Vatican Policy on Homosexual Seminarians Due Tomorrow?

[Brad]

cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=40530

“Vatican officials have also been under heavy pressure, particularly from American Church officials, to produce something short of an absolute ban on homosexual seminarians.”

Dear God,

Please ignore “American Church officials”.

 

[oat_soda]

image how many of the bishops are gay. look at what that usccb guy bishop slydslat or something said about how the document will be nuanced and there should not be a witch hunt. how can something so simple like keeping homosexuals out of the preisthood take such a long time to figure out??

 

[contemplative]

Fr. McBrien will have to change the angle in his column for next week …from semi-smug to defensive again.

Document may not ban gays in seminaries
http://www.catholiccourier.com/images/spacer.gif
(Publication Date: 11-02-2005)
It is always a risk for a once-a-week columnist, writing two or three weeks in advance of publication, to comment on a still-developing story. In this case, the story concerns the apostolic visitation of U.S. seminaries, which is already under way.

Grave concerns were being expressed a few weeks ago about the goals of this visitation, and specifically whether there would be a papal mandate to identify and expel gay seminarians and to prohibit their admission to seminaries, whether sexually active or not. Read more…

 

[harinkj]

What is the best source for news on documents like this one when they are released?

• Kathie :bowdown:

 

[contemplative]

harinkj:

What is the best source for news on documents like this one when they are released?

• Kathie :bowdown:

You can get good, reliable Catholic newstories at CWNews
cwnews.com/
Because I subscribe, I receive email alerts when something ‘big’ has happened…
The volume on my computer is almost to the maximum today…I don’t want to be on the other side of the house and miss if and when this particular email alert comes today.
Zenit.org is another good source of Catholic news.
EWTN.com has good news.
There is catholicnewsagency.com/
and don’t forget to check here…there will be many people talking about it immediately…

 

[tossolul]

I am praying that there is not a ban placed on homosexuals. Homosexuality is a sin…We all sin. We all need to ask God for forgiveness. Whether you are heterosexual, or homosexual you have the same chance of being tempted by the sin of lust. The only difference is that in being homosexual they would be sinning if they lived out their lives following their desires where as heterosexuals wouldn’t…so they choose the path of God and serving him…seemingly the only way they can be fullfilled. If you take this away from them we are not only hurting our church, but placing them in greater temptation to live a life of sin in the world. Homosexuality is a sin…we all sin, and we are taught not to judge others of their sins but to leave that to God. The ratio of molestation in the priesthood is no greater than several other areas…it is just more publicized by the media.

To me…it seems that if a person has SSA, the only logical way to follow God is to take a vow of chastity in the priesthood or as a nun. If we take this away from them, I believe we are making a grave mistake.

Yes, these priests have made grave mistakes. They are human, not God, and the closer and more Good one is capable of doing to and for God…the more intensely the devil targets their weeknesses. I believe that any person who feels the calling to follow God through a religious vocation needs to be given a chance and not turned away because of who they are. God looks at our hearts, I think our world needs to start looking at things this way also.

 

[Libero]

how can something so simple like keeping homos out of the preisthood take such a long time to figure out??

Homos? Nice language. This may be as keeping homosexuals out of the church is not the Vaticans wish or aim…

If the church is reaching a conclusion tomorrow, or so specualted here, does that mean they have completed their inspection of seminaries?

 

[oat_soda]

To me…it seems that if a person has SSA, the only logical way to follow God is to take a vow of chastity in the priesthood or as a nun. If we take this away from them, I believe we are making a grave mistake.

would you let a manic depressive into the priesthood? what about a pedophile? or a schizophrenic? i would say they all have disorders either sexual or mental and they are not fit for the priesthood. a priest should sacrifice marriage and a wife for the priesthood. for a homosexual, neither are sacrificed.

 

[harinkj]

oat soda:

would you let a manic depressive into the priesthood? what about a pedophile? or a schizophrenic? i would say they all have disorders either sexual or mental and they are not fit for the priesthood. a priest should sacrifice marriage and a wife for the priesthood. for a homosexual, neither are sacrificed.

Actually in Massachusetts wouldn’t they be sacrificing marriage?

• Kathie :bowdown:

 

[Brad]

tossolul:

I am praying that there is not a ban placed on homosexuals.

I’m not.

I will quote what I posted on the article:

Nice to see that the “American Church officials” would rather protect the homosexual subculture in the church than protect the faithful’s tythes (in additional millions to find the “cause” of the scandal) or the faithful’s children(in forcing sex-education “abuse training” on Catholic school children) or the faithful’s sacred marriages (in not standing up against the re-defintion of marriage). Lord please give us faithful shepherds to replace the opponents of the faithful.

If the homosexuals and their sympathizers in the priesthood have such blinders on as to make life difficult for orthodox Catholic families to be Catholic, then they should not be further increasing their numbers.

 

[Arba_Sicula]

Brad:

If the homosexuals and their sympathizers in the priesthood have such blinders on as to make life difficult for orthodox Catholic families to be Catholic,

How is an orthodox Catholic family prevented from practicing its faith just because of some homosexuals in the priesthood? (I’m not speaking of paedophiles, but of ordinary homosexuals).

 

[harinkj]

nationalcatholicreporter.org/word/

Gives the latest. It appears that the report will come out near the end of November.

• Kathie :bowdown:

 

[tossolul]

oat soda:

would you let a manic depressive into the priesthood? what about a pedophile? or a schizophrenic? i would say they all have disorders either sexual or mental and they are not fit for the priesthood. a priest should sacrifice marriage and a wife for the priesthood. for a homosexual, neither are sacrificed.

I don’t believe the things you mention are comparable with SSA. Same sex attraction is simply that…you feel attracted to someone of the same sex. Does that equal schizophrenia, pedophilia, or manic depressive behaviour? This is not a valid comparison.

Someone who has SSA, or homosexual tendencies is not any different mentally than a heterosexual in thinking -except for the fact that they are attracted and feel drawn to people of the same sex. These people who have SSA, and realize it is not how God intended us to live are in actuality carrying a huge cross for Christ when they give up this desire and instead pursue the priesthood and God. However, they are human…and we all know that humans are not perfect. I’d also like to remention the fact that since their role is so important in serving God and setting an example, they are a prime target of the evil ones’ temptations.

What we need to be doing is supporting the Church, and God…loving our neighbor and not judging others for their sins…unless of course we ourselves have never commited one. What some of these men did is very wrong. They sinned, and they need to ask forgiveness from the people they offended and from God. I believe it very wrong however to group all homosexuals into this catagory- especially on such a vital issue as allowing them to become priests. There are many heterosexuals who are promiscuous and don’t follow God…does this mean that we should not allow any heterosexuals into the priesthood also???

A priest needs to make a vow of chastity for the priesthood. That means living your life for God, and only God. It says nothing about specifically needing to sacrifice a ‘wife’ or ‘marraige’ to fullfll this title.

On a side note there are instances where priests are allowed to be married-

 

[contemplative]

November 4, 2005

Seminary document: not yet

 

[Brad]

Arba Sicula:

How is an orthodox Catholic family prevented from practicing its faith just because of some homosexuals in the priesthood? (I’m not speaking of paedophiles, but of ordinary homosexuals).

I didn’t say they were prevented. I said they were making their lives more difficult for the reasons that I mentioned.

For example, I have a difficult time knowing how much to tythe to the Church when that money is being wasted due to abuse scandals, meaningless studies, and finds it’s way into organizations that support homosexual adoption.

I also have a difficult time sending my child to a Catholic school when there is a chance that child will be exposed to sex education (“sex abuse training”) at an early age.

Further, I have a difficult time lifting up marriage by promoting the true and sacred union between man and women because there are many in the marriage preperation program that have no issue with homosexual unions and many in the Church that refuse to teach the Church’s teaching on marriage.

These things alone will shake the faith of many.

Last week’s readings were spot on:

“You have turned aside from the way and have caused many to falter by your instruction; you have made void the covenant of Levi, says the Lord of hosts. I therefore, have made you contemptible and base before all the people, since you do not keep my ways, but show partiality in your decisions.”
(Malachi 1 and 2)

"Therefore, do and observe all things whatsoever they tell you, but do not follow their example. For they preach but they do not practice. They tie up heavy burdens hard to carry and lay them on people’s shoulders, but they will not lift a finger to move them. All their works are performed to be seen. They widen their phylacteries and lengthen their tassels. They love places of honor at banquets, seats of honor in synagogues, greetings in marketplaces, and the salutation ‘Rabbi.’ "

(Mathew 23)

 

[tossolul]

"Therefore, do and observe all things whatsoever they tell you, but do not follow their example. (Mathew 23)

This to me is the perfect example of God telling us he has called these priests as they are- human/imperfect- to preach His word which is Perfect. We are to follow their preaching of God and His Word, but we are to only look to God not the human. We are not to follow these ‘priests’ example, because they are not perfect…no priest has ever been perfect. God gave us His Son and His Word for this purpose. We are to follow Jesus’ example of Self sacrifice, suffering, and perfection…that is Why He came

 

[tossolul]

Just some thoughts…

Give until it hurts…Give of your time, your gifts, your knowledge, your money. It is when you think you have no more to give, that the Giving has actually begun.

Support the Church…and it will support you when you are the one being judged.

 

[oat_soda]

I don’t believe the things you mention are comparable with SSA. Same sex attraction is simply that…you feel attracted to someone of the same sex. Does that equal schizophrenia, pedophilia, or manic depressive behaviour? This is not a valid comparison.

homosexuality is inheirently disordered and is not normal or healthy. does this mean they are too evil or not good enough to be priests? -no. a man who isn’t sexually attracted to women will not be a good leader and the sacrifice of giving up marriage and a wife is necessary to be a good priest. gay priests will confuse the faithful on why the church requires celibacy for most of its priests. it gives the impression that only gays or eunichs become priests and this scares away young men interested in the priesthood.

besides, look at all of the trouble homo-priests have brought to the church. they did it to themselves. if there was no sex abuse crisis, maybe homos would be able to be priests.

the bottom line is it doesn’t matter what you or i think. but i’m sure the document will pretty much bar homos from the priesthood. we’ll just have to wait and see.

 

[tossolul]

oat soda:

homosexuality is inheirently disordered and is not normal or healthy. does this mean they are too evil or not good enough to be priests? -no. a man who isn’t sexually attracted to women will not be a good leader and the sacrifice of giving up marriage and a wife is necessary to be a good priest. gay priests will confuse the faithful on why the church requires celibacy for most of its priests. it gives the impression that only gays or eunichs become priests and this scares away young men interested in the priesthood.

besides, look at all of the trouble homo-priests have brought to the church. they did it to themselves. if there was no sex abuse crisis, maybe homos would be able to be priests.

the bottom line is it doesn’t matter what you or i think. but i’m sure the document will pretty much bar homos from the priesthood. we’ll just have to wait and see.

I guess with charity- I will just disagree with your opinion.

 

[m134e5]

oat soda:

how can something so simple like keeping homosexuals out of the preisthood take such a long time to figure out??

Because it is not so simple. Homosexuals are human beings, and are to be treated with dignity and compassion. You can’t just start enforcing policies that haven’t been enforced and say “sorry guys- we’re doing things different now- go away”. What do they do about men who are already seminarians, who may be even about to be ordained? Kick them out? No- it isn’t that simple- they need to be responded to with compassion.

CCC 2358- The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. [They do not choose their homosexual condition; for most of them it is a trial.] This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

CCC 2359- Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

The gay lifestyle is full of self-pity, narcissism, and anger. The priesthood is a life of self-denial, penance, and prayer. While the priesthood is not something you do to try and cure something- it is service to God and to the Church, everyone has a calling that will help them work out their salvation.