Vatican has ‘dramatic’ plans for Irish Church

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“THE Vatican is planning “something dramatic” for the Irish Church in the coming months which could see the number of dioceses significantly reduced and most of our current bishops replaced, it has been claimed…”

Read more: irishexaminer.com/ireland/kfgbeykfidgb/rss2/#ixzz1V1R4ZBPp
Anybody from Ireland have an opinion on this? Is it good or bad to reduce the number of diocese? I admit, as an American, that twenty-six diocese seems a bit for such a small country with an even smaller Catholic population. But that’s just my humble (and probably misled) opinion.
 
The_Scott said:
“THE Vatican is planning “something dramatic” for the Irish Church in the coming months which could see the number of dioceses significantly reduced and most of our current bishops replaced, it has been claimed…”

Read more: irishexaminer.com/ireland/kfgbeykfidgb/rss2/#ixzz1V1R4ZBPp
Anybody from Ireland have an opinion on this? Is it good or bad to reduce the number of diocese? I admit, as an American, that twenty-six diocese seems a bit for such a small country with an even smaller Catholic population. But that’s just my humble (and probably misled) opinion.
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This is an opinion piece offering support to the idea of reducing the number of dioceses:

irishcatholic.ie/site/content/case-radically-restructuring-our-hierarchy-david-quinn
 
I don’t know if I believe the article to be honest, and I live in Ireland. Since the Apostolic Visitation, the Irish media, who have become increasingly hostile to Church and Vatican, have leaked information of what the Vatican is planning to do here. And each time, the news has been contradicted, so it’s hard to know where these leaks are coming from.

As for the number of Dioceses, I don’t know that would make a real difference to be honest, unless the Vatican ensured that the remaining Bishops are totally faithful to the Magisterium and ready to stand up for our faith and stamp out anything that threatens it.

It is true that the Irish Church needs a dramatic intervention, my own personal opinion is that too much liberal Catholicism has infiltrated into the Church itself, so the parishioners here are getting mixed messages. They are confused enough already, trying to figure out who’s to blame for the abuse scandals- priests, Bishops, the Vatican…? And to add to that we have priests joining this Association of Irish Catholic Priests, which has an overtly liberal agenda and is hoping to reform Catholic doctrines that are perceived as archaic and outdated - to anyone who is not educated about their faith, they won’t know which way is up anymore. Priests arguing against Bishops, Bishops criticising the Vatican - these headlines are now our daily bread in the Irish media. For those who do not have a deep love and knowledge of their faith and personal friendship with Christ, these are dangerous times. Our own priest yesterday even told us the Church needed to update itself in all areas so as to survive - what did he mean by that? More confusion.

Please God there will be a dramatic intervention, a clean up, if you will. Let us separate what is Truth from what is not, however painful the purging process will be so that what is left is the Holy Spirit leading us to Christ and helping us to be faithful members of His Mystica Body. And if people find that their faith was not what they thought it was, well at least they will now have a chance to be presented with the real Truth, and not some diluted, people-pleasing rubbish.
 
It seems odd to criticize the liberals given the revelations about what the conservatives did over the years.
 
OriginalJS said:
It seems odd to criticize the liberals given the revelations about what the conservatives did over the years.
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Well we don’t know the profile of the abusers do we… They could have been of both conservative and liberal persuasion. Anyway, if they were faithful, truly faithful to the conservative teachings of the Church, they wouldn’t have done what they did. They weren’t following Christ, whoever they were, that’s the one thing we can know for certain.

And yes, I do think that the liberal voice is a threat to the Church in Ireland - what does it do only sow confusion. Priests and catechists tell the faithful (and I have numerous personal examples) that the concept of mortal sin is now obsolete, that there is no real point in Eucharistic adoration since we all bear Christ within us… and so the concept of God’s justice is lost, and the doctrine of the Real Presence = confusion.
 
trials said:
I don’t know if I believe the article to be honest, and I live in Ireland. Since the Apostolic Visitation, the Irish media, who have become increasingly hostile to Church and Vatican, have leaked information of what the Vatican is planning to do here. And each time, the news has been contradicted, so it’s hard to know where these leaks are coming from.

As for the number of Dioceses, I don’t know that would make a real difference to be honest, unless the Vatican ensured that the remaining Bishops are totally faithful to the Magisterium and ready to stand up for our faith and stamp out anything that threatens it.

It is true that the Irish Church needs a dramatic intervention, my own personal opinion is that too much liberal Catholicism has infiltrated into the Church itself, so the parishioners here are getting mixed messages. They are confused enough already, trying to figure out who’s to blame for the abuse scandals- priests, Bishops, the Vatican…? And to add to that we have priests joining this Association of Irish Catholic Priests, which has an overtly liberal agenda and is hoping to reform Catholic doctrines that are perceived as archaic and outdated - to anyone who is not educated about their faith, they won’t know which way is up anymore. Priests arguing against Bishops, Bishops criticising the Vatican - these headlines are now our daily bread in the Irish media. For those who do not have a deep love and knowledge of their faith and personal friendship with Christ, these are dangerous times. Our own priest yesterday even told us the Church needed to update itself in all areas so as to survive - what did he mean by that? More confusion.

Please God there will be a dramatic intervention, a clean up, if you will. Let us separate what is Truth from what is not, however painful the purging process will be so that what is left is the Holy Spirit leading us to Christ and helping us to be faithful members of His Mystica Body. And if people find that their faith was not what they thought it was, well at least they will now have a chance to be presented with the real Truth, and not some diluted, people-pleasing rubbish.
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Couldn’t have put it better! 👍
 
Sinful behavior is an equal opportunity problem, affecting liberals and conservatives alike. Moreover, the big problem for the Church is not the sin of sexual abuse by priests and religious (which is probably not greater than for other institutions, religious or secular) but the cover-up by the bishops. Remember that Cardinal Bernard Law was the poster child for the sexual abuse cover-up in the U.S. No one has accused him of being liberal. This crisis results from a Church hierarchy that cared more about preserving the Church’s good image than about the welfare children and young adults. This is not a problem of bishops who are too liberal.
 
Don’t know if this is true or not and it doesn’t matter about the size of the dioceses, what matters is we have people in authority who will deal with the problems of the past and the future, and don’t make the same mistakes as before.
 
It really depends on what kind of plan the Vatican has in mind. If it’s merely housekeeping - restructuring of dioceses, reducing their number and retiring bishops consecrated before 2003 (this last was the suggestion of Fr Vincent Twomey, SVD, a personal friend of Pope Benedict) - then IMO it will make little difference to the average Catholic-in-the-pew. They might welcome the departure of many bishops but it will not resolve things for them. In general, it seems to me that people have lost all respect for the Irish hierarchy as a group with the possible individual exception of Archbishop Diarmuid Martin of Dublin. So, while having fewer bishops might be welcome, there remains the whole issue of restoring trust in the surviving hierarchy.

There is also the problem that so far only three diocesan reports have been produced on the handling of the child abuse issue - Ferns, Dublin and Cloyne. A fourth, on the diocese of Raphoe, is imminent, but there remains a further 22 reports to be published. This drip-feed of bad news is depressing for ordinary Catholics and provides a continuous supply of ammunition for critics. And most importantly, it is torture for abuse survivors whose care and healing should be a priority for the Church. Again IMO, all remaining reports should be completed and published by Easter 2012.
 
The_Scott said:
“THE Vatican is planning “something dramatic” for the Irish Church in the coming months which could see the number of dioceses significantly reduced and most of our current bishops replaced, it has been claimed…”

Read more: irishexaminer.com/ireland/kfgbeykfidgb/rss2/#ixzz1V1R4ZBPp
Anybody from Ireland have an opinion on this? Is it good or bad to reduce the number of diocese? I admit, as an American, that twenty-six diocese seems a bit for such a small country with an even smaller Catholic population. But that’s just my humble (and probably misled) opinion.
Click to expand...
I don’t get the logic of reducing the number of dioceses. Bishops are supposed to be pastors of local churches. According to the model of the early Church, there ought to be a bishop in every city. I’d say that in American terms, at least one bishop per county should be the norm. But I don’t expect anyone to listen. Bishops have long been seen as provincial administrators rather than local pastors.

Edwin
 
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