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EmperorNapoleon
Guest
Just because a Catholic who served as the president of the Church’s own commission criticizes the Church’s reluctance to examine it’s actions doesn’t make her an enemy of the Catholic Church.
Vatican expresses surprise, indignation at raid on Belgian archdiocese
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Laurent_LUG
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Well , the way i see it:
Not all priests or bishops , etc are peadophiles. True
Someone who’s committing a crime , whatever this crime may be ,
has the right to proven he/she’s innocent/not guilty , true !!!
catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=6116
This former bishop confessed he committed a crime , child abuse !!!
He resigned , ok , but today he’s still a priest … i don’t get that ??
Why there is no legal action taken against such criminal fact ???
And i repeat , not every priest , bishop , etc are child molesters , true !!!
In fact , it doesn’t matter who commit this horrifying crime ,
child abuse is absolutely wrong !!!
Salute & Cheers from a NON BELIEVER:
– Laurent LUG (.@…), june 30, 2010
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edgarddb
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Belgian Priest are paid by the state. Parochial school are maintained by the state, just as the public schools are,
The state judicial system is based on the Napolionic code of justice.
You are guilty untill proven inocent.
The Belgian government? is nearly broke and is desperate to make ends meet.
Ever since I was a child,( end of WW II) I knew, there has always been a bias against the Catholic Church in the “liberal socialistic communist” media, and government circles, and now the “green” wackoos are adding their voices to the cabaal.
Perhaps the goverment is trying to unburden themselves from their obligations towards the Church? for the EURO government is demanding Fiscal restraint on all member states: See Greece. The current president of the EU is a former Belgian PM (socialist)
The officialdom better start looking in their own fiefdom, for the sex scandal of a while back involving persons in high places, has been put on the backburner. Why not lash out at the Church to further sidetrack that old painful wound.
Child abuse is less of a problem in the Church then in Soceity at large, and yes I ENCOUNTERD IT personally as a choirboy, and I never recognized it as such untill the recent furror.
Our young underpastor was the choir master and played soccer with us. He also played with us after choir practice, He used to grabb us by the lower legs and stand us on our heads. I noticed his beady bloodshot eyes, behind the thick horn rimmed glasses, darting furtive glances into our short pants we were wearing, since we wore no underwear those days, only a long shirt, a sweater and pants, socks and wooden clogs. I was wise to him, and fought him off like a little devil and slipped out of his grasp like an eel. But it never dawned on me that this too was some kind of abuse. He took us camping too. but I don’t know if it went any further then that with any of my friends. He must be long death be now. We moved away shortly after WWII TO ANOYHER TOWN.This episode has never affected my faith either. ed
The state judicial system is based on the Napolionic code of justice.
You are guilty untill proven inocent.
The Belgian government? is nearly broke and is desperate to make ends meet.
Ever since I was a child,( end of WW II) I knew, there has always been a bias against the Catholic Church in the “liberal socialistic communist” media, and government circles, and now the “green” wackoos are adding their voices to the cabaal.
Perhaps the goverment is trying to unburden themselves from their obligations towards the Church? for the EURO government is demanding Fiscal restraint on all member states: See Greece. The current president of the EU is a former Belgian PM (socialist)
The officialdom better start looking in their own fiefdom, for the sex scandal of a while back involving persons in high places, has been put on the backburner. Why not lash out at the Church to further sidetrack that old painful wound.
Child abuse is less of a problem in the Church then in Soceity at large, and yes I ENCOUNTERD IT personally as a choirboy, and I never recognized it as such untill the recent furror.
Our young underpastor was the choir master and played soccer with us. He also played with us after choir practice, He used to grabb us by the lower legs and stand us on our heads. I noticed his beady bloodshot eyes, behind the thick horn rimmed glasses, darting furtive glances into our short pants we were wearing, since we wore no underwear those days, only a long shirt, a sweater and pants, socks and wooden clogs. I was wise to him, and fought him off like a little devil and slipped out of his grasp like an eel. But it never dawned on me that this too was some kind of abuse. He took us camping too. but I don’t know if it went any further then that with any of my friends. He must be long death be now. We moved away shortly after WWII TO ANOYHER TOWN.This episode has never affected my faith either. ed
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pnewton
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Based on the way she reacted to this anonymous tip, I will stand by my opinion. I have never heard of such an intrusion on such thin information. It takes an enemy with an agenda to pull off such a coup.
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pnewton
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A better question is why police and the press continuing the assault against the Catholic Church for these failures while the people primarily responsible for prosecuting the law get a free pass? It is the civil justice system that is supposed to punish criminals. It a failure on the part of law enforcement when any criminal is allowed to operate over an extended period of time with impunity.
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CatholicGerman
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The Church is not under attack (supposedly) for the child molestation, but for an organized cover-up.
Also because the Church is able to punish them effectively, without the burden of proof that a criminal investigation would carry. In most of these cases there are no witnesses, no evidence, no nothing. Most take place so far in the past, that there is only the alleged-victim’s testimony to go by.
The civil prosecution has to terrorize the priests into a confession, or dismiss the charges. That’s why most of the prosecution is taking place in the media, rather than in the courts; to frighten and shame the priests.
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pnewton
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An alleged organized cover-up. Indeed your post illustrates the illogic of the situation. If the Church disciplines in house, it is a cover-up. If they do not, then it is apathy. It is the casual disregard for the rule of law and the need for evidence prior to assigning guilt that marks a witch hunt.
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CatholicGerman
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Are you surprised? There’s always a witch hunt before economic collapse, and the Church is assumed to be wealthy.
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1234
Guest
I read a recent article which provided background for the Belgian impasse with the Vatican.
There was a terrible child abuse case in the 1970’s in Belgium–NOT involving the church, but involving the deaths of 4 girls, which uncovered widespread incompetence and corruption in the police. This set the stage. Belgians are hypersensitive on abuse.
The Catholic church as been in decline in Belgium for a long time. Only 7% of Catholics attend Mass each week–a decade ago, it was 11%. Half of Catholic children are baptised. One quarter of marriages between Catholics are in the RCC.
Recently the bishop of Bruges had to resign because he admitted molesting a boy.
tTe new replacement of the Archbishop of Belgium is much more conservative than his predecessor–this was interpreted by the Belgians as a slap in the face.
Last year, on his way to Africa, the pope said that condoms aggravated the AIDS crisis. This statement was condemned by the Belgium parliament overwhelmingly.
The country is very split–the more prosperous French-speaking Catholic north and the less prosperous Flemish-speaking Protestant south. (Belgium has considered partition.) Each has a favorite newspaper. Both are critical of the Vatican.
There was a terrible child abuse case in the 1970’s in Belgium–NOT involving the church, but involving the deaths of 4 girls, which uncovered widespread incompetence and corruption in the police. This set the stage. Belgians are hypersensitive on abuse.
The Catholic church as been in decline in Belgium for a long time. Only 7% of Catholics attend Mass each week–a decade ago, it was 11%. Half of Catholic children are baptised. One quarter of marriages between Catholics are in the RCC.
Recently the bishop of Bruges had to resign because he admitted molesting a boy.
tTe new replacement of the Archbishop of Belgium is much more conservative than his predecessor–this was interpreted by the Belgians as a slap in the face.
Last year, on his way to Africa, the pope said that condoms aggravated the AIDS crisis. This statement was condemned by the Belgium parliament overwhelmingly.
The country is very split–the more prosperous French-speaking Catholic north and the less prosperous Flemish-speaking Protestant south. (Belgium has considered partition.) Each has a favorite newspaper. Both are critical of the Vatican.
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sidbrown
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The French are in the south and the Flemish are in the north.
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1234
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Sorry for the confusion. Both the newspapers appear united on this, tho’.
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sidbrown
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The French section of Belgium borders northern France, so it is in the south of Belgium. The Flemish section of Belgium borders the south of Holland, so it is in the north of Belgium.
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EmperorNapoleon
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Why do you keep referring to her as such?
An anonymous call instructing someone to hide doccuments or else, is a threat not a “tip.”
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pnewton
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That is my understanding of the word.
That is not my understanding. Time will tell.
FYI - No arrests made so far on the hot information that required such drastic action. Still, I bet someone will be arrested, as it will be necessary to preserve the job the one authorizing this. It may take a while to find a fall guy.
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EmperorNapoleon
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So, in your eyes, anyone who criticizes the Church on it’s handling of sexual abuse cases is an enemy of the Church?
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1234
Guest
The French newspaper is* Le Soir*. The Flemish newspaper is* De Morgen*. Both support the actions of the Belgian government in its aggressive examination of the Catholic church in Belgium, especially after the step-down of the Bishop of Bruges after he admitted molesting a boy.
The point is that the Belgians are usually quite divided by language, religion, location, and socioeconomic factors, but in this they agree.
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Laurent_LUG
Guest
True
Suspected
Today I’ve read in the papers:
o Google translation 
gva.be)Couldn’t find any english written site (yet):
So , some idiots misusing “their church” by threatening the investigators !!!
This isn’t absolute necessary / right !!
Salute & Cheers from a NON BELIEVER:
– Laurent LUG (.@…), july 2, 2010
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Laurent_LUG
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sidbrown
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The Eastern border of Belgium borders Germany to the north, and Luxembourg to the south.
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NEWCATHOLICJEFF
Guest
Regardless of guilt or innocence I wonder if Belgium would mind the FBI raiding one of their embassies? I believe the Vatican is a sovereign state and I would assume that the Arch Diocese in each country would be considered an embassy. Something to think about?
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