Hello all-
I’ve been reading with great interest some of the posts here in the traditional forum, and am still trying to determine if I am one of ‘you’. So…2 multi part questions:
- What drove the need for vatican II? was it a knee jerk reaction to the hippies or something? I was not around yet, so i have no frame of reference other than my dad complaining about it from time to time. If it was not ‘needed’ to address issues of doctrine or dogmatic principles, then why was it held? Is it possible that the Holy Spirit was guiding our beloved church down this road for a reason? Could it be that God knew that we should have the changes ushered in by vatican II because it would bring about a greater good and a stronger church? I know that currently that is not the case, but…
- Yesterday at mass, we started by greeting each other warmly. Then we had a financial pitch after a short homily. Then we ‘affirmed’ and applauded all the birthdays. Then the same for all the anniversaries. etc, etc, etc… It is all too much!! Are there any reverent OF masses and parishes left? Not around here I think. I am more frequently annoyed at mass!! Horrible!! I have trouble reconciling this annoyance with the joy of the mass. I know this is a personal thing, and related to ‘feelings’, but do I just suck it up (acceptance) as a faithful catholic, or am I experiencing a ‘just’ annoyance? Is this a common experience with traditionalists, ultimately resolved by finding communities of like-minded catholics? I worry about all this being driven by pride.
Thanks for reading
- Vatican II has brought much good.
- There are many reverent OF masses and parishes. You’ll see even more of this on the weekdays.
I know many orthodox members who strongly prefer their mass, their rites, their language (which in some cases came about before the latin translation). So when we talk about traditionalism, it’s important to note that every “traditionalist” out there, including the orthodox, and EC’s, have no set standard as to what constitutes a traditionalist. Traditionalism is sort relative to your own faith. I think of the analogy that those who drive faster than a car are maniacs, and those who drive slower are morons. My brother is a speeder, and he says it like this: “I race to stop”. In our faith, we must be careful not to focus so much on the concept of traditionalism that it becomes a form of pride and serves as a divisive element to our own faith and growth within our congregation and our church.
Some say traditionalism is to go back to the way things were in the early 1900’s, others say, we gotta go back to 1400s, others say to 600 ad, and still some to the 300s. Now the 300’s that was catholic church! We have some orthodox congregations who literally attend service all night until sunset, others do not receive the body while menstrating, others still use aramaic, and yet we call ourselves traditionalist because we want to strike our breast during Agnus Dei, hold service in latin (which incidentally is a dead language yet it was popular when used by the church in rome), and reject the idea of interfaith prayer for the purpose of strengthening community relations, and proudly proclaim that the orthodox church must accept the pope and join in communion with the vatican to be considered true catholics and eligible for heaven while stating in another post how hurtful it is when they themselves are not called “catholic’s” because their bishop is not in communion with the vatican.
Having seen some very very traditional masses, I’d say that Love is as equally important as reverence. Whether it’s a smile that sits upon your face, or a tear that streams down your check, common, adoration, and congregation can be moving and stirring. What I love about catholicism, is the openness to various levels of faith and worship.
Now, for those traditionalists out there, my normal advice is this. If you are really that driven, and that bothered to see joy, and love in mass and you feel it must be done with such reverence that it looks like a funeral (if you feel this is rude then go back up and read the OP again), then I recommend you start the rosary amply before mass to finish a mystery. You’ll need a couple friends, keel down in different parts of the church and say it. Just say it! You’ll find that many catholics will quickly join in with joy and eventually you will change the tone and demeanor of the entire service over time. I found this works most of the time, but you’ll need the permission of the priest before doing this during mass or the rector for a regular rosary. We even did this when Mother Theresa came to visit because the congregation was very early and there was a lot of small talk and not focus on christ our community or anything regarding our faith that we could divulge (but I don’t complain about that, I lead through my faith and prayer or my friends do). The big issue in the larger parishes on sundays is usually timing, as our church has 5 masses that day, and only 3 would have time for a rosary (and in my parish I believe there is a rosary in 2 with the 3 one having a rosary on occasion) but these are done by the laity on their own.
If feel the father’s announcements are making it difficult to concentrate, then talk to father and ask him to please move that to the bulletin because it distracts your faith in church. Or perhaps first, you can ask him why he does that, and then think and pray on it for a bit with a focus on love and hope and faith. Further, if you feel there is not enough teaching of the young, teach as a minister during faith formation. If you feel there is not enough prayer, ask to start a prayer group. If you feel there is not enough outreach, form up with or start an outreach.
