Vatican - Orthodox agree on primacy of Pope

[wynd]

It’s quite sad that you would not even trust your bishops as being led by the Holy Spirit at a council. If a council were to declare these “innovations” as truth you would even deny that council and the Holy Spirit?

Conversely, if the council were to declare these innovations as innovations and not truth, would you deny that council and the Holy Spirit?

 

[bogoljub]

It’s quite sad that you would not even trust your bishops as being led by the Holy Spirit at a council. If a council were to declare these “innovations” as truth you would even deny that council and the Holy Spirit?

God bless u!

I trust my Biishops ( they are against such union until now) but if they would agree on something contrary to the canons I have to sperate myself for not beiing also guilty. You know Bishops can errr and fall. How many Bishops were great heretics and how many councils were pseudo councils- do u know that there was a council wich forbid Icons and set all under anathema who venerated them ?

Anything contrary to a canon can not be a truth. Never !!

IN CHRIST, our true God

 

[Mannyfit75]

God bless u!

I trust my Biishops ( they are against such union until now) but if they would agree on something contrary to the canons I have to sperate myself for not beiing also guilty. You know Bishops can errr and fall. How many Bishops were great heretics and how many councils were pseudo councils- do u know that there was a council wich forbid Icons and set all under anathema who venerated them ?

Anything contrary to a canon can not be a truth. Never !!

IN CHRIST, our true God

Would you care to read the (if the unification was now) document of your bishops to explains their reasons for unification before becoming a schismatic?

 

[bogoljub]

Would you care to read the document of your bishops to explains their reasons for unification before becoming a schismatic?

God bless!

Of course I would, but it depends of what kind of union we are speaking of ! There can be many different !

In CHRIST

 

[Alexius]

They would have to make unity possible. I think the Pope wants it and so do many of the Eastern Orthodox Patriarchs. The Russian Patriarch also favors it but theologian issues need to be work out. Coming with a compromise on the papacy is the first step. I don’t think the unity will affect the traditions of the Eastern Orthodox since Vatican Council II made it similiar clear to the Eastern Rite Catholics that their traditions, liturgy, and other norms be preserved from any influence from Latinizing.

But then there is another problem. Our Eastern churches are so Latinized that it is easier said than done to change them. On top of that, the pressure to conform to the majority is overbearing. Even if this pope said to return to our Eastern traditions, what would stop the next pope from reversing this desire. Do you really think the Orthodox want to worry about the same thing happening to them?

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius

 

[Mannyfit75]

God bless!

Of course I would, but it depends of what kind of union we are speaking of ! There can be many different !

In CHRIST

Consider this scenario: All the Eastern Orthodox Bishops in an Ecumenical Synod fully agreed to unit with Rome on the condition that the Eastern Christians maintain all their beliefs, liturgy, practices and disciplines, without any influence of the Romans. Would you be for it?

 

[jam070406]

Conversely, if the council were to declare these innovations as innovations and not truth, would you deny that council and the Holy Spirit?

I guess I could handle it like the Orthodox people after Florence. Who denied some of the same truths (innovations to you) that came out of that council. Since then, according to Orthodox, the Holy Spirit no longer presides at councils but in the collective lay people after the council.

 

[Mannyfit75]

But then there is another problem. Our Eastern churches are so Latinized that it is easier said than done to change them. On top of that, the pressure to conform to the majority is overbearing. Even if this pope said to return to our Eastern traditions, what would stop the next pope from reversing this desire. Do you really think the Orthodox want to worry about the same thing happening to them?

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius

They wouldn’t be so Latinize if they come into agreement. So far the join Catholic-Orthodox document that the Eastern Orthodox agrees on the issue on papacy. The only problem now is how much authority did he had… We made one step towards unity… The only thing to do is to find a common agreement between two Churches.

It would be up to the laity of the Eastern Orthodox or not to accept the decision of the their bishops or Patriarchs.

 

[jam070406]

You know Bishops can errr and fall.

But you can’t.

 

[Mannyfit75]

But you can’t.

Let me quote **St. Ignatius of Antioch **(Eastern Father) concerning bishops and the laity:

Moreover, it is in accordance with reason that we should return to soberness [of conduct], and, while yet we have opportunity, exercise repentance towards God. It is well to reverence both God and the bishop. He who honours the bishop has been honoured by God; he who does anything without the knowledge of the bishop, does [in reality] serve the devil. Let all things, then, abound to you through grace, for you are worthy. You have refreshed me in all things, and Jesus Christ [shall refresh] you. You have** loved me when absent as well as when present. May God recompense you, for whose sake, while you endure all things, you shall attain unto Him**.

See that** you all follow the bishop**, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as you would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not lawful without the bishop either to baptize or to celebrate a love-feast; but whatsoever he shall approve of, that is also pleasing to God, so that everything that is done may be secure and valid.

If St. Ignatius of Antioch, an Bishop of Smyrna tells the Christians to be obedient to bishop. So you too, bojo, an Eastern Orthodox Christian show submit to your bishop decision.

 

[bogoljub]

But you can’t.

God bless u!

hahahahahaha that’s funny, thanks for making me laugh !

In CHRIST

 

[bogoljub]

Let me quote St. Ignatius of Antioch (Eastern Father) concerning bishops and the laity:

If St. Ignatius of Antioch, an Bishop of Smyrna tells the Christians to be obedient to bishop. So you too, an Eastern Orthodox Christian show submit to your bishop decision.

God bless !

I think we have discussed this topic before, but let me answer short again.
We should be obedient to our Bishop of course- that’s true but only since he is orthodox and follows the Tradition and the HOly Canons, when he does not anymore ( we such orthodox Bishops today) than we have to flee from him otherwise we would also be guilty - you must know this from church history !!

For example when your Bishop would start preaching for example the communion is not the real flesh and real blood of Christ what would u do ? Would u join anymore and be guilty of sharing this heresy or what ?

IN CHRIST

 

[Alexius]

They wouldn’t be so Latinize if they come into agreement. So far the join Catholic-Orthodox document that the Eastern Orthodox agrees on the issue on papacy. The only problem now is how much authority did he had… We made one step towards unity… The only thing to do is to find a common agreement between two Churches.

It would be up to the laity of the Eastern Orthodox or not to accept the decision of the their bishops or Patriarchs.

I’m talking about the Eastern Catholic churches being so Latinized, not the Orthodox.

 

[rockyankeeswon]

God bless !

I only want to say that there will be no UNIA - perhaps some local churches but not all. This Unia will only bring Schism and new Seperation !

Because orthodox can only accept unia when all innovations are put aside - I think this will never happen in rcc - so I can not really believe in an Re- Union.

In CHRIST

What innovations or core differences would have to be resolved before any unity could go forward?