Vatican makes attempted ordination of Women a grave crime

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Yes, but if you have a question you have to take it to the logical conclusion. you have to “get” the answer.
The inquisitive human mind demands this. The Church is based on Truth and that never changes. Truth is Truth. some people take differnet routes to arrive at the truth…think St. Monica and St. Augustine.
Our goal in life is to attain heaven, not to be priests. Both St. Monica and St. Augustine made it, as you say, by different routes. This is my point with the priesthood. Some people are called to serve God as priests, like St. Augustine, while others are called to simply remain in the background and pray, like St. Monica. Both are needed.
**When we are confronted by one of these conflicts, we are beholden to learn why the Church teaches as She does **and to accept Her word over our own conclusions.
If we have investigated and still do not ‘get’ the answer, we must still accept the Church’s Teaching over our own conclusion.

I like to use Mary’s ‘Fiat’ to help me with this. Mary probably did not understand all of what God was doing with her at the Annunciation but she humbly submitted in obedience.
 
What “you don’t seem to get” is this.

If you are teaching the Faith to children, you teach The FAITH.
You don’t teach the variety of linguistic appraoches and meanings
“needed” for a fuller understanding.
No such things are needed for understanding by children.
Children are children.

St Paul reminds all that new Christians (for example) are given milk - simple truth.

Later, MUCH later, they are able to receive and digest meant - complications /nuances regarding the study of Scriptures and Theology.

Hope you can “get it” REGARDING THESE TWO DIFFERENT APPROACHES.
I’m sorry if I treat the kids I teach like they are capable of learning and discerning. You learned your religion when it was my way or the highway. That doesn’t work anymore. there are too many outside influences that have a stronger hold than I do. If they know why they believe they are more likely to keep believing. You don’t know the age I teach. Children are not stupid .
 
I’m sorry if I treat the kids I teach like they are capable of learning and discerning. You learned your religion when it was my way or the highway. That doesn’t work anymore. there are too many outside influences that have a stronger hold than I do. If they know why they believe they are more likely to keep believing. You don’t know the age I teach. Children are not stupid .
I have been working with children for more than 40+ yrs - usually with teens.
Any adult with an active conscience is obliged to treat children as children,
not as mini-adults. As a TEACHER, you need to learn this. ASAP.
 
I have been working with children for more than 40+ yrs - usually with teens.
Any adult with an active conscience is obliged to treat children as children,
not as mini-adults. As a TEACHER, you need to learn this. ASAP.
children can 't think? What are you talking about?
 
I’m sorry if I treat the kids I teach like they are capable of learning and discerning. You learned your religion when it was my way or the highway. That doesn’t work anymore. there are too many outside influences that have a stronger hold than I do. If they know why they believe they are more likely to keep believing. You don’t know the age I teach. Children are not stupid .
Rather simplistic and dismissive of people, I believe. I wonder why so many people of my parents’ and grandparents’ generation (who were emphatically not stupid, and whose general curricula for high school puts today’s to shame) were able to ‘keep believing’ (and who, like my grandfather, not only read the Bible but read it in the original Latin and Greek, knew Hebrew as well, and had a vast library with books on every imaginable subject), were able to learn and to keep the faith. Why do you think that ‘former’ ways didn’t treat the children as if they were capable? How did YOU learn, anyway, if it was all so terrible?

For that matter, how come Tostig the thane, and Swithin the serf, Philomela the peasant girl, etc.,even if illiterate, poor, and laboring from sun up to sundown every day of the year, were able to ‘keep the faith’?

Were people just stupid all those centuries? Then how come some of the best thinkers lived then? How come so many of the ‘poor’ became aware of those thinkers through ‘oral’ lectures?

All those years when nobody was catering to the ‘needs’ of the young. IF they were lucky enough to be able to learn at all! Because education wasn’t a right. It wasn’t guaranteed. You had to work for it! Nobody was worried about how it might be too ‘much’ for them to learn, or that they needed to have a ‘voice’ in what, how, when, and why they would condescend to actually ‘learn’ (or at least, sit, lounge, or stroll in and out of some room and perhaps (between listening to the I-pod or texting one’s friends) checking out on-line articles and ‘learning’ about something. . .

I don’t want people to be ‘bullied’ but mercy me, many (not all) of today’s students are coddled beyond belief and lazy beyond belief. Millions of poor people (not all children) would have literally given their last coin or drop of blood to have the OPPORTUNITY to open a book, to sit in a room and be taught, without fear of being sold, or having a war break out, or simply being knocked on the head and killed by wandering thugs. . .and so many youth today whine about how ‘boring’ school is or how they don’t see the ‘point’ to learning some ‘dumb stuff’ and it all has to be made ‘exciting’ for them.

You might think I’m just a harsh old biddy. . .but this harsh old biddy’s daughter graduated college as valedictorian. Especially when it came to English, she learned from what I taught her at home more than the ‘fluff’ honors courses at her high school! (Senior English honors involved discussing the works of three prominent black women writers --and there is nothing wrong with black women writers, but these children had never heard of Milton, Pope, Addison, or even Thoreau, Emerson, or Hawthorne! Chaucer was a FOOTNOTE, It was pitiful.)

You’re right, children aren’t stupid. . .now OR then. We weren’t stupid brainwashed morons when we learned that thinking didn’t mean answering every question with another ‘but why’ as if there were never a definitive ‘because.’ And that it was as much critical thinking to ACCEPT, on reasoned reflection, a teaching as it would be to REJECT it.
 
Our goal in life is to attain heaven, not to be priests. Both St. Monica and St. Augustine made it, as you say, by different routes. This is my point with the priesthood. Some people are called to serve God as priests, like St. Augustine, while others are called to simply remain in the background and pray, like St. Monica. Both are needed.

If we have investigated and still do not ‘get’ the answer, we must still accept the Church’s Teaching over our own conclusion.

I like to use Mary’s ‘Fiat’ to help me with this. Mary probably did not understand all of what God was doing with her at the Annunciation but she humbly submitted in obedience.
I have not advocated for female priests. I merely posted an article in which the Vatican lumped advocating female priests and pedophilia in the same paper and called both grave sins.
the thread got interesting when I thought of things I had never thought of before. The mental challenge was quite interesting. i can’t say I agree with all the posters but the conversation was fun.
It was more interesting to me than the threads that deal with conquering masturbation which seemed to get so many reponses or gay bashing which seems to be popular around here.
THere seems to be an auto-response reaction without any debate. i guess it works around here but I like to be challenged.
 
Rather simplistic and dismissive of people, I believe. I wonder why so many people of my parents’ and grandparents’ generation (who were emphatically not stupid, and whose general curricula for high school puts today’s to shame) were able to ‘keep believing’ (and who, like my grandfather, not only read the Bible but read it in the original Latin and Greek, knew Hebrew as well, and had a vast library with books on every imaginable subject), were able to learn and to keep the faith. Why do you think that ‘former’ ways didn’t treat the children as if they were capable? How did YOU learn, anyway, if it was all so terrible?

For that matter, how come Tostig the thane, and Swithin the serf, Philomela the peasant girl, etc.,even if illiterate, poor, and laboring from sun up to sundown every day of the year, were able to ‘keep the faith’?

Were people just stupid all those centuries? Then how come some of the best thinkers lived then? How come so many of the ‘poor’ became aware of those thinkers through ‘oral’ lectures?

All those years when nobody was catering to the ‘needs’ of the young. IF they were lucky enough to be able to learn at all! Because education wasn’t a right. It wasn’t guaranteed. You had to work for it! Nobody was worried about how it might be too ‘much’ for them to learn, or that they needed to have a ‘voice’ in what, how, when, and why they would condescend to actually ‘learn’ (or at least, sit, lounge, or stroll in and out of some room and perhaps (between listening to the I-pod or texting one’s friends) checking out on-line articles and ‘learning’ about something. . .

I don’t want people to be ‘bullied’ but mercy me, many (not all) of today’s students are coddled beyond belief and lazy beyond belief. Millions of poor people (not all children) would have literally given their last coin or drop of blood to have the OPPORTUNITY to open a book, to sit in a room and be taught, without fear of being sold, or having a war break out, or simply being knocked on the head and killed by wandering thugs. . .and so many youth today whine about how ‘boring’ school is or how they don’t see the ‘point’ to learning some ‘dumb stuff’ and it all has to be made ‘exciting’ for them.

You might think I’m just a harsh old biddy. . .but this harsh old biddy’s daughter graduated college as valedictorian. Especially when it came to English, she learned from what I taught her at home more than the ‘fluff’ honors courses at her high school! (Senior English honors involved discussing the works of three prominent black women writers --and there is nothing wrong with black women writers, but these children had never heard of Milton, Pope, Addison, or even Thoreau, Emerson, or Hawthorne! Chaucer was a FOOTNOTE, It was pitiful.)

You’re right, children aren’t stupid. . .now OR then. We weren’t stupid brainwashed morons when we learned that thinking didn’t mean answering every question with another ‘but why’ as if there were never a definitive ‘because.’ And that it was as much critical thinking to ACCEPT, on reasoned reflection, a teaching as it would be to REJECT it.
Ditto, Tantum Ergo -
my father also learned to read and DISCUSS the Bible in Latin and Greek in high school.

Via Dolorosa, you said:
“We teach children not to take the bible literally.”
So you said.
BIZARRE.

Now you want say that you teach children to take the TRUTH of the Bible literally?
It would be so wonderful to hear that from you.
(Can you understand the distinction?)
 
Ditto, Tantum Ergo -
my father also learned to read and DISCUSS the Bible in Latin and Greek in high school.

Via Dolorosa, you said:
“We teach children not to take the bible literally.”
So you said.
BIZARRE.

Now you want say that you teach children to take the TRUTH of the Bible literally?
It would be so wonderful to hear that from you.
(Can you understand the distinction?)
I’m sorry, I don’t understand the question. Do you think you can keep the caps out of the discussion unless they really necessary. It causes confusion. I don’t know who said what and who is asking what.
 
God created the whole universe out of nothing, i’m sure getting a woman pregnant without a man or without sperm would be peanuts
Indeed. The intriguing question is how God did it.
besdies, are we going to waste our time debating something none of us can answer? since no one was there and there were no modern medical equipment to capture the process, how can we know for sure which opinion or theory is the right one?
Clearly, we cannot know for sure. If you regard it as a waste of time, don’t debate it. Some of us regard it as intriguing to consider what Jesus’ genome was like. Was it semitic? On Christmas cards He is portrayed as nordic. If that is wrong, it is so for genetic reasons.
 
I’m sorry, I don’t understand the question. Do you think you can keep the caps out of the discussion unless they really necessary. It causes confusion. I don’t know who said what and who is asking what.
I’ve confused you?
Don’t you imagine that you routinely confuse young students?

You teach children to dismiss any literal belief in the bible.
Yet much is to be believed literally.

Virgin birth.
Miracles of Christ.
Crucicfixion and Resurrection.

Yes. I agree that you are confused.
The question: how confused are you?
 
Folks, you’re all over the place and you’re starting to be rude to each other and to the Church. Stay on topic, which is the article in the OP, not each other.

Thomas Casey
Moderator
 
Thank you for your words. I easily agree with you…It wasn’t my intention to use your comments to vent a little of the frustration of the last few days. The comments you make I find encouraging and yet you have such a better way than I for speaking it. Hopefully I can learn from your example as I continue to be a part of this web site. Peace and Joy
Thank you, philiswilling – I look forward to continued conversation!
 
Regarding the Aramaic Lord’s Prayer, I don’t think the diocesan theologian did very much research…or the poster is distorting the theologian’s presentation. The earliest written examples of the Lord’s Prayer is in Greek. The Aramaic versions were probably copied from the earlier Greek versions. There is no reason to believe that a translation into Aramaic from Greek would be an accurate representation of Our Lord’s words. I will continue to put my trust in the Apostles and the Early Church Fathers.

Here is an interesting blog about it: aramaicdesigns.blogspot.com/2007/06/o-father-mother-birther-of-cosmos.html
 
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