Vatican planning to remove Eucharistic Prayers for Children

[Tantum_ergo]

As discussed in this article. catholicculture.org/news/features/index.cfm?recnum=60199

While I certainly want to see children fully participate in the liturgy (as I did back when dinosaurs ruled the earth despite the Mass being in Latin when I was very young, and in the form we currently know as I entered the teens–in those ‘in between years’ we certainly had full participation no matter what the language was), I disliked the “Eucharistic Prayers for Children” for precisely the reason given that they are now to be removed–a de-emphasis of the sacred due to the well-intentioned (but mistaken) belief on the part of some that children just would not be able to ‘understand’ such things and needed to have things put on ‘their’ level. To an extent, that is true–one does not try to teach a 1st grade class English composition by sitting them down with Shakespeare’s plays alone–but one does not either 'bowdlerize" Shakespeare to make his language the equivalent of that of a 6 year old, nor does one completely exclude him because ‘children will not understand’. They will not understand thoroughly but they will understand something, and the repetition as they grow older will make things more and more clear, and so they certainly need SOME exposure, and regularly.

To me, taking the Eucharistic Prayers and making separate ‘sets’ for children, using them for X number of years and then abruptly sending said child off and expecting them to suddenly be both familiar with, and appreciative of, “regular adult” prayers–and ‘regular adult concepts’ that they were unfamiliar with and probably viscerally disliked (because of the unfamiliarity, especially in the last few ‘me centered’ decades) was a very short-sighted move. I’m glad it is being corrected, but I’m glad, I think, for the right reason … . not because I ‘dislike’ the idea of children’s prayer per se, but because this particular concept was carried out badly. With good intentions. . .but badlyl

 

[porthos11]

The EP for children are really badly composed. I sure hope Rome withdraws them from circulation ASAP.

 

[japhy]

I’ve heard people on CAF tell stories of priests using these prayers for normal (i.e. non-children’s) Masses.

After looking at the three E.P.s for children, I’m puzzled at why they appear to invent a whole new liturgy of the Eucharist, with acclamations interspersed and what-not… as if we shouldn’t be trying to build up in our children an attention span of more than three sentences.

 

[benedictgal]

I’ve heard people on CAF tell stories of priests using these prayers for normal (i.e. non-children’s) Masses.

After looking at the three E.P.s for children, I’m puzzled at why they appear to invent a whole new liturgy of the Eucharist, with acclamations interspersed and what-not… as if we shouldn’t be trying to build up in our children an attention span of more than three sentences.

Unfortunately, in my diocese, there are some priests who use the EP for children even when kids don’t compose a majority of the faithful at Mass. My pastor has done this as did my dad’s former pastor. What is worse is hearing it in Spanish and thaving the celebrant give us a quizzical look as to why we don’t know the acclamations.

I would say that if the children needed an EP, then wny not use the Eucharistic Prayer written by St. Hipolytus, better known as EP II? It is brief and simple enough for them to understand without the extra acclamations. .

 

[japhy]

I’ve heard people on CAF tell stories of priests using these prayers for normal (i.e. non-children’s) Masses.

in my diocese, there are some priests who use the EP for children even when kids don’t compose a majority of the faithful at Mass.

Example found.

I would say that if the children needed an EP, then wny not use the Eucharistic Prayer written by St. Hipolytus, better known as EP II? It is brief and simple enough for them to understand without the extra acclamations.

Now, you see, that is a usage of E.P. II that I would support.

 

[benedictgal]

Now, you see, that is a usage of E.P. II that I would support.

Exactly. It is in language that is simple enough to understand. It’s funny. When my PV has celebrated Masses for the kids at one local Catholic school, he never uses the EPs for Chlidren. He uses EP II. Interestingly enough, I think that you could even use EP IV because it pretty much runs the course of salvation history.

 

[japhy]

I think that you could even use EP IV because it pretty much runs the course of salvation history.

I don’t want to get too far off-topic, but since you mentioned E.P. IV…

It (with its Preface) is a great (albeit brief) walk-through of salvation history, but my only real complaint with it is that I think it is an example of “if the people can hear it” syndrome. What I mean is, the Eucharistic Prayer is being spoken to God, Who already knows all about salvation history, not the people, who might need a refresher course. But I think E.P. IV (perhaps just in its current ICEL translation) comes off sounding too much like a refresher course for humans rather than a prayer praising God’s wonderful work of redemption.

Just like the Collect (and other prayers), when we pray to God and mention what He has done, we shouldn’t be saying it like we’re taking an oral exam in His presence and want to impress Him with our knowledge of Him. Instead, we should be using His mighty deeds sort of like a description (or sub-title) of Him.

I think E.P. IV is more geared toward the congregation than God because, since the E.P. is now spoken aloud, the congregation can hear it, and how long can a person listen to something being spoken to someone other than themselves? But I could be wrong.

 

[Corki]

Exactly. It is in language that is simple enough to understand. It’s funny. When my PV has celebrated Masses for the kids at one local Catholic school, he never uses the EPs for Chlidren. He uses EP II. Interestingly enough, I think that you could even use EP IV because it pretty much runs the course of salvation history.

My kids have been in two Catholic schools in this diocese and one in another. Their school Masses always use EP II, even though school Masses are places where the EP for Children’s Mass might have been appropriate. I wonder if the children’s EP is discouraged by the Catholic schools office. The only time I ever heard the EP for children’s Mass was at a Life Teen Mass. By the teen years, I would hope the kids could understand the “regular” Mass prayers.

 

[palmas85]

Well we can only hope that these things go away quickly along with all the other innovations, gathering in front of, beside behind and en-circling the altar etc etc etc.

 

[benedictgal]

In another thread, someone had mentioned that there were allowances in the Directory for Masses with Children for the kids to gather around the altar.

Having gone through the directory when I read this post, I could not find one such example. In fact, the directory makes an interesting observation:

1. It is always necessary to keep in mind that these Eucharistic Celebrations must lead children toward the celebration of Mass with adults, especially in the Masses at which the Christian community must come together on Sundays. [19] **Thus, apart from adaptations that are necessary because of the children’s age, the result should not be entirely special rites, markedly different from the Order of Mass celebrated with a congregation. [20] **The purpose of the various elements should always correspond with what is said in the General Instruction of the Roman Missal on individual points, even if at times for pastoral reasons an absolute identity cannot be insisted upon.

Now, here is something else to consider:

1. Parts of the Mass

1. The general structure of the Mass, which “is made up as it were of the liturgy of the word and the liturgy of the Eucharist,” should always be maintained, as should certain rites to open and conclude the celebration. [35] Within individual parts of the celebration, the adaptations that follow seem necessary if children are truly to experience, in their own way and according to the psychological patterns of childhood, “the mystery of faith . . . by means of rites and prayers.” [36]

1. Some rites and texts should never be adapted for children lest the difference between Masses with children and the Masses with adults becomes too pronounced. [37] these are “the acclamations and the responses to the priest’s greeting,” [38] the Lord’s Prayer, and the Trinitarian formulary at the end of the blessing with which the priest concludes the Mass. It is urged, moreover, that children should become accustomed to the Nicene Creed little by little, the right to use the Apostles’ Creed indicated in no. 49 remaining intact.

Section 39 would very well be one of the reasons why Rome has decided to remove the EPs for children since the language, itself, could be seen as not fully getting the message to the kids regarding the Institution of the Holy Eucharist.

 

[Asperges_Me]

The article stated that this item is now off the agenda for the USCCB November meeting. Well, that’s one less section to worry about for getting the whole Roman Missal translated. Just git 'er done!!!

 

[PacoG]

I don’t want to get too far off-topic, but since you mentioned E.P. IV…

It (with its Preface) is a great (albeit brief) walk-through of salvation history, but my only real complaint with it is that I think it is an example of “if the people can hear it” syndrome. What I mean is, the Eucharistic Prayer is being spoken to God, Who already knows all about salvation history, not the people, who might need a refresher course. But I think E.P. IV (perhaps just in its current ICEL translation) comes off sounding too much like a refresher course for humans rather than a prayer praising God’s wonderful work of redemption.

Just like the Collect (and other prayers), when we pray to God and mention what He has done, we shouldn’t be saying it like we’re taking an oral exam in His presence and want to impress Him with our knowledge of Him. Instead, we should be using His mighty deeds sort of like a description (or sub-title) of Him.

I think E.P. IV is more geared toward the congregation than God because, since the E.P. is now spoken aloud, the congregation can hear it, and how long can a person listen to something being spoken to someone other than themselves? But I could be wrong.

If I remember correctly, EP IV is taken from one of the Eastern Liturgies. It’s not entirely new. It’s new to the Roman Rite.

 

[bpbasilphx]

When I was teaching music in a Roman Catholic school, I found a special setting of a Children’s Anaphora, which called for the celebrant to sing part of it, and for Orff instruments.

So we did it the day before Thanksgiving.

It went over favorably. It’s not the kind of thing I’d want to hear Sunday after Sunday, and I’m not sure I’d find the Anaphora satisfactory now, but I thought I’d admit it here.

 

[Phemie]

I don’t want to get too far off-topic, but since you mentioned E.P. IV…

It (with its Preface) is a great (albeit brief) walk-through of salvation history, but my only real complaint with it is that I think it is an example of “if the people can hear it” syndrome. What I mean is, the Eucharistic Prayer is being spoken to God, Who already knows all about salvation history, not the people, who might need a refresher course. But I think E.P. IV (perhaps just in its current ICEL translation) comes off sounding too much like a refresher course for humans rather than a prayer praising God’s wonderful work of redemption.

Just like the Collect (and other prayers), when we pray to God and mention what He has done, we shouldn’t be saying it like we’re taking an oral exam in His presence and want to impress Him with our knowledge of Him. Instead, we should be using His mighty deeds sort of like a description (or sub-title) of Him.

I think E.P. IV is more geared toward the congregation than God because, since the E.P. is now spoken aloud, the congregation can hear it, and how long can a person listen to something being spoken to someone other than themselves? But I could be wrong.

You could look at it as letting God know that we recognize everything he has done for us.

In a course I took on the Mass a few years ago, the priest described the EPs as alternately flattering then petitioning God, a very human thing – kind of like a child that tells mom she’s the most beautiful just before asking for a treat.

 

[Corki]

The article stated that this item is now off the agenda for the USCCB November meeting. Well, that’s one less section to worry about for getting the whole Roman Missal translated. Just git 'er done!!!

Let’s hope so but the cynical side of me worries that this might be used as an excuse to wait longer to finally get the new translation to us to be used.

 

[Thunderbird]

Silly ignorant me, I wasn’t aware there was a Eucharistic Prayer for children… though I suppose it doesn’t matter either way, since a.) I’m not a child, b.) I don’t have a child, and c.) they’re removing them anyway.

 

[Aramis]

Remember: The Divine Worship Service, be it the Roman Mass, the Maronite Quorbono, or the Coptic or Byzantine Divine Liturgies, serves 3 purposes:

1. To provide a means to Worship God, in thanks for all that he has given us.
2. To instruct the faithful in the faith, that they may be saved
3. To participate in the perpetual Sacrifice of Christ that the faithful come to be saved.

One of the issues identified in the Vatican II process was that the whole instructive issue was ignored in the Roman Rite in practice.

EP IV is very instructive. It also is very much a way of worshiping God, by calling to mind all that he has done for us all.

 

[NicPais83]

I’m sorta of the opinion that there are currently too many Eucharistic Prayers in the Roman Missal. I know that most of us like to entertain thoughts along the lines of “if I were the one making the decision…” and such, but I really feel that the Roman Canon, Eucharistic Prayer I, is the most authentic of the Eucharistic Prayers. I don’t mean that they aren’t all equally as valid, because they are all valid, but it isn’t as polished as the others, and refers to the Diocese of Rome through its litanies of saints.

That being said, if it were up to me, I would prefer that they limit the number of Eucharistic Prayers to the core four. Now, there are rules in place for using II (weekday Masses) and IV (Masses without a specific preface), and III is supposed to be an alternative to I, but I would like to see Eucharistic Prayer I being sorta the preferred, perhaps for like the major Masses on Sunday, and then have III used for the smaller Sunday Masses. That’s my take.

 

[Nickkname]

The Eucharistic Prayers for Children are not good (I just read them). The Priest is suppose to be praying to God, not teaching children. I mean, that’s what Religious Education is for: to teach the children.

 

[James0235]

Well, its seems to me that the Eucharistic Prayers for children are a little redundant anyway. EP II already fulfills the role of dumbing down the faith.

(Hopefully EP II will be the next to go )

James