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ajk19
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I reject the Papacy (the idea the Pope is infallible for example), praying to Mary, the Catechism, basically making you to do certain things lest you be in sin, etc. Basically I pretty much reject the whole thing now.
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Illini
Guest
This is a very old story. The video itself is from 2003. I read the document in question, called crimen solicitationis, and in no way ordered a “cover up.” It was merely a process meant to try priests accused of sexual abuses committed in the context of confession while preserving the seal of the confessional, for the benefit of the accuser. The proceedings were essentially part of the confession, and therefore the sacramental seal applied. The document’s excommunication provisions were with respect to violations of the seal. Victims themselves were not “thrown out of the church” for telling the police or anyone else about the abuse. Notably, the document called for severe church punishments for sexual abuse of minors. If only our bishops followed this document in the 1970’s!
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Code:
It is important to distinguish the document itself from the sensationalist "interpretation" offered by CBS and the plaintiff's attorney interviewed. In my opinion, CBS was shameless in pronouncing this document an "order to cover up at the highest level" in its never-ending campaign to discredit the Church.
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revelations
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Don’t worry…un-repented, the punishment will be there. Ultimate justice will be served.
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revelations
Guest
I think what you mean to say is you reject the PRIMACY of the pope.
The pope is only infallible on matters of doctrine and morals. It should be noted that the last infallible declaration was like 100 years ago? Someone correct me on that one.
You don’t have to pray to Mary, no one is twisting your arm. It would however, be a good idea to pray to Jesus
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bones_IV
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By the way, you can’t be pro-choice. That’s murder.
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ajk19
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That’s true, was more referring to here on Earth though.
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ajk19
Guest
However you want to call it, I still reject it.
See that’s something that bugs me, it effectively makes the Pope a God who can do no wrong there, when he’s a sinful human being just as much as anyone else is.
Jesus is the only person I plan to pray to, not Mary, not the saints, not any of that.You don’t have to pray to Mary, no one is twisting your arm. It would however, be a good idea to pray to Jesus
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revelations
Guest
Hm, well the point of the quote was to show that calling anything related to abortion, euthanasia, etc, Pro-Choice is called such just to hide the fact that it’s really pro-death. This is a slogan on posters at my local university, but i guess we’re all pro-life here anyways eh?
Thanks for pointing it out
…there we go…that sig should be a little better now
…
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pnewton
Guest
What does this have to do with rape? I thought we were talking about sexual abuse. If you do not know the diference, perhaps that is why you are so easily fooled by what you see in a story half a decade old. I noticed the OP has now admitted to his own prejudice. I used to have a saying that truth does not need embelishment. It is misrepresentation from people with an axe to grind that is always accompanied by exageration and lies.
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revelations
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Yup the Pope goes to confession just like the rest of us. Isn’t interesting though, that some of the tyrant popes of the medieval age never declared any heretical doctrine? If you truly believe what Jesus Christ told us the church is under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
Anyways you’ve made up your mind, peace of Christ be with you and good luck in all your endeavors
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ajk19
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That isn’t the point though, so what if he goes to confession (which is just as unbiblical as some of the other stuff in the church anyway), that doesn’t mean anything. The point is Catholics have turned him from a mere mortal to man who can’t be wrong on certain issues, which is ridiculous in my book.
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ajk19
Guest
For what it’s worth, it’s not as if I knew what the “exaggerations” (not that I believe that really)as you call them were here, I saw what I saw, and decided to post it here to see what you guys would have to say on it.
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Rolltide
Guest
Ahhh… ok. I see your problem, and it’s a common one misunderstanding among Protestants. You’ve confused “impeccible” with “infallible”. The pope is infallible, but NOT impeccible. Infallibility has nothing to do with the pope’s personal behavior. There have been several corrupt popes, most famously Alexander VI. Impeccibility would mean that a person cannot commit a sin, like Christ. Popes are sinners just like everyone else on earth. It is possible, even from the Catholic standpoint, that a pope could indeed end up in hell if they committed corrupt actions in their personal lives.
Infallibility, however, means that the Holy Spirit protects the pope from preaching a doctrinal error about faith and morals. (For example, the pope could not “un-proclaim” the Trinity, or something like that.) Further, the pope has only officially invoked infallibility TWICE in the last 200 years! Once, in 1851, when he dogmatically declared the Immaculate Conception, and in 1950, when he dogmatically declared the Assumption of Mary. In order to be an infallible statement, he more or less has to officially announce that it is going to be as such.
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pnewton
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I understand. Then you know that the vast majority was not rape, but homosexual behavior with adolescents. It also was a small minority of priests. Finally, if we are to look at a document this old, we must not view it with twenty-first century knowledge of sexual behavior and experience, but with any older mindset that saw all of this sort of deviancy as curable. This was not a Catholic theory, but the prevailing professional opinions at the time.
Everyone is quick to criticize the Catholic Church for crossing from faith into science. Here the Catholics Church accepted the current scientific thought at the time (which was inaccurate) and is still lambasted forty years later. Anyone who can not see the illogic and unfairness in this is either a fool or blinded by their own prejudice.
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Rolltide
Guest
- Do people at your church ask other members of the congregation to pray for sick members of of the church?
- Do people completely cease to exist when they die, or do their souls continue on eternally, either in heaven or hell?
I confess to almighty God,
and to you, my brothers and sisters,
that I have sinned through my own fault.
in my thoughts and in my words,
in what I have done,
and what I have failed to do;
and I ask blessed Mary ever virgin,
all the angels and saints,
and you, my brothers and sisters,
to pray for me to the Lord our God.
Note that we are asking them to pray FOR us, and with us, but that we do not pray TO them. Further, we are asking EVERYONE to pray with us, the living, those in heaven, the angels, EVERYONE in unison praying to God together.
Or how about the Hail Mary?
Hail Mary, full of grace
the Lord is with thee
Blessed art thou among women
and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus
Holy Mary, Mother of God,
Pray for us sinners, now, and at the hour of our death
Amen
Again, note that we are asking her to pray FOR us, and that we are not praying TO her.
If I ask Bob in my congregation to pray for my sick grandmother, I’m most certainly not praying TO him, am I?
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ajk19
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Not in a church at the moment so I wouldn’t know.
Their souls do continue on eternally, yes but God never once instructed us to pray to ANYONE but Him.
Besides that, consider the fact that only God is omnipotent, and can be anywhere at anytime, seeing and hearing everything. No other person can do that, not Mary, not any of the Saints, only God (and likewise his son). That pretty much makes it impossible to pray to Saints to begin with, since there is no guarantee it will be heard. That’s something God Himself (along with his son) can only offer.
Again in both of these cases, there is no guarantee she is going to be able to hear your prayers to start with, as she is not capable of being everywhere and seeing everything.
That’s entirely different, because he’s actually alive in the flesh.
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MelanieAnne
Guest
So, with all due respect, what are you doing here, at a Catholic Forum, posting about Catholic news? Are you trying to show us Catholics the error of our ways? Are you looking to see if your previous decisions were faulty? Are you hoping to learn about the church you have rejected (since you obviously didn’t understand some important doctrines.) What? What is your motivation to post here, now that you have “pretty much” rejected the “whole thing” of the ONE Church founded by Jesus Christ?
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Rolltide
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Correct. I’m not praying to them. I’m asking them to pray for me. Huge difference.
Again correct. However, God, being all powerful, most certainly has the power to allow the dead to be privy to any knowledge he desires.
Do the dead actually do anything in heaven besides just be dead? Do they praise God while they’re there? If so, they are speaking with, and thus, praying, to God… (Again, you’re saying that we pray to them, we don’t. I honestly don’t mean to nitpick, but the semantics DO matter in this case.) Plus, if they’re actually praying to him face to face, that does suggest that they would get some feedback…
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ajk19
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The Bible says nothing about any mediators between God and man, in fact it rebukes such a thing.
Yes, but don’t you think the Bible would say that to be the case if it were true?
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ajk19
Guest
Well in this particular instance, I was attempting to show you guys what is really going on (or what would seem to be anyway), in regards to the behind the scenes aspect of the church.
As for it, being the ONE church, I can’t agree with that. God is not in a church, not any church for that matter. Not to say you shouldn’t go to church or anything like that (I do plan to start going to non-denominational one soon in fact), but you don’t need specifically as a means of salvation. God is present in anyone who desires and wills a relationship with him, whether they go to church or not.
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