VATICAN - Pope: the heart of Christians "is built on the rock" and not "plastered over" in a "cast" of discipline" [AN]

[agnes_therese]

Altering fasting rules is one thing. Telling Catholics who have committed gravely sinful acts, and have not repented with firm purpose of amendment, that they are free to receive the Eucharist is another.

And who (in authority) is doing that?

 

[ProVobis]

When fasting becomes a contest with comparison to others it fails in its purpose. What exactly is the purpose of the fast? Is it not to make one mindful of our emptiness without Christ?

Does there have to be an explainable purpose? It seems God didn’t state His purpose behind prohibiting Adam and Eve the eating from a certain tree.

 

[LongingSoul]

Does there have to be an explainable purpose? It seems God didn’t state His purpose behind prohibiting Adam and Eve the eating from a certain tree.

You wouldn’t be chucked out of Church if you received 5 or 10 minutes short of the hour though. There’s a difference between a discipline and a prohibition of the sort demonstrated by Adam and Eves instruction.

 

[Michael_Mayo]

Does there have to be an explainable purpose? It seems God didn’t state His purpose behind prohibiting Adam and Eve the eating from a certain tree.

It also seems Jesus didn’t tell us to fast before Communion…

Yes, it has been a Church discipline and that is fine. But if we are to inform our conscience it is ok to ask why rather than just do something without purpose.

The most important point regarding this question concerns why we ought to fast. St. Paul reminds us, “Continually we carry about in our bodies the dying of Jesus, so that in our bodies the life of Jesus may also be revealed” (II Cor 4:10). We, too, are charged to convert our whole lives — body and soul — to the Lord. This conversion process involves doing penance — including bodily mortification like fasting — for our sins and weaknesses, which in turn strengthens and heals us. Pope Paul VI exhorted the faithful in his apostolic constitution “Paenitemini” (1966), “Mortification aims at the ‘liberation’ of man, who often finds himself, because of concupiscence, almost chained by his own senses. Through ‘corporal fasting’ man regains strength, and the wound inflicted on the dignity of our nature by intemperance is cured by the medicine of a salutary abstinence.”

Moreover, the fast before receiving holy Communion creates a physical hunger and thirst for the Lord, which in turn augments the spiritual hunger and thirst we ought to have.

holyspiritinteractive.net/columns/williamsaunders/straightanswers/104.asp

Fasting can be tricky. We can easily start to feel self righteous and look down on others.

Luke 18:11-14
The Pharisee took up his position and spoke this prayer to himself, ‘O God, I thank you that I am not like the rest of humanity - greedy, dishonest, adulterous - or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week, and I pay tithes on my whole income.’
But the tax collector stood off at a distance and would not even raise his eyes to heaven but beat his breast and prayed, ‘O God, be merciful to me a sinner.’

I tell you, the latter went home justified, not the former; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and the one who humbles himself will be exalted."

Matthew 9:13
Go and learn the meaning of the words, ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice.’ I did not come to call the righteous but sinners."

 

[FollowChrist34]

When fasting becomes a contest with comparison to others it fails in its purpose. What exactly is the purpose of the fast? Is it not to make one mindful of our emptiness without Christ?

Let me put in a good word for fasting. It does help. It strengthens you to resist inner temptation, controlling anger, pride, lust, despair, anxiety, etc. (I have done it in the past; I have slipped and am not doing it now. I go through periods of doing it.) Even the Desert Fathers didn’t fast to the point where they became too ill or weak to function - excessive fasting is a form of pride and abuse of the discipline. Discipline is never about proving to others or to the secular world that you are a good Christian/Catholic; it’s a means to become a better one, if you are doing it in humility rather than pride. I personally think it’s more effective done on your own preferably with very few even knowing about it, rather than making it another rule that we get to follow, cherish, and, best of all, talk a lot about.

 

[LongingSoul]

I personally think it’s more effective done on your own preferably with very few even knowing about it, rather than making it another rule that we get to follow, cherish, and, best of all, talk a lot about.

St Matthew reports a similar thought…

“When you fast, do not look somber as the hypocrites do, for they disfigure their faces to show others they are fasting. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. But when you fast, put oil on your head and wash your face, so that it will not be obvious to others that you are fasting, but only to your Father, who is unseen; and your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. - Matt 6:16-18

 

[FollowChrist34]

St Matthew reports a similar thought…

“When you fast, do not look somber as the hypocrites do, for they disfigure their faces to show others they are fasting. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. But when you fast, put oil on your head and wash your face, so that it will not be obvious to others that you are fasting, but only to your Father, who is unseen; and your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. - Matt 6:16-18

 

[ProVobis]

You wouldn’t be chucked out of Church if you received 5 or 10 minutes short of the hour though. There’s a difference between a discipline and a prohibition of the sort demonstrated by Adam and Eves instruction.

The point was one of explanation for the fast or prohibition. Rationalize all you want to break the rules, whatever they may be. As the comic Fr. Sarducci noted some time back, we tend to “weasel and maneuver” our way in the confessional, hinting perhaps we’ll try the same when we stand before God?

 

[Elizium23]

The Church just needs to recognize authentic doctrine, and apply it to modern situations.

Oh, thank you, sir, for telling the Church how to recognize authentic doctrine! What would we do without your divine revelations to set straight the Bride of Christ?

 

[LongingSoul]

The point was one of explanation for the fast or prohibition. Rationalize all you want to break the rules, whatever they may be. As the comic Fr. Sarducci noted some time back, we tend to “weasel and maneuver” our way in the confessional, hinting perhaps we’ll try the same when we stand before God?

It’s good to just be obedient without question, but bad when your lack of understanding of the nature of a rule leads you away from its goal. If someone held back from Holy Communion because they were 5 minutes short of the hour fast… that would be bad. If someone believes that they can have sex once they are engaged because that’s pretty much married… that’s bad. What makes the difference is the nature of the rule. One is a discipline with some leeway and the other is a mortal sin gravely contrary to the dignity of persons and of human sexuality.

Proper explanation can protect the integrity of the rule to be observed.

 

[Elizium23]

Why would it be bad? A spiritual communion is available to him or her. Most Catholics have the opportunity to receive Holy Communion on all kinds of schedules, around the clock every day. Someone who is five minutes short of an hour fast can simply wait until the next Mass that day and receive, if he or she wants it badly enough. I see it as a moral good to observe fasting laws, especially such a minimum one that, in practice, only prohibits eating during the Mass itself.

 

[LongingSoul]

Why would it be bad? A spiritual communion is available to him or her. Most Catholics have the opportunity to receive Holy Communion on all kinds of schedules, around the clock every day. Someone who is five minutes short of an hour fast can simply wait until the next Mass that day and receive, if he or she wants it badly enough. I see it as a moral good to observe fasting laws, especially such a minimum one that, in practice, only prohibits eating during the Mass itself.

The point is that with the one hour fast rule it is not necessary to count seconds. That is not in the spirit of the rule. This is opposed to the pre-marital sex prohibition which itself is a moral principle not a discipline serving a principle.

If you set out to observe the one hour fast with the proper disposition and for some reason Mass was short… father feeling unwell skipped the homily say… it is not necessary to not receive because of a matter of minutes or seconds. The same could not be said of sex if the marriage were unexpectedly delayed.

 

[tryphon]

Pope Francis is a breath of fresh air. His words throw light on many shadows that were darkening our Church. Just like St. Francis, he is bringing a new vitality to the Church. We should all be grateful for such a wonderful and corageous Pope.

 

[ProVobis]

The point is that with the one hour fast rule it is not necessary to count seconds. That is not in the spirit of the rule. …

If you set out to observe the one hour fast with the proper disposition and for some reason Mass was short… father feeling unwell skipped the homily say… it is not necessary to not receive because of a matter of minutes or seconds.

Your comparison is valid. However, your argument about fasting seems to agree with my earlier claim that there is essentially no real or hard fast rule anymore, since most Masses (at least on Sunday) are about an hour long plus travel time. Unless, as Elizium suggests, one forms a habit of eating while the Mass is going on. An hour before the Mass start time would serve as a better fast IMO but since no one takes a fast seriously anyway why bother making it tougher.