Vatican II from a young person's perspective

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I don’t know about you, but I was looking forward to Latin Masses once I became a Catholic. I’m 17, and I feel a Divine Mystery whenever I step into a Church. Whenever the Priest chants during the Mass, I feel this Mystery. If the Mass was all in Latin, I’d love it.

Not to say I don’t love Mass the way it is now (English with “Alleluia” being the only Latin words said), but I’d love to experience a Latin Mass at least once. Too bad the nearest Latin Mass to me is in Boston. Maybe I’ll go to it once I go to College, God-Willing.
 
I’ve seen many people complain about the effects Second Vatican Council and about how it is somehow destroying the Church. To some exent, I agree with this. We shouldn’t have “hippie” priests and nuns that try to make the Church “cool”. But as a young person, I don’t know anything different. I don’t think we should go back to every Mass being in Latin. Bear with me for this statement, but I feel like the young people wouldn’t be as interested in the Church if every Mass was in Latin. Maybe it could be done on special occasions, but not all the time. In this day and age, the Church is lucky to have any young people interested at all, let alone the number it has. I know I may have contradicted myself, but can anybody prove me wrong?
You think that kids would be less interested? I’m 15 and me and a few friends are more interested than ever in church because of the TLM!
 
Really? Because I’m 30-something and when I attend an OF Mass, it certainly feels like a performance to me. Lounge singer on the piano, sappy, syrupy 1970s music inspired by the Carpenters, priest talking about how he is jealous of ripped, muscular bodies at the beach (just this past Sunday), constantly aiming at a laugh, or an “Oh, Father, you’re too much…”, using dramatic intonations, interjecting his own words and personality into the liturgy to emphasize his own particular theology…

No. No performance going on there…
Right. I’m telling the other dude to go the EF where it’s not like that. It is life changing.
 
Really? Because I’m 30-something and when I attend an OF Mass, it certainly feels like a performance to me. Lounge singer on the piano, sappy, syrupy 1970s music inspired by the Carpenters, priest talking about how he is jealous of ripped, muscular bodies at the beach (just this past Sunday), constantly aiming at a laugh, or an “Oh, Father, you’re too much…”, using dramatic intonations, interjecting his own words and personality into the liturgy to emphasize his own particular theology…

No. No performance going on there…
I was trying to tell him to go to the EF, where it isn’t like that.
 
So I’m a thirtysomething… does that make me young or old? I still feel young-ish.

The sentiment here is bizarre. It’s like a young person walking outside in post-bombing Hiroshima and saying “I sure like living in an uncluttered city. There’s never any traffic on the way to the market.”

Go to a Mass where the priest doesn’t show his back to God the whole time. Where it’s not a performance. Maybe it will change your mind or your heart.
Really? Because I’m 30-something and when I attend an OF Mass, it certainly feels like a performance to me. Lounge singer on the piano, sappy, syrupy 1970s music inspired by the Carpenters, priest talking about how he is jealous of ripped, muscular bodies at the beach (just this past Sunday), constantly aiming at a laugh, or an “Oh, Father, you’re too much…”, using dramatic intonations, interjecting his own words and personality into the liturgy to emphasize his own particular theology…

No. No performance going on there…
HCC, re-read the bolded above, I think misunderstood what he said.
 
Perhaps some of the young Catholics on the forum could articulate exactly what it is about the OF they prefer over the EF. I assume because of my nature that they prefer the constant commotion, for lack of a better word, overt community involvement and more modern-sounding music but there might actually be something more spiritual at work. Of course if they never attended an EF Mass and are merely reacting to what they heard or read there is no valid discussion to be had and this thread is a waste of time.
 
So I’m a thirtysomething… does that make me young or old? I still feel young-ish.

The sentiment here is bizarre. It’s like a young person walking outside in post-bombing Hiroshima and saying “I sure like living in an uncluttered city. There’s never any traffic on the way to the market.”

Go to a Mass where the priest doesn’t show his back to God the whole time. Where it’s not a performance. Maybe it will change your mind or your heart.
Dear Adeodatus,

I’m sorry. I misread your post. My apologies.😊
 
It is already happening. It is the young generation that is rebuilding the Church stone by stone.
That is what “heritage” is all about. The Church was handed to us and we have to hand on the Church to the next generation. How are we doing?

Thank God that the Church is NOT like MTV. MTV wants to make sure you DON’T grow up like your parents. Where exactly are they leading you? Pornography at every turn, degradation at every turn.

The young don’t have to rebuild the Church stone by stone, if they don’t tear it down in the first place.
 
I’m in my early thirties and here’s my take.

Where I live before Vatican II we had five Catholic Churches and two Catholic Schools that were flourishing. After the devastation of Vatican II all that is left is two Catholic Churches. I guess this is the “fruits” of Vatican II. Empty/closed churches and schools.

My wife and I think the Novus Ordo Mass is too focused on showmanship and not about worshiping God. It’s also stressful because you never know what you will get for a liturgy or homily. It reminds us to much of Protestant worship services. We started going to the Traditional Latin Mass at a parish ran by the FSSP and love it!!! We will never go to a Novus Ordo Mass again unless we have no other choice.

I think the Church was crazy for creating the Novus Ordo Mass. What a disaster it’s turned out to be.
 
Very sad. Too many people here are too focused on personal taste and seem not to know what was going on in the outside world during the late 1960s. Ask yourself: Which of the following did the Catholic Church bring into existence?

1960 Birth Control Pill.

1966 National Organization Women

1968 The Sexual Revolution. Hippies. “Don’t trust anybody over 30! Free love (sex with anyone)!”

1969 Bob, Carol, Ted & Alice. A movie about wife swapping.

1970s Adult Bookstores open everywhere.
Topless bars and strip clubs open everywhere.
Swinger magazines with ads from people looking for casual sex.

1973 Abortion legalized.

1980s No-Fault Divorce.

Vatican II was responsible? With people having abortions, getting divorced and using illegal drugs, what was Church to them anymore? And even annulments for Catholics: “I’m not getting an annulment because then my kids would be bastards.”

It took 40 years of slowly, gradually dripping the poison into our veins that too many Catholics have turned into agnostics. Too many have a vague sense of God but that’s about it.

Today, there are more Catholics and more priests, and young people know what went before, and thank God, they are turning to God.

catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/1000750.htm

God bless,
Ed
 
I for one like to be able to understand what’s going on during the mass without following along with subtitles. Latin mass imo should be an option or occasional thing.
 
I’ve seen many people complain about the effects Second Vatican Council and about how it is somehow destroying the Church. To some exent, I agree with this. We shouldn’t have “hippie” priests and nuns that try to make the Church “cool”. But as a young person, I don’t know anything different. I don’t think we should go back to every Mass being in Latin. Bear with me for this statement, but I feel like the young people wouldn’t be as interested in the Church if every Mass was in Latin. Maybe it could be done on special occasions, but not all the time. In this day and age, the Church is lucky to have any young people interested at all, let alone the number it has. I know I may have contradicted myself, but can anybody prove me wrong?
Bro, I’m 18, Living on the coast in Australia, very secular area.

Been going to church for a while now, but only began to understand everything for real around 2/3 years ago.

I have to agree with Bob:
It is the young people who are lucky to have the Church available to them. God first, your entertainment second. Your line of reasoning will eventually result in the marginalization of the Church; it will not die, God assures us of that, but it could be driven underground as in the past
Young people are a rarity at mass.

But I’ve done my homework.

I’ve noticed the huge crowds of young people which attend many protestant/evangelical celebrations and the great times they have with the music bands and all that other garbage; I used to think this was the answer to attracting young people to the Catholic Church as well.

So I began to get involved with this other form of worship with younger people, celebrating Christ through music and dancing and all that jazz…but then you realize that all it really is, is just that; a celebration… a party.

There is no substance to it. And the Catholic Church at the moment has made the fateful mistake (through Vatican II) of mixing the stupidity of “happy clappers” with the one true traditional values of the Catholic Church.

As Bob said:
It is the young people who are lucky to have the Church available to them. God first, your entertainment second.
If you want entertainment, go to a party. Not Church. In fact become an evangelical. It’s great fun while you’re there, but when you leave, you’re empty, which then leads to the questioning of your initial beliefs in the first place, inevitably followed by maturing out of this “party for Jesus” BS and becoming someone of little or no faith at all.

This is why there are no young people at church. They would rather have a good time and leave with nothing. They couldn’t care less about God. They have to rush home onto Facebook or go out clubbing, tape the last episode of family guy or get high with the home boys.

Why? Because they’re parents did not raise them properly, as they were too concerned about being the “cool” dad/mum, taking them to Saturday soccer at 6am in the morning while sleeping in on a Sunday and missing mass; lacking discipline and ultimately losing control of their children.

All of this is then proliferated by the mass media and modernized society through television and internet pushing secular agenda such as contraception and promiscuity.

Meanwhile you’ve got the Catholic Church down the road attempting to attract the young people with balloons and candy while old ladies clap their hands to some corny hymn.

As I mentioned before, it’s pointless for the church to even attempt attracting the youth in this manor, because just a few blocks down the road you’ve got reverend hippy high herbs with a rock band and laser show rockin’ out to Jesus Jams with a crowd of 5000.

It is pointless for the church to continue this pathetic garbage with this “youth mass” drivel. We should DEFINITELY go back to the old ways. Go BACK to a traditional Catholic Mass with real sentiment. We should experience mass as a union between ourselves and God on a personal level without having a yarn to the person beside us. It should be a house of peace and worship.

Can i get an Amen brother.
 
I’ve seen many people complain about the effects Second Vatican Council and about how it is somehow destroying the Church. To some exent, I agree with this. We shouldn’t have “hippie” priests and nuns that try to make the Church “cool”. But as a young person, I don’t know anything different. I don’t think we should go back to every Mass being in Latin. Bear with me for this statement, but I feel like the young people wouldn’t be as interested in the Church if every Mass was in Latin. Maybe it could be done on special occasions, but not all the time. In this day and age, the Church is lucky to have any young people interested at all, let alone the number it has. I know I may have contradicted myself, but can anybody prove me wrong?
I did not read all the posts, no. But I’m young (around Jack’s age I think) so I want to contribute.

VII, to me, was a step backwards. The Church has such a rich history, so why mess with it? Why change the centuries old Mass to suit modern times? The Church was doing just fine with Latin and the EF, but looked what happened with the changes. Abuses started popping up everywhere. Things like the ‘clown Mass’, while uncommon, now happen. Respect for the Church has been lost. Kids (and parents) now show up poorly dressed and are disrespectful. Women priests are now a prevalent topic and some have been ‘ordained’ by schismatic bishops. 😦 Catholic youth have next to no morals (trust me, I go to a Catholic school. If it wasn’t for the uniforms and the crucifixes everywhere we might as well be a public school). Am I saying Catholic youth were goody two-shoes before VII and snapped after? Of course not. But there is little interest in the Church now among most youth. The ones that are interested join youth groups, which I think very often offer shaky theology.

This part refers to the bold:
I disagree. If young people were educated about the Latin in the Mass and given prayer books with Latin-English translation, I think many young people would love a Latin Mass (I know I would!) It would also confer some respect and really show the kids that “Yes! Jesus really is in the Eucharist!!”. If done properly, I think kids now days really would like a Latin Mass. Of course, if they go to one without any education and no idea what’s going on, they probably would hate it. Proper education is key, but it seems that now days such proper education is lacking in many Catholic schools.

IMHO, the Church should have stuck with Latin. At least they didn’t outlaw it though. 🙂

And VII didn’t produce totally negative results. Humanae Vitae came out in 1968 (right?), after Vatican II and it just reinforced Church teaching. It didn’t modify anything, even though the Pope had pressure to do so. Vatican II wasn’t a total letdown, I suppose. But I feel more bad than good came out of it.

Just my :twocents:
 
Bro, I’m 18, Living on the coast in Australia, very secular area.

Been going to church for a while now, but only began to understand everything for real around 2/3 years ago.

I have to agree with Bob:

Young people are a rarity at mass.

But I’ve done my homework.

I’ve noticed the huge crowds of young people which attend many protestant/evangelical celebrations and the great times they have with the music bands and all that other garbage; I used to think this was the answer to attracting young people to the Catholic Church as well.

So I began to get involved with this other form of worship with younger people, celebrating Christ through music and dancing and all that jazz…but then you realize that all it really is, is just that; a celebration… a party.

There is no substance to it. And the Catholic Church at the moment has made the fateful mistake (through Vatican II) of mixing the stupidity of “happy clappers” with the one true traditional values of the Catholic Church.

As Bob said:

If you want entertainment, go to a party. Not Church. In fact become an evangelical. It’s great fun while you’re there, but when you leave, you’re empty, which then leads to the questioning of your initial beliefs in the first place, inevitably followed by maturing out of this “party for Jesus” BS and becoming someone of little or no faith at all.

This is why there are no young people at church. They would rather have a good time and leave with nothing. They couldn’t care less about God. They have to rush home onto Facebook or go out clubbing, tape the last episode of family guy or get high with the home boys.

Why? Because they’re parents did not raise them properly, as they were too concerned about being the “cool” dad/mum, taking them to Saturday soccer at 6am in the morning while sleeping in on a Sunday and missing mass; lacking discipline and ultimately losing control of their children.

All of this is then proliferated by the mass media and modernized society through television and internet pushing secular agenda such as contraception and promiscuity.

Meanwhile you’ve got the Catholic Church down the road attempting to attract the young people with balloons and candy while old ladies clap their hands to some corny hymn.

As I mentioned before, it’s pointless for the church to even attempt attracting the youth in this manor, because just a few blocks down the road you’ve got reverend hippy high herbs with a rock band and laser show rockin’ out to Jesus Jams with a crowd of 5000.

It is pointless for the church to continue this pathetic garbage with this “youth mass” drivel. We should DEFINITELY go back to the old ways. Go BACK to a traditional Catholic Mass with real sentiment. We should experience mass as a union between ourselves and God on a personal level without having a yarn to the person beside us. It should be a house of peace and worship.

Can i get an Amen brother.
AMEN!
 
.
My wife and I think the Novus Ordo Mass is too focused on showmanship and not about worshiping God. It’s also stressful because you never know what you will get for a liturgy or homily. It reminds us to much of Protestant worship services. We started going to the Traditional Latin Mass at a parish ran by the FSSP and love it!!! We will never go to a Novus Ordo Mass again unless we have no other choice.

I think the Church was crazy for creating the Novus Ordo Mass. What a disaster it’s turned out to be.
I hear you, brother!
 
I’m young and my only thought on the matter is that I have far more problems with the disrespect people have for either form of the Mass, or the disregard many have for the modern Church’s stance and teachings. If the discussion were more theologically involved I might be more accepting of it, but it often comes down to “I feel like the OF is a performance and not a real mass” or “Well it is traditional, and tradition is one of our authorities.” Criticizing Vatican II seems no different than criticizing Human Vitae, in fact I believe V2 even has a higher level of authority, yet many that aren’t even accepting of the questioning of Human Vitae love to jump all over V2.
 
If people do believe in the church than they will go to church’s mass in English or Latin or…
But for people who do not know for sure if they believe or not cannot Latin and do not understand what the pastor says.

It is more important that a mass needs to be made correctly without stupid behavior.
 
I’ve seen many people complain about the effects Second Vatican Council and about how it is somehow destroying the Church. To some exent, I agree with this. We shouldn’t have “hippie” priests and nuns that try to make the Church “cool”. But as a young person, I don’t know anything different. I don’t think we should go back to every Mass being in Latin. Bear with me for this statement, but I feel like the young people wouldn’t be as interested in the Church if every Mass was in Latin. Maybe it could be done on special occasions, but not all the time. In this day and age, the Church is lucky to have any young people interested at all, let alone the number it has. I know I may have contradicted myself, but can anybody prove me wrong?
Vat II mentioned nothing about hippie priests, etc. It was one of the most important Ecumenical Councils in Church history and will take decades or even centuries to work out its application. The time for it was right.
 
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