Vatican makes 'new generation' cardinal head of key German archdiocese

[Dawnia]

Couples that are unmarried but committed to each other are not necessarily fornicating. Those are two different things. Do you think that fiances and close friends of different sexes are all fornicating?

Seriously? When sex is involved…yes.

 

[Dawnia]

Both are sins that wind a soul in Hell no doubt about it but some sins are worse than others (murder is worse than desiring your neighbours Ferrari). A heterosexual couple who commit pre-marital sex has a chance of straightening out (abstinence until properly married) but not for a same sex couple.

I’m pretty sure life is a pass/fail course. Regardless of the severity of your sin, your punishment is the same.

 

[YoungTradCath]

I don’t want to get involved in the “this one is worse, no this one is!” conversation. I just want to say, that aside, we can’t equate premarital sex and homosexual relationships. They aren’t the same thing.

Again: to make it crystal clear, I am not saying this or that is worse, because that’s beside the point. I’m saying they’re different.

 

[anthony022071]

Seriously? When sex is involved…yes.

I wasn’t talking about unmarried couples having sex. I was talking about unmarried couples who are committed to each other. That does not mean they are fornicating.

 

[anthony022071]

I don’t want to get involved in the “this one is worse, no this one is!” conversation. I just want to say, that aside, we can’t equate premarital sex and homosexual relationships. They aren’t the same thing.

Again: to make it crystal clear, I am not saying this or that is worse, because that’s beside the point. I’m saying they’re different.

Homosexuality is worse. It goes directly against creation and natural law.

“Basing itself on sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered. They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved” (Catechism of the Catholic Church 2357).

“For this cause God delivered them up to shameful affections. For their women have changed the natural use into that use which is against nature. And, in like manner, the men also, leaving the natural use of the women, have burned in their lusts one towards another, men with men working that which is filthy, and receiving in themselves the recompense which was due to their error. . . . Who, having known the justice of God, did not understand that they who do such things, are worthy of death; and not only they that do them, but they also that consent to them that do them.”—Romans 1:26-27, 32

St. John Chrysostom:

“All passions are dishonorable, for the soul is even more prejudiced and degraded by sin than is the body by disease; but the worst of all passions is lust between men. . . . The sins against nature are more difficult and less rewarding, so much so that one cannot even say that they procure pleasure, since true pleasure is only the one according to nature. But when God abandons a man, everything is turned upside down! Therefore, not only are their passions [of the homosexuals] satanic, but their lives are diabolic. . . . So I say to you that these are even worse than murderers, and that it would be better to die than to live in such dishonor. A murderer only separates the soul from the body, whereas these destroy the soul inside the body. . . . There is nothing, absolutely nothing more mad or damaging than this perversity.”

St. Augustine:

“Sins against nature, therefore, like the sin of Sodom, are abominable and deserve punishment whenever and wherever they are committed. If all nations committed them, all alike would be held guilty of the same charge in God’s law, for our Maker did not prescribe that we should use each other in this way. In fact, the relationship that we ought to have with God is itself violated when our nature, of which He is Author, is desecrated by perverted lust.”

tanbooks.com/doct/church_sodomy.htm

 

[YoungTradCath]

Homosexuality is worse. It goes directly against creation and natural law.

“Basing itself on sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered. They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved” (Catechism of the Catholic Church 2357).

“For this cause God delivered them up to shameful affections. For their women have changed the natural use into that use which is against nature. And, in like manner, the men also, leaving the natural use of the women, have burned in their lusts one towards another, men with men working that which is filthy, and receiving in themselves the recompense which was due to their error. . . . Who, having known the justice of God, did not understand that they who do such things, are worthy of death; and not only they that do them, but they also that consent to them that do them.”—Romans 1:26-27, 32

St. John Chrysostom:

“All passions are dishonorable, for the soul is even more prejudiced and degraded by sin than is the body by disease; but the worst of all passions is lust between men. . . . The sins against nature are more difficult and less rewarding, so much so that one cannot even say that they procure pleasure, since true pleasure is only the one according to nature. But when God abandons a man, everything is turned upside down! Therefore, not only are their passions [of the homosexuals] satanic, but their lives are diabolic. . . . So I say to you that these are even worse than murderers, and that it would be better to die than to live in such dishonor. A murderer only separates the soul from the body, whereas these destroy the soul inside the body. . . . There is nothing, absolutely nothing more mad or damaging than this perversity.”

St. Augustine:

“Sins against nature, therefore, like the sin of Sodom, are abominable and deserve punishment whenever and wherever they are committed. If all nations committed them, all alike would be held guilty of the same charge in God’s law, for our Maker did not prescribe that we should use each other in this way. In fact, the relationship that we ought to have with God is itself violated when our nature, of which He is Author, is desecrated by perverted lust.”

tanbooks.com/doct/church_sodomy.htm

Furthermore, my post should not be construed as a statement that we can’t say which is worse. I was just making the point that, that aside, they aren’t the same.

 

[FollowChrist34]

Well, I’m not trying to say Card. Woelki is a staunch traditionalist or anything. But given that the article is clearly trying to paint him as a “liberal”, and the best evidence they can come up with is one ambiguous comment, thats not too bad.

And he is FAR better than the suggested alternatives.

So this is the best that could be done … that’s a little worrying, especially in view of this comment. I don’t know anything about this Card. Woelki but this remark did jump out at me, fair or unfair. It’s light years from official Church doctrine on this issue. Probably another “misquote” that will be “cleared up”… Germany is a different kettle of fish speaking culturally than the States. Maybe that’s part of what’s up.