish for people to understand the whole viewpoint that the church holds on the topic. I feel that this can only be acheived through proper preeching of church teachings.

Hope this clears some of my viewpoints up.

 

[m134e5]

felra:

Why should the Church settle for anything less than the basic threshold qualification, that, if a man is unfit, unqualified to enter in holy matrimony, then this sincere man is not a viable seminarian candidate?

Because many men who struggle with homosexuality are masculine in every other way other than who they are physically attracted to. (They like ‘manly’ things, they act like men, they look and dress like heterosexual men- they may be the most masculine men some people know- they are attracted to the femininity of women, and have no trouble relating to men, but they are not physiologically attracted to women for some reason). The Church is physically neither male nor female. It is spiritually female, and a man who is emotionally comfortable being male, and is a compassionate person with a zeal for saving souls, and he and his spiritual director feel he has a calling to the priesthood (from God), then who are we to say otherwise?

 

[fix]

Libero:

Yes felra, I completely agree with you, that post was a disaster that was wrong. It was my first ever post, and I completely mucked it up. I later apologised to the people involved in the post through PM. I would ask you please to disregard that thread, thankyou. In response to:

I do not think I would like to see a change - I put it the wrong way there (my poor posting abilities) - I would rather like to see a ful teaching of the churches view on homosexuality. So many times I have had friends who habe talked to me about this and have said that the cathoilc church hates homosexuals. I get rather annoyed when this happens, it is a complete misunderstanding of our church beliefs. However I can understand why these views were formed. This has been brushed on in other threads, people have stated that sometimes others read paragraph 2358 CCC and only pick up on ‘objectively disordered’ without highlighting:

‘They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided.’

I would wish for people to understand the whole viewpoint that the church holds on the topic. I feel that this can only be acheived through proper preeching of church teachings.

Hope this clears some of my viewpoints up.

Notice the quote states *unjust *discrimination. Just discrimination is not illicit and just discrimination is called for by the virtue of prudence.

 

[fix]

m134e5:

Because many men who struggle with homosexuality are masculine in every other way other than who they are physically attracted to. (They like ‘manly’ things, they act like men, they look and dress like heterosexual men- they may be the most masculine men some people know- they are attracted to the femininity of women, and have no trouble relating to men, but they are not physiologically attracted to women for some reason). The Church is physically neither male nor female. It is spiritually female, and a man who is emotionally comfortable being male, and is a compassionate person with a zeal for saving souls, and he and his spiritual director feel he has a calling to the priesthood (from God), then who are we to say otherwise?

The Church will decide who has a calling and for too long those in authority thumbed their noses at the mind of the Church and we have the results of that this very day.

 

[RC_Traditional]

Here is what St.Matthew says to those who die and do not give up this abomination through true contrition, repentance and avoiding this abomination which quoted from the Latin vulgate(translated in English), Gospel of St.Matthew Chapter 13 :

13:39 And the enemy that sowed them, is the devil. But the harvest is the end of the world. And the reapers are the angels.
13:39 inimicus autem qui seminavit ea est diabolus messis vero consummatio saeculi est messores autem angeli sunt

13:40 Even as cockle therefore is gathered up, and burnt with fire: so shall it be at the end of the world.
13:40 sicut ergo colliguntur zizania et igni conburuntur sic erit in consummatione saeculi

13:41 The Son of man shall send his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all scandals, and them that work iniquity.
13:41 mittet Filius hominis angelos suos et colligent de regno eius omnia scandala et eos qui faciunt iniquitatem

13:42 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
13:42 et mittent eos in caminum ignis ibi erit fletus et stridor dentium. from RC

 

[Libero]

Notice the quote states unjust discrimination. Just discrimination is not illicit and just discrimination is called for by the virtue of prudence.

Please dont tell me this is your Catholic view, if so, please do not spread it to non catholics, there is no hope for our church that way.

Here is what St.Matthew says to those who die and do not give up this abomination through true contrition, repentance and avoiding this abomination which quoted from the Latin vulgate(translated in English), Gospel of St.Matthew Chapter 13 :

Well I have serious trouble accepting this, I do not think that any loving god would really inflict such terriblle attrocities upon his children, does anyone really deserve such a punishment for the rest of eternity?

 

[fix]

Libero:

Please dont tell me this is your Catholic view, if so, please do not spread it to non catholics, there is no hope for our church that way.

Please do not tell me this is your Catholic view. As one example the Church says two homosexuals living in a faux union should not be allowed to adopted children. This is just discrimination. I would be happy to give other examples.

 

[palmas85]

I know that there are homosexual priests, monks, bishops, cardinals, maybe even popes. There are also heterosexual priests, monks, bishops, cardinals and popes. The fact that someone is homosexual should not bar him from the priesthood, anymore than if someone is a heterosexual.

HOWEVER, as far as I know when someone receives Holy Orders or when accepted into religious life they VOLUNTARILY turn away from having sexual relations of ANY kind. So the fact that someone is gay should not enter into it as long as he or she is committed to a celibate lifestyle. Ditto for heterosexuals. While true that the whole gay lifestyle is very sexually oriented, you only have to look at gay pride parades to see that, many gay men do live celibate lifestyles and try to overcome their desires.

As far as the whole abomination issue goes, the Bible says homosexuality is forbidden, no doubt about it. I think that refers to the active practice of it though.

Many people these days seem to have forgotten that God is actually pretty strict and moralistic, and makes grest demands on us in life. All to often I hear people say they have trouble accepting a God that would punish his children for what they are… Look at the Bible folks, look at the lives of the Saints, look at the early Christians, look at Job, Abraham, Noah even Jesus Christ himself. Sickness, plagues, tortures, death, suffering and a burning torment for those who reject His laws.

God is God. In the Bible it says,“My ways are not your ways, nor my thoughts your thoughts” So how dare we presume that God won’t punish someone for an immoral lifestyle of whatever sexual persuasion?

I think the whole issue is self control. A homosexual can be an excellent priest. He just has to do what others both gay and straight have done before, Be celibate. It’s not the end of the world not to have sex. May seem like it, but its not.

 

[Topher]

Libero:

Please dont tell me this is your Catholic view, if so, please do not spread it to non catholics, there is no hope for our church that way.

Well I have serious trouble accepting this, I do not think that any loving god would really inflict such terriblle attrocities upon his children, does anyone really deserve such a punishment for the rest of eternity?

Its not so much that God inflicts the punisments but that man inflicts himself. To be in heaven is to be in the eternal presence of God and be united to his love, perfection, power, and WILL. To be in hell is to be separated from these things. Those who go to hell do so because they do not want to be united God. To do so would mean that they must be united to his WILL for eternity but they would hate that even more than hell itself. Therefore, in God’s mercy, he allows them not to spend eternity with him. The problem with hell is this. If God is the ulitmiate good and hell is the separtion from God, then in hell people are separated from Good. Since people were made for Good, this separtion causes suffering that even manifests itself physically. But remember, the only place that the damned would hate more than hell is heaven.

 

[Libero]

Please do not tell me this is your Catholic view. As one example the Church says two homosexuals living in a faux union should not be allowed to adopted children. This is just discrimination. I would be happy to give other examples.

Well that depends, really, I would not consider telling people they cannot adopt children to be discrimination. I would think of discrimination to be treating a person unfavourably due to a matter that does not bear direct relevance.

 

[fix]

Libero:

Well that depends, really, I would not consider telling people they cannot adopt children to be discrimination. I would think of discrimination to be treating a person unfavourably due to a matter that does not bear direct relevance.

Then we should define our terms before starting into a discussion. There are plenty of instances where “gay” men and women should be denied certain things that could be termed just discrimination.

What if one was renting a room in a house and the owner had children, or just decides he does not want to rent to a “gay” couple, that would be just discrimination.

We discriminate all the time in our lives. That is why we have just and unjust discrimination.

 

[Libero]

Having established an idea of just and unjust discrimination one must then decide wether or not they have the authority to discriminate. in some instances I do not think that this is the case, even if the discrimination is just. Sometimes one has no right to discriminate a peson, as they are so often imperfect themselves.

 

[contemplative]

Pope approves barring gay seminarians