Vatican orders bishop who denied Holocaust to recant if he is to take office as a prelate

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The Vatican has ordered an ultra-traditionalist bishop to publicly recant his views denying the Holocaust.

A statement said Bishop Richard Williamson must “unequivocally” distance himself from his statements to serve in the Roman Catholic Church.

The Vatican also said that the Pope had not been aware of the bishop’s views when he lifted excommunications on him and three other bishops last month.
Earlier, a senior cardinal acknowledged the Vatican had mishandled the issue.

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7869995.stm
 
Good. If, as it says in the article, the Holy Father really didn’t know about this, perhaps he should make a change of adviser within the Vatican.
 
That’s great. It’ll give Williamson some time to learn about real history and hopefully come to realize how mistaken he was. Otherwise, the progress with SSPX can continue and he’ll just never get his suspension lifted.
 
The Church should be independent of public opinion, so I hate to think the Holy Father bowed to Merkle’s and others’ demands and took the politically correct line instead of standing on principle. The fact is, the Church owes no one an apology and did nothing wrong in lifting the excommunications, even that of Williamson.

Everyone is quick to judge this bishop, but does anyone know if his views arise out of hatred and not simply on the basis of a (most probably) mistaken view of the historical evidence? Does his mere questioning automatically make him an anti-Semite? I find it disturbing that public opinion–or rather the opinions of a select but powerful few–constitutes a coercive force so powerful that it can discipline even the Church, enforcing its own brand of orthodoxy in belief, speech, and action.

The fact is, the Church must not try to accommodate itself to the world, because that it what it means to become corrupt.
 
This only compounds the problem of the Pope lifting the excommunication in the first place.

I said before it was a mistake, this decision helps prove my case.

Jim
 
DGHunter said:
Everyone is quick to judge this bishop, but does anyone know if his views arise out of hatred and not simply on the basis of a (most probably) mistaken view of the historical evidence? Does his mere questioning automatically make him an anti-Semite? I find it disturbing that public opinion–or rather the opinions of a select but powerful few–constitutes a coercive force so powerful that it can discipline even the Church, enforcing its own brand of orthodoxy in belief, speech, and action.
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Well, I suppose that it’s just possible that, one day, an innocent lad came across the Protocols and some StormFront literature and said ‘Wow, I better tell the world about all this!’ and had the great misfortune of never coming across any other kind of counter-information whatsoever. Then he went on to find all sorts of arcane literature about events like 9/11 and said ‘Wow, I better tell the world about all this!’ and had the great misfortune of never coming across any other counter-information whatsoever.

And I am Marie of Romania*.

(*as Dorothy Parker would put it)
 
This proves how brilliant the Pope is.

A. This affects only the one bishop, not the others or the SSPX followers.

B. This is not a matter of faith and morals but is a papal request and therefore an opportunity for the bishop to show good faith to the Pope as Pope; yet it allows him to ‘save face’ if he chooses and not comply. In any event, the Pope comes off looking great.

The ‘appearance’ of this was that ‘the Vatican’ was reinstating antiSemites. Of course, this appearance is WRONG and the Pope could have been absolutely justified to make the stance that this had nothing to do with the revoking of the excommunications, because it doesn’t. However, had he done so, the media would have tried to make things worse and relations with the Jews would have been set back years or worse.

This way, the appearance (and again, it is appearance) has been turned on its head. It’s a brilliant strategy. Now instead of the appearance of the Pope/Vatican being antiSemitic (an untrue thing), the appearance now reflects the TRUTH of the Pope being a loving, caring person who is concerned for truth and justice. Without Benedict compromising himself or appearing to ‘cave in’, the whole focus has shifted off ‘the big bad Vatican’ to the author of the entire mess itself–Bishop Williamson.

Who now has the chance to either submit (and set the precedent that he does abide by the law of the church even when it doesn’t relate to faith and morals) and make the whole transition of the SPPX smooth, and bring about union. . . or not to submit. If he doesn’t, that won’t affect the REST of the SPPX bishops or people, and they’ll know it. Instead of having the SPPX situation ‘set back’, Benedict has now made it even easier for them as they won’t be falsely accused of being antiSemitic!

I say the Pope is both brilliant AND loving. God bless him!!
 
Re: Pope Lifts Excommunications of SSPX Bishops
Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen people
Well from your post it should be pretty obvious that the Jews, all fourteen million of us, control everything from the Pope to all parliaments that make laws (that’s why no one ever dares criticize Israel)

Obviously chosen people you are a jew. Well I am a Catholic. My faith originated with the Jews and was fulfilled in Christianity.

I believe the Jews were blessed by God with a superior everything to the gentiles or pagans of pre-Christian times. I believe that if anyone were able to control the world today it could only be the Jews. I may be wrong but don’t they control money matters and media matters? I have read some of the ‘Protocols’ and one can see much of what it says Jewish conspirators were about has come to pass, irrrespective of who wrote them or copied them, or forged them. Surely that is the point of the ‘Protocols’

It is beyond belief to me that governments, who have no problem with the denial of GOD HIMSELF, should make it a crime, punishable by a long prison sentence to be of the opinion that 6 million Jews did not die in Hitler’s gas-chambers some sixty years ago. If I were a conspiracy theorist I would say this was brought about by jews for jews, a good move by Jews for many reasons.

I simply find it a co-incidence that Bishop Williamson’s opinion should ‘conveniently’ appear just as Pope Benedict XVI was lifting the excommunicated tag from the SSPX bishops. If the Jews did not want traditionalists back into the corrodoors of Rome, wouldn’t this have been a great ‘conspiracy theory’?

I have an affinity with Isreal in their conflict with the Muslims (I am on Isreal’s side), so no-one can call me anti-semite whatever that means. I would have thought that it was a bit odd for the Jews - who have just finished their slaughter in Gaza - to draw attention to themselves by calling the kettle black. Note how they argued against this slaughter NOT being a crime. You get jail for an opinion, but not for over-kill

As I heard in the interview, Bishop Williamson said he did not believe that 6 million Jews were killed in mass GAS-CHAMBERS. All pictures I have ever seen of the camps show dead-bodies and thousands of starving people in camps. Nobody denies that many, probably millions, did perish, but not all were Jews, some were Catholics, communists, gypsies, etc. and not all in gas chambers. Bishop Williamson surely does not say there were no Jews put to death in other ways.

One of these reasons could be that Rome now has to demand that the Bishop purge his opinion or face demotion from Bishop to ex-Bishop. This is the Rome that removed the crucifix from rooms that you Jews visited, yes? That would not be tolerated in a traditional Rome would it now? What traditional Bishop would visit the wailing wall and not put a catholic prayer for Jewish conversion in the cracks?
You get my drift chosen people?

Oh, and why would traditionalist Catholics prove to be a thorn in the side of the new ‘relationship’ between Rome and Jewery? Could it be that they might remind all of what that God.man on that crucifix said before His death:

"You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and he stood not in the truth; because truth is not in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof. But if I say the truth, you believe me not. (John 8: 44/45)

Finally, if what I heard on the news is correct, that Rome want the Bishop to ‘recant’ or he will be a Bishop no longer, even more hypocritical. Sure they can get the Bishop to say he was sorry he said it in an interview he probably knew would go public, but you cannot change what is in a person’s heart.
 
Everyone is quick to judge this bishop, but does anyone know if his views arise out of hatred and not simply on the basis of a (most probably) mistaken view of the historical evidence? Does his mere questioning automatically make him an anti-Semite?

(Here I am rewriting an earlier post to be more clear)

I mean, does anyone KNOW he is an anti-Semite? Is the 6 million figure to be the only historical fact exempted from scholarly scrutiny and given a special status such that, if anyone questions it, that person is justly labeled immoral, evil, malicious, or whatever?

Granted, most who take this line are guilty of hate, and I am suspicious of anyone who questions the holocaust. But the unthinking rush to judgement and the bowing-down before every interest group enjoying special status as watchdogs of opinion–these things are what are troubling.

I find it disturbing that public opinion–or rather the opinions of a select but powerful few–constitutes a coercive force so powerful that it can discipline even the Church, enforcing its own brand of orthodoxy in belief, speech, and action.

Doesn’t anyone else see a problem with the Church seeking to accommodate itself to the world? Isn’t that compromise? Political correctness is the new orthodoxy, it seems, and everyone–even the Holy Father–must fall in line or risk dire consequences.
 
DGHunter said:
Everyone is quick to judge this bishop, but does anyone know if his views arise out of hatred and not simply on the basis of a (most probably) mistaken view of the historical evidence? Does his mere questioning automatically make him an anti-Semite? .
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Well…

In a September 2002 newsletter, Williamson charges that “Judeo-Masonry is known to have been envisaging three World Wars to achieve its unified global domination…

And who is responsible for those Twin Tower attacks? He doesn’t say explicitly, but in another audio clip posted on YouTube, Williamson describes the September 11, 2001 attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon as an inside job…

:rolleyes:
 
I see this Bishops’s views as a result of being within a small religious community. Traditionalist groups are very integrative into the rest of society, and I think that has an effect on his views. And while I disagree with them, I think the Vatican made the wrong move in asking him to recant. The only stipulation for full communion status is that he accepts the Pope’s authority. Now, your taking an issue that happen nearly 60+ years ago that has nothing to do with his job as a Bishop. My concern here is that he is not going to recant, since he won’t see why this should be the main issue for his return to full communion, and that these Bishops and their communities are just going to split off again due to anger over the issue.
 
The positions of Mons. Williamson on the Shoah are absolutely unacceptable and firmly rejected by the Holy Father, as he himself remarked on the past January 28, when, referring to that brutal genocide, reaffirmed his full and unquestionable solidarity with our Brethren receivers of the First Covenant, and affirmed that the memory of that terrible genocide must lead “mankind to reflect on the unpredictable power of evil when it conquers the heart of man”, adding that the Shoah remains “for all a warning against forgetfulness, against denial or reductionism, because the violence against a single human being is violence against all”.

Bishop Williamson, for an admission to episcopal functions in the Church, will also have to declare, in an absolutely unequivocal and public manner, distance from his positions regarding the Shoah, unknown to the Holy Father in the moment of the remission of the excommunication.

The Holy Father asks to be joined by the prayers of all the faithful, so that the Lord may enlighten the path of the Church. May the effort of the Pastors and of all the faithful increase in support of the delicate and burdensome mission of the Successor of Apostle Peter as “custodian of the unity” in the Church.

From the Vatican, February 4, 2009.

cfnews.org/Vatican-Feb4-09.htm
 
Tantum_ergo said:
This proves how brilliant the Pope is…

B. This is not a matter of faith and morals but is a papal request and therefore an opportunity for the bishop to show good faith to the Pope as Pope; yet it allows him to ‘save face’ if he chooses and not comply. In any event, the Pope comes off looking great.
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I realize this is from a few days ago, but I couldn’t let this slide. While I’ll agree it was wise for Benedict to require the SSPX bishop to recant, he merely demonstrated he could climb partway out of a hole he dug for himself.
Tantum ergo:
The ‘appearance’ of this was that ‘the Vatican’ was reinstating antiSemites. Of course, this appearance is WRONG and the Pope could have been absolutely justified to make the stance that this had nothing to do with the revoking of the excommunications, because it doesn’t.
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In fact, the Vatican did take the position that the Holocaust denial by the bishop had nothing to do with his reinstatement. Critics of the Church were initially aghast that this bishop would be reinstated without his Holocaust stance being addressed, but it was soon announced that the pope had not been insensitive or naive about the effects of his actions. He had merely been ignorant about this high-profile bishop who helped lead a large schism in the Church over the past two decades.

He was able to salvage most of the damage to Jewish-Church relations, but it’s competence, not intention, that is now in question. I hardly think this makes the pope look “great” or “brilliant.”
 
Hi,

If a person denied that God was murdered on a cross or claimed that the crucifixion was legitimate because Jesus deserved it, would that be less worse than what Bishop Williamson did?

God Bless,
 
There seems to be some confusion here. The Holy Father has not asked Bishop Williamson to recant, because this is an article of faith. He has asked him to recant because as Pope he has the authority to demand that bishops keep their mouths shut.

The holocaust is one of those issues that Pope Benedict XVI feels very strongly about and is convinced that six million or so Jews did die at the hands of the Nazis, either in concentration camps, gas ovens, or by other horrific means that the Nazis came up with. Unless Bishop Wiliamson can come up with reliable historical proof that this is inaccurate, he is simply stirring up more division, which is not the role of a bishop.

When a bishop causes dissent and division, the Pope as the Bishop of Rome has the authority to silence him. As Pope Benedict said in his inaugural sermon, he is about unity within the Church and with other people of faith. The bishop’s words do not promote unity within the Church or others. They have the opposite effect. They are contrary to the Church’s agenda at this time.

If the four bishops were re-communicated with the Church it was to keep them under tighter control of the Holy Father. They can’t begin to say one thing when he says another.

On another note to the poster who said that Bishop Williamson may be demoted to an ex-bishop. There is no such thing in the Catholic Church or the Orthodox Church. I don’t think there is such a thing as an ex-bishop in Christianity. Among Catholics and Orthodox a bishop possesses the fullness of the priesthood for life. He may be suspended for life, but he will always be a full priest (bishop).

Right now, the four SSPX bishops are not allowed to exercise any episcopal functions within the Catholic Church. They are still suspended. They have no jurisdiction. They have no faculties to hear confessions or perform marriages. They may not ordain or confirm. Whether or not they my licitly celebrate mass is still a question, because they are suspended priests.

Now that they have had the excommunication lifted, they must submit to the full authority of the Holy Father. If this means that they may not make comments about the Holocaust, it is what it is.

They asked to be received into the Church again. The Holy Father himself has said that he did so out of his paternal mercy, but he does not support their ideas and he demands that they submit to his authority and to the authority of Vatican II.

He made a public statement in which he said that he was willing to dialogue with them. But he did not say that they could make statements that cause further divisions among Catholics or between the Church and people of other faiths.

This is exactly what Bishop Williamson has done. His comments have caused divisions among Catholics and between the Church and others. This is not why he was brought back. He was brought back to reduce the damage done by Archbishop Lefebvre’s disobedience.

I can understand the Pope’s order, an order that was given by Bishop Fellay, before the Pope spoke on the issue.

Fraternally,

JR 🙂
 
JReducation said:
There seems to be some confusion here. The Holy Father has not asked Bishop Williamson to recant, because this is an article of faith. He has asked him to recant because as Pope he has the authority to demand that bishops keep their mouths shut.

The holocaust is one of those issues that Pope Benedict XVI feels very strongly about and is convinced that six million or so Jews did die at the hands of the Nazis, either in concentration camps, gas ovens, or by other horrific means that the Nazis came up with. Unless Bishop Wiliamson can come up with reliable historical proof that this is inaccurate, he is simply stirring up more division, which is not the role of a bishop.

When a bishop causes dissent and division, the Pope as the Bishop of Rome has the authority to silence him. As Pope Benedict said in his inaugural sermon, he is about unity within the Church and with other people of faith. The bishop’s words do not promote unity within the Church or others. They have the opposite effect. They are contrary to the Church’s agenda at this time.

If the four bishops were re-communicated with the Church it was to keep them under tighter control of the Holy Father. They can’t begin to say one thing when he says another.

On another note to the poster who said that Bishop Williamson may be demoted to an ex-bishop. There is no such thing in the Catholic Church or the Orthodox Church. I don’t think there is such a thing as an ex-bishop in Christianity. Among Catholics and Orthodox a bishop possesses the fullness of the priesthood for life. He may be suspended for life, but he will always be a full priest (bishop).

Right now, the four SSPX bishops are not allowed to exercise any episcopal functions within the Catholic Church. They are still suspended. They have no jurisdiction. They have no faculties to hear confessions or perform marriages. They may not ordain or confirm. Whether or not they my licitly celebrate mass is still a question, because they are suspended priests.

Now that they have had the excommunication lifted, they must submit to the full authority of the Holy Father. If this means that they may not make comments about the Holocaust, it is what it is.

They asked to be received into the Church again. The Holy Father himself has said that he did so out of his paternal mercy, but he does not support their ideas and he demands that they submit to his authority and to the authority of Vatican II.

He made a public statement in which he said that he was willing to dialogue with them. But he did not say that they could make statements that cause further divisions among Catholics or between the Church and people of other faiths.

This is exactly what Bishop Williamson has done. His comments have caused divisions among Catholics and between the Church and others. This is not why he was brought back. He was brought back to reduce the damage done by Archbishop Lefebvre’s disobedience.

I can understand the Pope’s order, an order that was given by Bishop Fellay, before the Pope spoke on the issue.

Fraternally,

JR 🙂
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There are those who have a slightly different interpretation of the situation. It is believed by some that the Jews are now telling the Pope what to do. Worse, he is doing what the jews want him to do. They do not want tradition back into the Church. They want the crufixes removed when they visit Rome. They whinged in a similar fashion when the Pope restored the prayer for jewish conversion. So now the Pope is caught between his adherence to Vatican II ‘dialogue’ - which is pretend the jews do not need conversion for salvation, pretend they are a continuation of the Jews we once were before the new covenant and not what Christ called them, the sons of the Devil - and his move towards tradition now that he is pope. This chaos in a divided Rome is a punishment from God.
 
D_M said:
Hi,

If a person denied that God was murdered on a cross or claimed that the crucifixion was legitimate because Jesus deserved it, would that be less worse than what Bishop Williamson did?

God Bless,
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Yes. Not even close.
 
Valke2 said:
Yes. Not even close.
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Hi Valke,

Another query:

If a person denied that God existed is that less worse than denying the full extent of the Shoah?

Is the Shoah more sacred than God?

God Bless,
 
JimR-OCDS said:
This only compounds the problem of the Pope lifting the excommunication in the first place.

I said before it was a mistake, this decision helps prove my case.

Jim
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So absolutely wrong. You and the media, the German Bishops and all who are believing lifting the excommunications were wrong because of the “holocause denying bishop” need to be re-educated in the Catholic Faith.

NO PERSON can be excomumunicated for this. Denying the holucaust has NOTHING TO DO with the Catholic Faith so lifting an excomunication does not depend on believing in the holocaust or not.

The liberals, pro gay and lesbian activists are having a field day with this one. The release of such information was even done by a pro-lesbian activist.

Ken
 
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