Vatican hopes secret files exonerate 'Hitler's pope'

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There were Catholics who were forced to serve the Nazis. In the ‘Black Book of Poland’, there are pictures of Franciscan looking German priests being lined up for the firing squad for speaking out against Naziism.

After I returned home from Mozambique, 1975, I later met up with one of the priests with whom I had worked with there. He told me the Mozambicans were very happy with the Marxist government. They could not travel from town to town without a pass. I saw the Cuban ‘grannies’ already there, to work as agents in the neighborhoods to monitor them. I also saw Red Chinese coming, but not so harsh looking and appeared more as teachers.

After John Paul II consecrated Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, after various Soviet military maneuvers along the Polish border, and the death of Breshnov, and two others, last being Andropov, head of KGB. Fr Gobbi, through locution of Mary, prophesized that the communist block would fall. Gorbachev was most influential with John Paul II for this.

Later, in the “Seattle Times” newspaper, there was a small clip of about two paragraphs in Section A. Seattle, by the way, had the highest number of KGB infiltrated there, second to Washington, DC. Anyway, the article stated that if the Soviet Union had taken over America, 30 million people would be targeted and automatically liquidated – two classes of people - I can’t remember – and Orthodox Catholics.

I have heard Gorbachev comment on the radio here a few years ago through the translator, as well as a talk given by Fidel Castro several years ago…and their current thinking parallels Catholicism vs materialism.

I like the idea of Christian Democrat and know such a party has existed in Italy, but I do not know how effective it is.

People who are innovators and create wealth need alot of freedom to think, test, and apply. Same with artists. I heard the comment growing up that such people must have found it hard to live there. But Solheityzian…spelling, who wrote about the Gulag and now living in Canada, admitted the Soviet persecution fed and nourished his faith, and saw it draining living in a country where one has everything.

A fellow repeated someone…‘The West has Christ without the Cross, and communism has the Cross without Christ.’

Somehow I cannot give the Soviet Union a clean pass while the Nazis are constantly vilified. Both deserve the same. I have yet to see Russia apologize for all its atrocities. China is worse. But many are becoming Christians…but now… their faith is beginning to wane due to the rising materialism…the greatest threat to faith, now I think.

What is worse? Living in great persecution with faith, or living in the land of plenty with lukewarm faith?

Thanks for the references!
 
Jharek…beautiful post! Thanks…I remember likewise when JPII came to visit the graves of the Orthodox.
 
Since Obama’s first item on his agenda list was an apology tour to the ME to apologize for American atrocities there, if enough call for it, an apology tour for atrocities committed against the Nazis would not be out of the question.

It is a little hard to see Putin going this route of course. Being on the left means never having to say your sorry.

After all when the intent is utopia, atrocities are a small price to pay.
 
Is there anybody out there that really thinks he was apologizing for his sins or the sins of socialists like him?
He was apologizing for what Bush’s America did.
 
Darryl1958 said:
Is there anybody out there that really thinks he was apologizing for his sins or the sins of socialists like him?
He was apologizing for what Bush’s America did.
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Where did Fast and Furious Guns kill Innocent Teenagers in Mexico under the Bush Administration? Besides all of the wanton slaughter per abortion which Obama supports, Obama threw it’s support behind the protesters in Egypt, gave no help to those in Iran. Perhaps it’s the Liberals who should be apologizing for their atrocities.
 
Darryl1958 said:
Is there anybody out there that really thinks he was apologizing for his sins or the sins of socialists like him?
He was apologizing for what Bush’s America did.
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Of course, your comment makes no mention that a Democrat Congress supported war in Iraq and that British Intelligence is whom said WMDs were in Iraq and they could have been smuggled out to Syria for all we know.
 
You’ll notice Sadam used gas on the Kurds, Assad in Syria was warned if he used poisonous gas, there would most likely be military intervention. Syria has now died down as well. Strange, we are not getting more threads on it, we were told Assad was close to being thrown out. But this is off topic to the central thread here, so that’s the last I will say on that.
 
Whatever Putin is, he is not the kind of guy that is going to offer any apologies for socialists killing Nazis.
I will give him that much credit at least.
 
The three largest mass murderers in human history thus far have been Mao, Stalin and Hitler.

Nazism is now illegal in Germany as a result.
 
It’s really stupid to “exonerate” a man who went out in Nazi occupied Rome and said that any and all Church property to be allocated for the Jews. This man is already is so holy that he should have been recognized by the media and historians as a saint.
 
Yes, a saint…I am resuming prayers for his intercession. Beginning the prayers, already a sense of the sacred around me, so close. I want to get his picture up.

Capuchinfan…Capuchins back out in your area? I worked with them, from Bari, many years ago. Best missionaries…endured all sorts of conditions of war and famine to be present in Christ for the native people. Heroic.
 
The Nazis and the Soviets had their propaganda machines against the Church. Now I see it here in USA by Far Left. The clergy abuse…miniscule compared to the abuse against children and vulnerable people in secular society.

We have to pray for stronger church leaders who speak out. May be pray to Pius for recovery of courage for ours.
 
One of the people not mentioned so far in this thread is the role of the “chief forger” … in order for the Vatican to provide the Jewish refugees with documents that allowed them to be evacuated out of Rome, one person headed up a group to provide those documents:

Angelo Giuseppe Roncalli

He was later known as Pope John XXIII.
 
KathleenGee said:
The Nazis and the Soviets had their propaganda machines against the Church. Now I see it here in USA by Far Left. The clergy abuse…miniscule compared to the abuse against children and vulnerable people in secular society.

We have to pray for stronger church leaders who speak out. May be pray to Pius for recovery of courage for ours.
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In the end, it was the Church that turned out to be the biggest threat to the Soviets, front and centre in the downfall of the Soviet bloc. In the world of ideas from which Catholicism exerts power, propaganda is the most effective way to counter Catholic influence, for systems like Nazism and Leninism at least, built as they are on foundations of sand, and cannot stand up on their own arguments.

Leftism, most certainly the most dynamic faith system in the world today, is the the next in a line of anti-Christ ideologies that understands that the Catholic Church is their biggest enemy.
The most effective propaganda is never an outright lie of course. It is not the lie, but the propagation of half-truths that is what makes propaganda so believable and so effective.

There is simply no comparision to be made between the evils of the Catholic Church, and the evils that have entered into our society since the advent of secularism, not least of which is the elimination of a third of each generation born since leftist ideology became most prominent following the social revolutions of the sixties and the seventies.
As far as that goes, there is simply no comparision between the total of evils brought into the world through American influence, and those of their cold war enemies.
Half-truths however obfuscate differences to the point of moral equivalence.
Such is the nature of leftist propaganda today.

The only difference is that being on the left means never having to say you are sorry. Obama has repented from the sins of the American right for sure. Germany has repented from the evils of Nazism. Catholic hierarchy has repented from the evils of covering up sexual abuse.
That is far as the culture of repentance goes.
 
KathleenGee said:
Yes, a saint…I am resuming prayers for his intercession. Beginning the prayers, already a sense of the sacred around me, so close. I want to get his picture up.

Capuchinfan…Capuchins back out in your area? I worked with them, from Bari, many years ago. Best missionaries…endured all sorts of conditions of war and famine to be present in Christ for the native people. Heroic.
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Actually no, I’m in a Conventual parish right now. My first parish was a Capuchin one, but my mom’s area of origin was virtually all Capuchin and I really like the Capuchin in general.🙂
 
Darryl1958 said:
In the end, it was the Church that turned out to be the biggest threat to the Soviets, front and centre in the downfall of the Soviet bloc. In the world of ideas from which Catholicism exerts power, propaganda is the most effective way to counter Catholic influence, for systems like Nazism and Leninism at least, built as they are on foundations of sand, and cannot stand up on their own arguments.

Leftism, most certainly the most dynamic faith system in the world today, is the the next in a line of anti-Christ ideologies that understands that the Catholic Church is their biggest enemy.
The most effective propaganda is never an outright lie of course. It is not the lie, but the propagation of half-truths that is what makes propaganda so believable and so effective.

There is simply no comparision to be made between the evils of the Catholic Church, and the evils that have entered into our society since the advent of secularism, not least of which is the elimination of a third of each generation born since leftist ideology became most prominent following the social revolutions of the sixties and the seventies.
As far as that goes, there is simply no comparision between the total of evils brought into the world through American influence, and those of their cold war enemies.
Half-truths however obfuscate differences to the point of moral equivalence.
Such is the nature of leftist propaganda today.

The only difference is that being on the left means never having to say you are sorry. Obama has repented from the sins of the American right for sure. Germany has repented from the evils of Nazism. Catholic hierarchy has repented from the evils of covering up sexual abuse.
That is far as the culture of repentance goes.
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I’ll go with The Great Pope John Paul II’s opinion, he knelt down and kissed the ground when he came to the USA and said “America, America, God Shed His Grace On Thee.” Yes, I think those who grew up in places like Poland and those other countries, America doesn’t look that bad.

We have done nothing that the likes of Obama needs to apologize for.

Obama would feel no differently and apologize no differently than if he had become President before Bush. AntiWar and those sights contend the Clinton Presidency and embargoes against Iraq killed many more than any killed under Bush, which came in the wake of a Terrorist Attack on the USA by the way, a terrorist attack that killed people from every nation in the world.
 
BroomWagon said:
I’ll go with The Great Pope John Paul II’s opinion, he knelt down and kissed the ground when he came to the USA and said “America, America, God Shed His Grace On Thee.” Yes, I think those who grew up in places like Poland and those other countries, America doesn’t look that bad.

We have done nothing that the likes of Obama needs to apologize for.

Obama would feel no differently and apologize no differently than if he had become President before Bush. AntiWar and those sights contend the Clinton Presidency and embargoes against Iraq killed many more than any killed under Bush, which came in the wake of a Terrorist Attack on the USA by the way, a terrorist attack that killed people from every nation in the world.
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It was a great time in human history when Saint John Paul II and Ronald Reagan came together to inspire the Poles to lead the Eastern bloc into freedom.
Poles give Ronald Reagan and America full credit for standing up for them and encouraging them at this critical juncture in their history, and JPII is the full embodiment of that Polish spirit of joy and gratitude, for sure.
The sunshine pope—I cannot envision his face without a smile, and really he had much to smile for, for what we witnessed at that time was a miracle.
 
This is a “Checkmate anti-Catholics” moment here.
I’ve seen and known that anti-Catholics are always quick to point out how either Pope Pius XII is a Nazi or how Pope Benedict XVI was/is a Nazi. These documents have effectively destroyed the anti-Catholic canard “Pius XII is a Nazi!” quite well, I say.

Also, I find it utterly hypocritical that some anti-theists are extremely quick to attack Pope Pius XII of being a Nazi when Haj Amin al-Husseini (Grand Mufti of Jerusalem a few years before World War II) actually collaborated with the Nazis! While Pope Pius XII saved many, many Jews from the Nazis, Haj Amin al-Husseini collaborated with the Nazis by among other things, giving Muslim recruits to the Waffen-SS!
 
Darryl1958 said:
It was a great time in human history when Saint John Paul II and Ronald Reagan came together to inspire the Poles to lead the Eastern bloc into freedom.
Poles give Ronald Reagan and America full credit for standing up for them and encouraging them at this critical juncture in their history, and JPII is the full embodiment of that Polish spirit of joy and gratitude, for sure.
The sunshine pope—I cannot envision his face without a smile, and really he had much to smile for, for what we witnessed at that time was a miracle.
Click to expand...
There is a book, “Victory!” by Peter Schweizer that discusses and describes the alliance between Ronald Reagan and Pope John Paul II.
 
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