Vatican official says "keep abuse confidential"

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Soutane said:
So have someone read it to you,you might learn something and avoid further accusations of calumny,and learn the truth as to how the Church is excising this cancer and how protestant denominations are just as guilty but are still in the"cover-up"stage; but the Truth will out about Protestant Sin soon as well…
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I have never said the only the CC was guilty. I might be an old lady but I am not stupid. I know that this evilness happens everywhere. It all needs to be cleaned. And trust me when it is brought to my attention I do say the same thing i say now. Clean house.

Oops one more thing I praise God whenever or whoever is brought out of the closet, whatever church or organization it is.
 
tweetymom said:
I have never said the only the CC was guilty. I might be an old lady but I am not stupid. I know that this evilness happens everywhere. It all needs to be cleaned. And trust me when it is brought to my attention I do say the same thing i say now. Clean house.

Oops one more thing I praise God whenever or whoever is brought out of the closet, whatever church or organization it is.
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BUT the Catholic House IS being cleaned.That’s why I posted all those articles which would have demonstrated that fact to you.By repeating the mantra of "clean house"you are intimating that it is NOT,which is a calumny.Do you not understand?
 
Soutane said:
BUT the Catholic House IS being cleaned.That’s why I posted all those articles which would have demonstrated that fact to you.By repeating the mantra of "clean house"you are intimating that it is NOT,which is a calumny.Do you not understand?
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Ok so you say I will wait and see what is done in Germany and Ireland. I suppose I can say clean house all I want, so you can use calumny.
 
tweetymom said:
Abuse is sick, abusers sick, cover ups are sick. If you think for one minute these abusers and the ones who cover up are going to go to confession, it is almost laughable, if it wasn’t so sick.I realize other churches and people on the outside of the church committ these sick deeds. do you think this would be such a big deal if it wasn’t hid under the carpet for years? YOU NEVER ADMIT ANYTHING UNTIL YOU ARE CAUGHT WITH YOUR PANTS DOWN.

I have been molested and it was covered up for years. so I know where I speak. Clean house Church and start at the top and work on down.
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Not trying to get nosey, but in the church? Was it dealt with by the law?
 
Govan78 said:
I understand the 2nd part, but not the 1st. Why shouldn’t a confessor encourage the priest who is confessing to disclose his acts publicly or his superiors?

If I stole something and confessed it to my priest, he would (or should) encourage me to make restitution to the person I stole from. If I don’t take his advice, then that’s on my conscience, not his. Isn’t making restitution to those you stole from in the Catechism?
This statement from the Vatican official is hard for me to comprehend, morally.

I don’t think praying some mysteries of the Rosary and vowing to try to never to do it again is an adequate way to be sorry. Deciding to face the music for your crimes is an adequate way to be sorry.
The former is fine for sins against yourself and God that no one but God really cares about, but when it comes to serious wrongs against others, the sinner should be encouraged by their priest to trust God enough to…face the music. Otherwise, judging by this statement from the Vatican Official, the sacrament of reconciliation comes off as little more than superstition. I find it hard to believe that God would be pleased with this Vatican Official for encouraging confessors to be enablers of cowardice.
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Exactly.
 
tweetymom said:
Ok so you say I will wait and see what is done in Germany and Ireland. I suppose I can say clean house all I want, so you can use calumny.
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You’re agenda is showing dear.Au Revoir,Adios,Anjumarla,Ciao,Salaam,Adieu,Kíhtwám ka-wápamitin,Fahung baadaluvang,Arivaderci,Iana biok niak,Hooroo,Cheerio,Salut,

.
 
JimG said:
Civil law does not require priests to report the contents of confessions they hear sacramentally.

And second, exactly how would a priest confessor be guilty of obstruction of justice if he does not know who was confessing to him?

In my parish, there is always quite a line at the confessional. The priest doesn’t know who is confessing, and after hearing dozens of confessions, wouldn’t be able to separate them out anyway. Or if someone confessed child abuse, is he to jump out of the confessional to identify and nab them?

Or if I report having an affair, is he obligated to inform my wife?

In any case, I’d be surprised if serial criminal abusers take the matter to confession–at least not until they’re caught.
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You are quite correct that civil law recognizes the sanctity of the confessional. Every now and then we hear or read something in the news regarding a prosecutor incorrectly challenging it.

But if I had an affair, I know what my priest would do. Absolution or not, he’d want to meet with me outside the confessional. Absolution, imo, would depend on the circumstances.
Would he want me to tell my wife? Probably, if my wife had a suspicion, confronted me, and I lied. The wounds have to be healed, and that begins with honesty in a relationship.
What about the third party? Does she think you love her, and that you’re single? Who is she – wife’s friend or an in-law?
Most importantly, what if a pregnancy is involved?
Point is, it all depends, so your affair analogy is flawed, imo.

But you make an excellent point with: “In any case, I’d be surprised if serial criminal abusers take the matter to confession–at least not until they’re caught.”
I think your suspicion that the number of serial abusers who confess are few and far between is correct.
 
dnu said:
“A priest cannot reveal anything confessed to him in the sacrament of reconciliation.”

Well, to repeat what I said, he can share the prison cell for obstruction of justice if that is the case.

He is bound by civil law, if he does not report it, he is just as guilty as the perpetrator.

A criminal act is a criminal act, no exceptions.
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So God has appointed you as his judge,
You do need to to be informed about the seal of confession .
There is a difference about you judging what is sin, and the judging of the sinner. Only God can do that. The priest is there for the sinner seeking repentence, not to try and judge him.🤷:eek:Carlan
 
LtTony said:
You are quite correct that civil law recognizes the sanctity of the confessional. Every now and then we hear or read something in the news regarding a prosecutor incorrectly challenging it.

But if I had an affair, I know what my priest would do. Absolution or not, he’d want to meet with me outside the confessional. Absolution, imo, would depend on the circumstances.
Would he want me to tell my wife? Probably, if my wife had a suspicion, confronted me, and I lied. The wounds have to be healed, and that begins with honesty in a relationship.
What about the third party? Does she think you love her, and that you’re single? Who is she – wife’s friend or an in-law?
Most importantly, what if a pregnancy is involved?
Point is, it all depends, so your affair analogy is flawed, imo.

But you make an excellent point with: “In any case, I’d be surprised if serial criminal abusers take the matter to confession–at least not until they’re caught.”
I think your suspicion that the number of serial abusers who confess are few and far between is correct.
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With respect to confessing having an affair, you raise some good questions. But in any case, the priest cannot do or say anything which would reveal or tend to reveal the contents of the confession. And if every priest insisted on meeting outside the confessional before absolution, it would have the effect of undermining the sacrament.

As to telling the spouse about the affair, it might help the healing, or it might destroy the marriage. I know of a case personally where disclosure destroyed a marriage that would otherwise have been saved.
 
JimG said:
With respect to confessing having an affair, you raise some good questions. But in any case, the priest cannot do or say anything which would reveal or tend to reveal the contents of the confession. And if every priest insisted on meeting outside the confessional before absolution, it would have the effect of undermining the sacrament.

As to telling the spouse about the affair, it might help the healing, or it might destroy the marriage. I know of a case personally where disclosure destroyed a marriage that would otherwise have been saved.
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As in the case of abuse the truth will come out sooner than later, as it will in te case of an affair. Better to admit when wrong. You might take a licking but it is better all the way around.
 
LoyalViews said:
Yes, keep it confidential! Just bringing it public will cause more scandal. The church does not need any more scandal, especially after the rock-up in Ireland! Bringing it thin to the public will get more people to think that all priests are abusers, and that the church is unsafe … which we ALL know is untrue! It will cause discrimination and more stereotypes!
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That is exactly the mind-set that has led the Church to the point at which it stands now.
 
LtTony said:
But if I had an affair, I know what my priest would do. Absolution or not, he’d want to meet with me outside the confessional. Absolution, imo, would depend on the circumstances.
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This could be contrary to Canon Law, as quoted above. Absolution depends on the penitent heart, not the circumstances. The Seal of Confession extends to even acting on information received during confession. A priest can suggest counciling, but he can not withold absolution because a penitent does not desire to meet with him outside the confessional.
 
tweetymom said:
As in the case of abuse the truth will come out sooner than later, as it will in te case of an affair. Better to admit when wrong. You might take a licking but it is better all the way around.
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You may be right; I think you are more correct when it comes to cases of continuing abuse or continuing infidelity.

The only point I want to make with regard to spouses is that they are not each others’ confessors. They go to confession to a priest to confess their sins, not to each other.

Continuing infidelity will surely be discovered, and will destroy a marriage. The instance I had in mind was a case not of continuing infidelity, but of one-time drunken stupidity, followed by consuming remorse. The person, in my opinion and that of others, confessed to the spouse not out of a sense of justice, but simply to relieve his own feelings of guilt. Assuaging his own feelings took precedence over preserving his marriage. A mistake, in my view. In any case it’s off topic, and I’ve no doubt that possibly the majority of folks in this tell-all age will disagree.
 
Carlan said:
So God has appointed you as his judge,
You do need to to be informed about the seal of confession .
There is a difference about you judging what is sin, and the judging of the sinner. Only God can do that. The priest is there for the sinner seeking repentence, not to try and judge him.🤷:eek:Carlan
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No one is trying to be anyones judge. If you think these priest went to confession and said I just molested so and so. That indeed is a laugh. They don’t think there is anything wtong in what they do, so why confess?
 
JimG said:
You may be right; I think you are more correct when it comes to cases of continuing abuse or continuing infidelity.

The only point I want to make with regard to spouses is that they are not each others’ confessors. They go to confession to a priest to confess their sins, not to each other.

Continuing infidelity will surely be discovered, and will destroy a marriage. The instance I had in mind was a case not of continuing infidelity, but of one-time drunken stupidity, followed by consuming remorse. The person, in my opinion and that of others, confessed to the spouse not out of a sense of justice, but simply to relieve his own feelings of guilt. Assuaging his own feelings took precedence over preserving his marriage. A mistake, in my view. In any case it’s off topic, and I’ve no doubt that possibly the majority of folks in this tell-all age will disagree.
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Agreed.Been abused part of a cover up had an unfaithful 1st husband who I chose to forgive and continue to live with for 43 years. Had it to do all of it again Would have screamed at the top of my lungs about the abuse and cover upsooner. And would have gotten out of my marriage. People donot deserve abuse from anyone.

Am i bitter somewhat, but Jesus has saved me fom the anger. I just get riled up that it never ends with the Church.
 
tweetymom said:
Agreed.Been abused part of a cover up had an unfaithful 1st husband who I chose to forgive and continue to live with for 43 years. Had it to do all of it again Would have screamed at the top of my lungs about the abuse and cover upsooner. And would have gotten out of my marriage. People donot deserve abuse from anyone.

Am i bitter somewhat, but Jesus has saved me fom the anger. I just get riled up that it never ends with the Church.
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When it comes to abuse by priests, one can’t help but think what in the world they were doing or thinking, to allow so many abusers into the priesthood and handle the cases so poorly. I’m afraid that this bad group has tarnished the image of all priests, including even what I am convinced are some truly good ones both young and old.
 
JimG said:
When it comes to abuse by priests, one can’t help but think what in the world they were doing or thinking, to allow so many abusers into the priesthood and handle the cases so poorly. I’m afraid that this bad group has tarnished the image of all priests, including even what I am convinced are some truly good ones both young and old.
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See that is the realy bad thing about the cover up and the abuse, it gives the whole church a bad name out in the world.
 
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