Vatican foreign minister hopes interreligious dialogue can counter religious violence [CC]

[Catholic_Press]

Archbishop Paul Gallagher, the Holy See’s Secretary for Relations with States, spoke with The Australian about the Vatican’s efforts to use interreligious dialogue as a means to counter …

More…

 

[Blue_Goose]

I scanned the very brief article. It did not say with whom the Archbishop wishes to engage in dialogue.

I believe dialogue can certainly help, but the dialogue must be directly with those that are bringing the violence. The problem I see is that those bringing violence to Christians are just as committed to their version of God peace and justice as we are to ours.

 

[Pulvis]

With all do respect to the Archbishop, you cannot dialog with those who wish you dead. The Kenyan and Egyptian martyrs will attest to that.

 

[OraLabora]

With all do respect to the Archbishop, you cannot dialog with those who wish you dead. The Kenyan and Egyptian martyrs will attest to that.

Islam is a big tent with many sects. There is, I believe, benefit to dialoguing with more moderate elements and using our common love of God, justice and peace in order to form alliances against the radical fundamentalists. These radicals are just as guilty of fratricide within the Muslim realm as they are of murder of Christians. Both Christians and Muslims are suffering at their hands, and could potentially be a common front in this struggle.

It might just give moderate Muslims the courage to raise their voices in indignation with us, even when it is dangerous to do so.

 

[Pulvis]

Islam is a big tent with many sects. There is, I believe, benefit to dialoguing with more moderate elements and using our common love of God, justice and peace in order to form alliances against the radical fundamentalists. These radicals are just as guilty of fratricide within the Muslim realm as they are of murder of Christians. Both Christians and Muslims are suffering at their hands, and could potentially be a common front in this struggle.

It might just give moderate Muslims the courage to raise their voices in indignation with us, even when it is dangerous to do so.

With respect to you and your opinion, The Church has been at war with Mohamed and his followers since 622 A.D. when this false religion was founded at the point of a sword. It is disingenuous to believe that any dialog with “moderate” Muslims will attain anything. The moderates in question are mostly secular muslims, much as secular Jews and secular Christians. They are either non practicing or minimally observant. The true followers of mohamet believe the lies of the koran and hadith and want you, me and all infidels converted or killed. And their faith teaches that lieing and subterfuge are permitted against infidels to achieve the ultimate goal; the spread of islam world wide. Add to that the internal war between Shia and Sunni sects, and you have an unstable situation where regardless of which side you attempt to negotiate with, you will eventually wind up fighting. The term “radical fundamentalist” is bandied about to give the impression that this is just a tiny sect of wackos committing the murders of Christians, Jews and muslims they do not like. I would suggest that the actual number of muslims that support isis, al queda, boco haram, et al is much larger than we are being told. The Church has organized and stopped several muslim incursions over time. She needs to step up and do so again.

As an aside, i would suggest that all do some research and read the actual history of the rise of islam, it’s spread across the middle east and north Africa, the Ottoman Turks, and the effects that western interventions after WW 1 and WW 2 had in setting the stage for where we are today. Patrick J. Buchanan has some very insightful documents at his website.

 

[Blue_Goose]

With respect to you and your opinion, The Church has been at war with Mohamed and his followers since 622 A.D. when this false religion was founded at the point of a sword. It is disingenuous to believe that any dialog with “moderate” Muslims will attain anything. The moderates in question are mostly secular muslims, much as secular Jews and secular Christians. They are either non practicing or minimally observant. The true followers of mohamet believe the lies of the koran and hadith and want you, me and all infidels converted or killed. And their faith teaches that lieing and subterfuge are permitted against infidels to achieve the ultimate goal; the spread of islam world wide. Add to that the internal war between Shia and Sunni sects, and you have an unstable situation where regardless of which side you attempt to negotiate with, you will eventually wind up fighting. The term “radical fundamentalist” is bandied about to give the impression that this is just a tiny sect of wackos committing the murders of Christians, Jews and muslims they do not like. I would suggest that the actual number of muslims that support isis, al queda, boco haram, et al is much larger than we are being told. The Church has organized and stopped several muslim incursions over time. She needs to step up and do so again.

As an aside, i would suggest that all do some research and read the actual history of the rise of islam, it’s spread across the middle east and north Africa, the Ottoman Turks, and the effects that western interventions after WW 1 and WW 2 had in setting the stage for where we are today. Patrick J. Buchanan has some very insightful documents at his website.

Excellent post based on history and reality. I also recommend reviewing the CA blog posts by Robert Spencer that deal with Islam.

 

[graciew]

“The Holy See will continue to** make efforts to contribute t**o the peaceful resolution of the conflicts which are driving Christians and other religious and ethnic minorities from their homes and the places their communities have lived for centuries.”

I appreciate their efforts enormously. And pray they will be heard.

 

[OraLabora]

With respect to you and your opinion, The Church has been at war with Mohamed and his followers since 622 A.D. when this false religion was founded at the point of a sword. It is disingenuous to believe that any dialog with “moderate” Muslims will attain anything. The moderates in question are mostly secular muslims, much as secular Jews and secular Christians. They are either non practicing or minimally observant. The true followers of mohamet believe the lies of the koran and hadith and want you, me and all infidels converted or killed. And their faith teaches that lieing and subterfuge are permitted against infidels to achieve the ultimate goal; the spread of islam world wide. Add to that the internal war between Shia and Sunni sects, and you have an unstable situation where regardless of which side you attempt to negotiate with, you will eventually wind up fighting. The term “radical fundamentalist” is bandied about to give the impression that this is just a tiny sect of wackos committing the murders of Christians, Jews and muslims they do not like. I would suggest that the actual number of muslims that support isis, al queda, boco haram, et al is much larger than we are being told. The Church has organized and stopped several muslim incursions over time. She needs to step up and do so again.

At first I thought I must have been monumentally stupid to have missed what you said, because what you said in nowhere matches my experience with actual Muslims, several of which have been my colleagues over the years; perhaps I missed something and they took me for a ride. But then I remembered the Catechism of the Catholic Church and now I don’t feel so bad:

841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day."330

It would appear that interreligious dialogue with Muslims is a priority for the Church:

w2.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/messages/pont-messages/2013/documents/papa-francesco_20130710_musulmani-ramadan.html

As noted I have had some very kind Muslim colleagues. In fact only Muslims (and a fellow practicing Catholic) ever showed deference and respect to my Catholic beliefs and practices in the workplace. And yes, they were practicing Muslims. One colleague in the same department was extremely respectful towards me when I would pray the Liturgy of the Hours (mid-day prayer) just before lunch. If she came to me on a technical issue and saw me praying, she’d whisper “I see you’re praying I’ll come back later”; actually she got to know my prayer time and would never come to see me at that time. None of the (nominally Catholic) secular co-workers I had would hesitate for a moment before interrupting my prayer for something that could wait a few minutes. She also told me of the existence of a prayer room on another floor, available for my use if I needed it. And of an obscure company policy that stated that I was entitled to use any empty conference room to pray in privacy if the prayer room was in use by someone else.

She was one of the best colleagues to work with because being prayerful and observant, she was deeply human and rigorously open and honest in all her dealings with myself and other colleagues. Not something I could say of many of my colleagues. Occasionally we would go on noon hour walks and would dialogue about our faiths, not in a proselytizing way, but simply to learn each other’s faith experience. It struck me that her aspirations in life weren’t so far different from mine: concern and love for her family and above all a love of God and a desire to get closer to Him. Of course our practice and understanding were different but we could discuss those openly and respectfully.

As an aside, i would suggest that all do some research and read the actual history of the rise of islam, it’s spread across the middle east and north Africa, the Ottoman Turks, and the effects that western interventions after WW 1 and WW 2 had in setting the stage for where we are today. Patrick J. Buchanan has some very insightful documents at his website.

Fact is I’ve always been a bit of a fan of reading history, especially that of the two world wars. So yes, I do happen to have a pretty good understanding of what happened in those eras, in particular the interventions of the British and the French.

Hate begets hate. We are Catholics and are supposed to rise above that. Dialogue is not only possible but necessary, at least with those willing to sit down. Have you seen the film “Of Men and Gods”? Have you read Christian de Chergé’s testament?

ocso.org/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_download&gid=244&Itemid=187&lang=en

 

[Pulvis]

At first I thought I must have been monumentally stupid to have missed what you said, because what you said in nowhere matches my experience with actual Muslims, several of which have been my colleagues over the years; perhaps I missed something and they took me for a ride. But then I remembered the Catechism of the Catholic Church and now I don’t feel so bad:

It would appear that interreligious dialogue with Muslims is a priority for the Church:

w2.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/messages/pont-messages/2013/documents/papa-francesco_20130710_musulmani-ramadan.html

As noted I have had some very kind Muslim colleagues. In fact only Muslims (and a fellow practicing Catholic) ever showed deference and respect to my Catholic beliefs and practices in the workplace. And yes, they were practicing Muslims. One colleague in the same department was extremely respectful towards me when I would pray the Liturgy of the Hours (mid-day prayer) just before lunch. If she came to me on a technical issue and saw me praying, she’d whisper “I see you’re praying I’ll come back later”; actually she got to know my prayer time and would never come to see me at that time. None of the (nominally Catholic) secular co-workers I had would hesitate for a moment before interrupting my prayer for something that could wait a few minutes. She also told me of the existence of a prayer room on another floor, available for my use if I needed it. And of an obscure company policy that stated that I was entitled to use any empty conference room to pray in privacy if the prayer room was in use by someone else.

She was one of the best colleagues to work with because being prayerful and observant, she was deeply human and rigorously open and honest in all her dealings with myself and other colleagues. Not something I could say of many of my colleagues. Occasionally we would go on noon hour walks and would dialogue about our faiths, not in a proselytizing way, but simply to learn each other’s faith experience. It struck me that her aspirations in life weren’t so far different from mine: concern and love for her family and above all a love of God and a desire to get closer to Him. Of course our practice and understanding were different but we could discuss those openly and respectfully.

Fact is I’ve always been a bit of a fan of reading history, especially that of the two world wars. So yes, I do happen to have a pretty good understanding of what happened in those eras, in particular the interventions of the British and the French.

Hate begets hate. We are Catholics and are supposed to rise above that. Dialogue is not only possible but necessary, at least with those willing to sit down. Have you seen the film “Of Men and Gods”? Have you read Christian de Chergé’s testament?

ocso.org/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_download&gid=244&Itemid=187&lang=en

After 1965, yes. Pre-1965, i could fill up several pages with the Encyclicals and Papal Bulls concerning the relationship of The Church to islam.

Ask the 150 dead Kenyans, or the dead Coptics, or the dead Egyptians, or the dead Iraqi Christians if they have seen the movie or read that book. Better yet, ask the islamic terrorists if they have. At the battle of Lepanto, dialog did not turn the islamic fleet around. In France Charles Martel did not use dialog to stop the invasion.

In my opinion, and only My opinion, dialog is a haven for the weak. There are some people who simply want you dead. Period. No amount of dialog will convince them otherwise. I know this flies in the face of our modern, enlightened society. But these are not modern, enlightened people.

 

[OraLabora]

There are some people who simply want you dead. Period. No amount of dialog will convince them otherwise. I know this flies in the face of our modern, enlightened society. But these are not modern, enlightened people.

I don’t necessarily disagree with this.

What I disagree with, is painting all of Islam with the same brush, as if a Jack Chick tract was representative of all of Christianity.

 

[Pulvis]

I don’t necessarily disagree with this.

What I disagree with, is painting all of Islam with the same brush, as if a Jack Chick tract was representative of all of Christianity.

Please, not jack chic! I grew up Catholic in the old south. In public school. I had more than a few of those tracts slid into my books and locker.